team3s             Thursday, May 11 2000             Volume 01 : Number 132

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 00:53:29 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: TMO cable

Jeff,

> I have not had good luck with the cable. When I first received
> it last year it quit working pretty soon. I suspected static
> shock or broken wire, but could not confirm this by inspecting
> the unit (I'm sure you've looked inside also).

No, there was no need for this so far. What I usually do is to remove the
key and then insert the 12V and the plug to the port (I use the lower right
free one in the fuse box. Then I connect it to the notebook. I never had
problems with three different notebooks either if they were already running
or not. Finally I start the car and hit the connect button... null problemo
:) Hope you'll find the same good behaviour when you get it.

> If I remember correctly, you were working on a replacement for
> the TMO. Is that project still on?

No, absolutely not. There was just a discussion on that as Todd doesn't move
a finger to help us with the 3S problems (timing, 2 O2 sensors, etc.) Also
new version will probbaly never see the light so we jsut have to live with
that. I'm ways away from programming right now as my last program written in
C++ was about 8 years ago.

Roger
93'3000GT TT


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 16:26:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: TMO cable

Roger,

That's the same proceedure I use. Plus I just leave it all
connected after I'm done with car when I'm doing a lot of
testing. I do use a different fuse in the junction box, #8,
which is ignition switched, or when I'm not lazy I draw power
from a wire (that supplies most of my gauges) that connects to
C-59 pin 4. I have described all my actions to Todd and he
doesn't see that I'm doing anything wrong. I guess I've just
been unlucky (well 2 of the dozens of times I've used it).
Thanks for the feedback.

Jeff Lucius

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: "Team3S" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: TMO cable

Jeff,

> I have not had good luck with the cable. When I first received
> it last year it quit working pretty soon. I suspected static
> shock or broken wire, but could not confirm this by inspecting
> the unit (I'm sure you've looked inside also).

No, there was no need for this so far. What I usually do is to
remove the key and then insert the 12V and the plug to the port
(I use the lower right free one in the fuse box. Then I connect
it to the notebook. I never had problems with three different
notebooks either if they were already running or not. Finally I
start the car and hit the connect button... null problemo :)
Hope you'll find the same good behaviour when you get it.

Roger
93'3000GT TT

__________________________________________________
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***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 18:35:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Team3S: Boost levels

Just got the car back from the turbo upgrade...seems to run just fine.

But now if I step onit..and ride WOT, the OEM boost guage now only reads
up to about 8psi.


WTF?

I at least expect it to peg-out as inaccurately as it USED to do...ideas?

- ---
I LUV YOU VIRUS UPDATE!

*Are you really that lonely and _pathetic_ that you decided to open an attachment listed as
a love letter from nobody you know?  This isnt a virus thats choking Email server, its
intelligently deciding who should have thier computers taken away by force.
- ---


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 18:40:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Team3S: Water injection mounting..

Im not in the mood to reinvent our battery, and Im having a tough time
with alternate locations to mount the res. for the water.

Any other ideas?

- ---
I LUV YOU VIRUS UPDATE!

*Are you really that lonely and _pathetic_ that you decided to open an attachment listed as
a love letter from nobody you know?  This isnt a virus thats choking Email server, its
intelligently deciding who should have thier computers taken away by force.
- ---


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 21:36:27 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: AWD Racing drivers  - Read please

>I agree that putting our AWD cars against back 1/2 Rear Wheel Drive or
>tube frame cars is not a fair competition for our average AWD car.
>Please send your opinion to GSXCOP95@aol.com
>Arty 91 VR-4
>
We don't have such problems in open tracking. It's run what you brung, and
you are classified according to your on-track experience. Nobody
discriminates against AWD cars.

Rich/old poop/94 VR4

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 21:58:07 -0500
From: "Oskar" <swede@pclink.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water injection mounting..

You can get a smaller battery such as the Odyssey ($159 from www.jegs.com).
This is the same battery as the now discontinued Black Panther.

Oskar
'95 R/T TT
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To: <team3s@www.speedtoys.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 8:40 PM
Subject: Team3S: Water injection mounting..


> Im not in the mood to reinvent our battery, and Im having a tough time
> with alternate locations to mount the res. for the water.
>
> Any other ideas?
>
> ---
> I LUV YOU VIRUS UPDATE!
>
> *Are you really that lonely and _pathetic_ that you decided to open an
attachment listed as
> a love letter from nobody you know?  This isnt a virus thats choking Email
server, its
> intelligently deciding who should have thier computers taken away by
force.
> ---
>
>
> ***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
>


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 23:10:15 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Testing Day for camber plates

We went testing today at the Marshalltown International Speedway, and I
finally got a chance to test Brad's Big Red brake conversion kit, the new
camber plates, and the suspension settings.

We rented the track ($50 per car, up from last year), and I ran about 75
laps. It was a nice warm day, and I could run about 10-12 laps at a time
before the temperature gauge crept up toward hot.

Brad's brakes WORK! No fade, solid stops from 70+ mph and -- wonder of
wonders -- no clouds of black brake dust. I have air ducts, but we don't go
fast enough at Marshalltown (0.7 mile, 13 turns, 55 mph average) to really
cool the brakes down, and I didn't use my water injection (didn't need
it!). That means the brakes were working just fine, all by themselves,
without any real cooling to speak of.

When I run the Pagid Blacks on the street, they generate gobs of black
dust. Today, nearly no dust. I don't know if this is because they are
finally bedded in, or if they dust badly when street cold, or what. I
haven't checked the pads for wear yet.

The brakes did not contribute to any lap time improvements. Our stock
brakes stop the car pretty dang good, they just don't stop the car very
often. Brad's brakes were installed to improve longevity of pads and stop
fading.

We had a problem with a mysterious loss of brake fluid. My BRAKE light was
on nearly the entire time, because of a low brake fluid reservoir. No leaks
show on the ground, and I couldn't see anything with a cursory check. It
will go back on the alignment rack soon, and we'll check the system. When
we installed Brad's kit, we also installed his SS lines front and rear, and
one might be leaking.

We installed camber plates 3 weeks ago, and set the camber to one degree
negative in the front, with +0.15 deg toe. When we used a pryrometer on the
tires today, the right side fronts read within 5 deg across, with the
inside and outside exactly the same (190 deg) and the center 5 deg lower.
My instructor consultant said that was perfect. The left sides were about
165 deg, also within 5 deg on all three readings. Marshalltown has mostly
left turns, which puts all the stress on the right front, so it reads
higher temps.

So, for what it's worth, a setting of minus 1 deg camber, +0.15 toe and
maximum castor seems to work pretty well, at least on a low-speed track.

We'll test again at the next big road course event but, for now, I think
I'll leave the settings alone. On the advice of several folks here, I plan
to put the bump stops back in and get the car realigned, but we'll stick
with those settings.

Results? When I ran Marshalltown last year, I got down to 42.1 sec, running
mostly in the mid 42s. Today, I was lapping in the low 41 second range,
once dipping into the 40s. So, the suspension and camber plates are good
for about one second off on a 0.7 mile course.

Rich/old poop/94 VR4
Eibachs, lowered, Ground Control camber kit, Big Red Porsche Turbo
calipers, Pagid Blacks, air ducts, SS brake lines, water injection brake
cooling, Yoko 032R tires, stock engine.

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 21:19:20 -0700
From: vect0r0 <vect0r0@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Team3S: Ok. My 1st ENGINE TROUBLE post. HELP!

Alright..  I let me cousin borrow my car (1st mistake), a 1992 Stealth
TT with 15G's and all necessary electronics/fuel/intake/injectors etc.
I've never had trouble with the engine before but today, I started up my
car and the motor starts to make a clanking sound.  When I rev it up, I
get some HARD banging noises from what seems to be the rear bank of
cylinders.  It's random in occurance, and sound, but it doesn't sound
very good.

I took it down the street, and it's LOUD...  Clanging and banging around
it seems.  I tried some boost (maybe not a good idea) just to see if it
would rev up some and it seems to go up in RPM and boost just fine, but
the banging around in the engine compartment continues to be loud.

What is weird, tho, is that I can FEEL the engine in my clutch petal as
well.  When I let it out slowly while decelerating, I can feel a rapid
"clank."  My clutch is old, tired, and needed to be replaced quite a
while ago.  But I'm not too savy with engine troubles, and haven't ruled
out a worn out clutch/flywheel/bearing.

If anyone would have some ideas, I would greatly appreciate it.  This
sounds serious to me and need to be prepared for the worst.  Any
possible ideas as to the cause of the noise, or (if the block isn't
mared) what kind of a price it's gonna be to replace the pistons/etc.?
Thank you very much for any advice.

John

As on now, Twin Turbo-less..... :(


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 20:42:30 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Testing Day for camber plates

Merritt wrote:

> We rented the track ($50 per car, up from last year), and I ran about 75
> laps. It was a nice warm day, and I could run about 10-12 laps at a time
> before the temperature gauge crept up toward hot.

Hmmmm !!!!  I don't have any laps when outside temp is hot but I've not heard
anyone complain about overheating at speed. Have you flushed the system or
tried one of the water wetters [ redline makes one ] ???
===================================================

> When I run the Pagid Blacks on the street, they generate gobs of black
> dust. Today, nearly no dust. I don't know if this is because they are
> finally bedded in, or if they dust badly when street cold, or what. I
> haven't checked the pads for wear yet.

I had the pagid blacks and agree about the damn black dust --- they also
chewed up a set of rotors in short order. I now have the Porterfield [ non-
cryo --- I was in a rush ] and the R4 pads. Dust is no longer a problem and
I don't have enough time on them to see how they affect the rotors.
======================================================
>
> We installed camber plates 3 weeks ago, and set the camber to one degree
> negative in the front, with +0.15 deg toe. When we used a pryrometer on the
> tires today, the right side fronts read within 5 deg across, with the
> inside and outside exactly the same (190 deg) and the center 5 deg lower.
> My instructor consultant said that was perfect. The left sides were about
> 165 deg, also within 5 deg on all three readings. Marshalltown has mostly
> left turns, which puts all the stress on the right front, so it reads
> higher temps.

I have a write-up done for Tire Rack about measuring tire temps if you're
interested --- just let me know and I'll forward it to you.


         Jim berry





***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 05:58:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water injection mounting.

I think Matt at Dynamic Racing uses the rear washer bottle,
Roger G. uses the European headlight washer bottle (in front
fender), Mikael A. moved the battery to the rear compartment,
and others use the front washer bottle. I am planning to add
this upgrade next year so I am also interested in
responses/solutions [pun intended :)].

PS. another Team3S address change?

Jeff Lucius, 3SI #476
Red 1992 Stealth TT - modified
  --> http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To: <team3s@www.speedtoys.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 7:40 PM
Subject: Team3S: Water injection mounting..

Im not in the mood to reinvent our battery, and Im having a
tough time with alternate locations to mount the res. for the
water.

Any other ideas?


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:10:38 -0500
From: "Brett Russell" <brussell@powercom.net>
Subject: Team3S: Gas cover release

Hey all, I'm having a bit of a problem with my 3000 this morning; my gas
tank cover won't open.  I can hear the sound like it's releasing when I pull
the lever all the way up (it only makes the sound at the very last point,
not as soon as I lift it like my Stealth did), but the cover stays in place.
It's still attached, as I cannot gently pry it open, but if I press on it I
hear a click like it's reattaching.  I took apart the lever assembly last
night in hopes that I just needed to adjust something, but I didn't see
anyplace to tighten the cable or anything.  Has anyone experienced anything
like this?  I fear I may have to take it to our town Dodge dealership, as my
Mitsubishi dealer is ~60 miles away and I don't have enough gas to get
there.  Does anyone have any ideas on how I could fix this myself?

Thanks,

Brett


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 15:40:28 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water injection mounting..

> Im not in the mood to reinvent our battery, and Im having a tough time
> with alternate locations to mount the res. for the water.

This highly depends on what system is mounted. We also have a water bottle
in the rear for the washer that is almost never used. But it is small and
I'm not sure if it has a level sensor. If you use the pre-pressurized system
then you cannot use a normal bottle.

Roger
93'3000GT TT


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 07:29:04 -0700
From: jeff.mohler@netapp.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Water injection mounting.

No..not another address change..whoops!

I just send the team3s mail from my account on the server which hosts the domo
list..thats all.  (its still a valid address..that and many others are just
virtuals domains being served)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Lucius [mailto:stealthman92@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 5:59 AM
To: team3s@www.speedtoys.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water injection mounting.


I think Matt at Dynamic Racing uses the rear washer bottle,
Roger G. uses the European headlight washer bottle (in front
fender), Mikael A. moved the battery to the rear compartment,
and others use the front washer bottle. I am planning to add
this upgrade next year so I am also interested in
responses/solutions [pun intended :)].

PS. another Team3S address change?

Jeff Lucius, 3SI #476
Red 1992 Stealth TT - modified
  --> http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To: <team3s@www.speedtoys.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 7:40 PM
Subject: Team3S: Water injection mounting..

Im not in the mood to reinvent our battery, and Im having a
tough time with alternate locations to mount the res. for the
water.

Any other ideas?


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 10:57:28 -0400
From: "Heikki Pikkujamsa" <hpikkujamsa@compuserve.com>
Subject: Team3S: SX FPR

Does any of you have installed SX FPR? I plan to feed both fuel rails from
the left side, then connect the FPR directly to the other end of rails. But
there is very limited space between the rear turbo pipe/upper intake
manifold and I might not be able to squeeze the FPR between them. Any ideas?
I'd rather not run fuel hoses around the engine bay if I can avoid it.

Heikki
'92 R/T TT


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:23:42 -0700
From: jeff.mohler@netapp.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Water injection mounting..

I guess you missed the.."> Im not in the mood to reinvent our battery, and Im
having a tough time
> with alternate locations to mount the res. for the water." part.



- -----Original Message-----
From: Oskar [mailto:swede@pclink.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 7:58 PM
To: Geoff Mohler; Team3S
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water injection mounting..


You can get a smaller battery such as the Odyssey ($159 from www.jegs.com).
This is the same battery as the now discontinued Black Panther.

Oskar
'95 R/T TT
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To: <team3s@www.speedtoys.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 8:40 PM
Subject: Team3S: Water injection mounting..


> Im not in the mood to reinvent our battery, and Im having a tough time
> with alternate locations to mount the res. for the water.
>
> Any other ideas?
>
> ---
> I LUV YOU VIRUS UPDATE!
>
> *Are you really that lonely and _pathetic_ that you decided to open an
attachment listed as
> a love letter from nobody you know?  This isnt a virus thats choking Email
server, its
> intelligently deciding who should have thier computers taken away by
force.
> ---
>
>
> ***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
>


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:27:37 -0700
From: jeff.mohler@netapp.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Ok. My 1st ENGINE TROUBLE post. HELP!

Busted piston/rod.  Youre probly already past the point of being able to
reconstruct the cylinders if youve let it bang around this long already.

- -----Original Message-----
From: vect0r0 [mailto:vect0r0@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 9:19 PM
To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: Ok. My 1st ENGINE TROUBLE post. HELP!




Alright..  I let me cousin borrow my car (1st mistake), a 1992 Stealth
TT with 15G's and all necessary electronics/fuel/intake/injectors etc.
I've never had trouble with the engine before but today, I started up my
car and the motor starts to make a clanking sound.  When I rev it up, I
get some HARD banging noises from what seems to be the rear bank of
cylinders.  It's random in occurance, and sound, but it doesn't sound
very good.

I took it down the street, and it's LOUD...  Clanging and banging around
it seems.  I tried some boost (maybe not a good idea) just to see if it
would rev up some and it seems to go up in RPM and boost just fine, but
the banging around in the engine compartment continues to be loud.

What is weird, tho, is that I can FEEL the engine in my clutch petal as
well.  When I let it out slowly while decelerating, I can feel a rapid
"clank."  My clutch is old, tired, and needed to be replaced quite a
while ago.  But I'm not too savy with engine troubles, and haven't ruled
out a worn out clutch/flywheel/bearing.

If anyone would have some ideas, I would greatly appreciate it.  This
sounds serious to me and need to be prepared for the worst.  Any
possible ideas as to the cause of the noise, or (if the block isn't
mared) what kind of a price it's gonna be to replace the pistons/etc.?
Thank you very much for any advice.

John

As on now, Twin Turbo-less..... :(


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 10:28:27 -0500
From: "Basol, John" <jbasol@Carlson.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Water injection mounting..

Jeff,
About the only other option you have is to mount it in the front
bumper.  I have some pics of this type of install on my web site.
www.geocities.com/jbasol <http://www.geocities.com/jbasol>

Select 1995 Dodge Stealth on the index frame.  About half way down the
Stealth page you'll find a pic of the Spearco tank mounted in my front
bumper.  The location seems to work fine.  Filling the tank is only slightly
more difficult than an underhood mounting.  Good luck.

John Basol
'95 RT/TT



-----Original Message-----
From: jeff.mohler@netapp.com [SMTP:jeff.mohler@netapp.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 10:24 AM
To: swede@pclink.com; gemohler@www.speedtoys.com;
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: Water injection mounting..

I guess you missed the.."> Im not in the mood to reinvent our
battery, and Im
having a tough time
> with alternate locations to mount the res. for the water." part.



-----Original Message-----
From: Oskar [mailto:swede@pclink.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 7:58 PM
To: Geoff Mohler; Team3S
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water injection mounting..


You can get a smaller battery such as the Odyssey ($159 from
www.jegs.com).
This is the same battery as the now discontinued Black Panther.

Oskar
'95 R/T TT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To: <team3s@www.speedtoys.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 8:40 PM
Subject: Team3S: Water injection mounting..


> Im not in the mood to reinvent our battery, and Im having a tough
time
> with alternate locations to mount the res. for the water.
>
> Any other ideas?
>
> ---
> I LUV YOU VIRUS UPDATE!
>
> *Are you really that lonely and _pathetic_ that you decided to
open an
attachment listed as
> a love letter from nobody you know?  This isnt a virus thats
choking Email
server, its
> intelligently deciding who should have thier computers taken away
by
force.
> ---
>
>
> ***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
>
------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:11:06 CDT
From: "Curt Gendron" <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: Minnesota 3/S updates (off topic)

Hey everyone,

I've made some huge updates to my "Minnesota 3/S" website.
http://www.mn3s.org

I have a few bugs to work out of it, but for the most part it is complete. 
Minnesota 3/S is packed with good information on mods, links, drag racing
times, local stuff, gatherings and 3/S optional equipment.  Did you know
that MN 3/S has had 22 offical gatherings in the last 18 months??  And many
more "unoffical" events.

At last count, the website had over 50 pages to it.  There are so many
pictures on this site that it takes up over 16 meg!  And now it is easier to
navigate with the frames bar on the left.  So take some time, and browse
around....

One other thing.  The Upper Midwest Gathering is fast approaching.  Only 8
days left to get signed up and make hotel arrangements.  All the details are
at: http://www.mn3s.org/upper-midwest.html

Got comments??  Send them to me privatly.  Thanks!

Thanks for listening,
Curt
MN 3/S #001
http://www.mn3s.org

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 10:38:30 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Calculated boost behaviour with 13g

Roger,

This graph you calculated from injector frequency is very interesting but IMHO
doesn't seem representative of true boost.  It shows you don't reach 14.5 psi
until almost 4100 RPM and also the curve has a noticable hump.  For a contrast,
my '91 with stock 9B's controlled with an SAVC-R and stock exhaust & cats will
reach 14.2 psi (visually measured by my SPI gauge and corroberated with the
SAVC-R gauge last night) between 3200-3400 RPM depending upon the gear
(2nd-4th), the incline of the road, and how quick I shift my gaze from the SPI
boost gauge to the RPM gauge.  The SAVC-R graph modes also always show a very
flat line from 3400-5100 RPM or so (Note: I have boost set to 1.05 from 4K-5K
RPM and 1.00 every where else).  For larger turbos, I would expect it to take a
little longer, but not 800 RPM longer, to reach only 14.5 psi, and I'd also
expect a flatter line through higher RPM before boost falls.  How accurate do
you feel your graph is?  While it is accurate as far as your ECU & injectors are
concerned, I'd guess it is a little pessimistic of what your true boost really
is.

Ken

> Ok, since we cannot log boost completely with the datalogger or any device I
> thought of calculating boost for analysing purposes upon the measured data
> like rpm and air flow frequency read by the ECU. Unfortunately, with small
> injectors, the air flow signal is maxed out at around 1260Hz and don't go
> higher. Correctly said, the data sent by the ECU doesn't contain higher
> values. Now with the 720cc installed the frequency is half and now do NOT
> exceed the highest value (at least around 15psi). This now enables me to use
> the recorded values for the calculation (hurray !!)
>
> For this I simply pressed the reset button on the DSBC at 4000rpm and got a
> reference boost there. This then gave me the divider I need to get the
> correct factor to calculate boost out of the simple air-flow formula. So far
> it seems that this works pretty good although below 8 psi it seems not to be
> correct (also no vacuum of course). But for reading the turbos boost
> behaviour the intersting range is between 3000 and 7000 rpm where we like to
> know how fast they fall off. I put the recorded data and formula together
> and the result looks like the curve the S-AVC-R2 can draw on its display.
>
> The result is shown in the attached pic (gif,15kB). Please note that this
> was on an slightly uphill road, with the engine under full load in 3rd gear.
> I floored at 2500 up to 6900 (glowing brakes afterwards). Boost was set to
> around 15 psi (DSBC). This resulted in lower boost in the lower rpm area as
> I usually do have 14 psi at 3200 rpm.Therefore, the interesting part is the
> fall off after 4500 rpm. With this data we can see that the 13g fall down to
> 13.4psi at 6000 rpm. This is about 2.5 psi more than the 9b but I can't say
> for sure.
>
> Therefore I badly need another datalog from a 3s with 720cc too BUT stock 9b
> or any other turbos. Please send me a similar log with flooring the car
> under full load from 2000 - 7000. I know this is hard to do but should be
> possible on a highway ;-)
>
> If anyone is interested in the Excel (CSV) files just drop me a mail and I
> send it to you.
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT

- --
If you're not the lead car, your view never changes!

Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 10:44:08 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Testing Day for camber plates

Hi Rich,

> We installed camber plates 3 weeks ago, and set the camber to one degree
> negative in the front, with +0.15 deg toe. When we used a pryrometer on the
> tires today, the right side fronts read within 5 deg across, with the
> inside and outside exactly the same (190 deg) and the center 5 deg lower.
> My instructor consultant said that was perfect. The left sides were about
> 165 deg, also within 5 deg on all three readings. Marshalltown has mostly
> left turns, which puts all the stress on the right front, so it reads
> higher temps.

I thought the ideal was to have the same temps across the whole contact patch.
If so, then your tire pressure should have been raised until the center temp
matched the edges.  The good news is your camber & caster yielded the same temps
on the edges for that track -- good job!
- --
If you're not the lead car, your view never changes!

Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:39:08 -0700
From: jeff.mohler@netapp.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Testing Day for camber plates

Exactly, I was wondering about that as well, -5deg center patch isnt
optimal..its a large difference in fact.

Go up 2psi...retest.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Ken Middaugh [mailto:Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 10:44 AM
To: Merritt
Cc: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: Testing Day for camber plates


Hi Rich,

> We installed camber plates 3 weeks ago, and set the camber to one degree
> negative in the front, with +0.15 deg toe. When we used a pryrometer on the
> tires today, the right side fronts read within 5 deg across, with the
> inside and outside exactly the same (190 deg) and the center 5 deg lower.
> My instructor consultant said that was perfect. The left sides were about
> 165 deg, also within 5 deg on all three readings. Marshalltown has mostly
> left turns, which puts all the stress on the right front, so it reads
> higher temps.

I thought the ideal was to have the same temps across the whole contact patch.
If so, then your tire pressure should have been raised until the center temp
matched the edges.  The good news is your camber & caster yielded the same temps
on the edges for that track -- good job!
- --
If you're not the lead car, your view never changes!

Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:27:49 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Testing Day for camber plates

>I thought the ideal was to have the same temps across the whole contact
patch.
>If so, then your tire pressure should have been raised until the center temp
>matched the edges.  The good news is your camber & caster yielded the same
temps
>on the edges for that track -- good job!

My instructor said that readings within 5 deg across the tire were perfect.
If the difference had been substantial, then you would be right.
>--
Rich/old poop

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 12:16:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Testing Day for camber plates

But -5deg down the center of the patch?

I see that as large, because thats a sign of the tire not keeping a
consistent face to the ground when you load it..the face is deforming
under load some.

If he says 5 is ok....

- ---
I LUV YOU VIRUS UPDATE!

*Are you really that lonely and _pathetic_ that you decided to open an attachment listed as
a love letter from nobody you know?  This isnt a virus thats choking Email server, its
intelligently deciding who should have thier computers taken away by force.
- ---

On Thu, 11 May 2000, Merritt wrote:

>
> >I thought the ideal was to have the same temps across the whole contact
> patch.
> >If so, then your tire pressure should have been raised until the center temp
> >matched the edges.  The good news is your camber & caster yielded the same
> temps
> >on the edges for that track -- good job!
>
> My instructor said that readings within 5 deg across the tire were perfect.
> If the difference had been substantial, then you would be right.
> >--
> Rich/old poop
>
> ***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
>
------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 16:13:53 EDT
From: TrboDrvr@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Idling Trouble

I wonder if anyone can help me diagnose a weird idling problem.  First off, my car (91TT) idles very smoothly, so rough idle is not the problem.  The cold idle is fine--no problems there.  The cold and warm idle are fine when I have the AC running--no problem there either.  The problem is when the car is warm and the AC compressor cycles off.  If the car is at a standstill and the AC compressor cycles off, the idle drops real low (around 500), and then SLOWLY recovers to normal.  Also, if the compressor is not running and the car is warm and I gun the engine (or just push in the clutch while driving), the idle drops really low and then slowly recovers (within, say, 5-10 seconds).  It does not stall and does not spit or sputter or bog down or misfire or anything like that.  I'm at a loss because the car otherwise runs and idles fine.  It is just when its warm and the compressor is off.  Any suggestions?

Joe 91 TT

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 15:17:15 -0500
From: "Basol, John" <jbasol@Carlson.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Idling Trouble

Perhaps the Idle Speed Controller is getting a little old and sluggish.
Anyone know a way to test it's operation?

John Basol
'95 RT/TT



-----Original Message-----
From: TrboDrvr@aol.com [SMTP:TrboDrvr@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 3:14 PM
To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: Idling Trouble

I wonder if anyone can help me diagnose a weird idling problem.
First off, my car (91TT) idles very smoothly, so rough idle is not the
problem.  The cold idle is fine--no problems there.  The cold and warm idle
are fine when I have the AC running--no problem there either.  The problem
is when the car is warm and the AC compressor cycles off.  If the car is at
a standstill and the AC compressor cycles off, the idle drops real low
(around 500), and then SLOWLY recovers to normal.  Also, if the compressor
is not running and the car is warm and I gun the engine (or just push in the
clutch while driving), the idle drops really low and then slowly recovers
(within, say, 5-10 seconds).  It does not stall and does not spit or sputter
or bog down or misfire or anything like that.  I'm at a loss because the car
otherwise runs and idles fine.  It is just when its warm and the compressor
is off.  Any suggestions?

Joe 91 TT

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

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