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From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #212
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest          Monday, June 21 1999          Volume 01 : Number 212




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Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 23:05:46 -0700
From: Joe Gonsowski <twinturbo@mediaone.net>
Subject: Team3S: EVCIII, drag racing results, & more

For those who may have been curious about my EVC III problem from an
earlier post, here is how I resolved it.  Remember that I had problems
holding boost, it tended to increase with rpm.  Mike (Michael Qwan sp?)
from HKS was a great help and had me re-perform the self learning mode
at a higher initial rpm (2,500 instead of 1,000).  This gave me better
boost control when finished however I still observe boost creep (higher
boost than entered in EVC as engine rpms increase) at lower boost levels
(9psi).  One of the DSM guys told me I probably cannot avoid this with
my setup (15G turbos with low restriction exhaust) as the wastegate
cannot reroute enough exhaust gas to maintain the low boost  At higher
boost levels (12psi and above) the EVCIII performs flawless, holding
desired boost until redline.

For those interested, my results from Milan dragway (first time out in
Stealth):

first two runs at low boost and easy launch/shifts netted a pair of
13.8's at 103 & 106.  Then I had my three best runs of the day (8 total
runs):

60ft        1/8speed    1/4speed    1/4 ET
1.959      81.38         110.34       12.979
1.930      80.20         109.26       13.021
1.913      80.63         110.07       12.977

These three runs were all at 16psi with a fuel rich A/F setting courtesy
of VPC.  I think I'll be purchasing a data logger soon to try and fine
tune at higher boost levels.  Anyone looking to get rid of one (& a
cheap laptop)?

Complaints:  I've raced several cars down the 1/4 over the past few
years and none shift as poorly as my '92 Stealth.  I wasted lots of time
on my 1-2 and 2-3 shifts.  Perhaps I was being overly careful, but I
didn't dare to let off the clutch and get back on the gas until a
complete shift was under my belt.  I'm going to re-adjust the clutch
pedal (right now it disengages/engages only when ALL the way to the
floor) and bleed the system and hope this helps.  As it sits, the shifts
are pretty balky, perhaps my syncros are not up to snuff.

Also, I find it very difficult to cut a good reaction time (ranged from
.73 to 1.4 on a .5 tree).  Either I wait until my rpms are just where I
want them (sacrificing a good reaction time) or go for the good reaction
time and either bog or get off the gas because the rpms are too high.
I've yet to get up to the line and just hold rpms where I want them and
unleash the beast on the last amber light.  This could be and probably
is just operator error.  Practice makes perfect.

BTW - There was a front drive Laser there that ran a 12.03 at 120+ @
25psi, John I think.  Nice/helpful guy.  Very impressive car for FWD!

Thanks,
Joe Gonsowski

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Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 20:45:10 -0700
From: Bruce Body <bbody@pacbell.net>
Subject: Team3S: G-Tech Pro

Has anyone actually ran a side by side comparison at the dragstrip with
the G-Tech Pro? I did and was so disappointed that I sent it back. It
was very inconsistent ranging from fairly right on to being over 1
second optimistic as shown below. I wondered if mine might have been
defective except my HP numbers were all fairly consistent. Below are the
results from one session. I was dialing in my DSBC at the time so my
times are generally awful as I was watching gauges, etc., but no way was
I going 115-120 at the end of the 1/4. I'm curious as to what others
experiences are because it was a fun toy and if mine was defective,
maybe I'll try another one.

G-Tech Pro     Timeslip
13.08/115.0  14.231/98.339
13.43/118.7  14.426/100.213
14.93/105.0  14.933/98.097
14.15/112.7  14.895/99.629
12.68/120.2  13.930/99.825
13.31/116.4  14.096/101.280
12.43/119.8  13.302/104.770

The alignment was done per instructions and the unit was perfectly level
at the starting line.

Bruce
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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:39:50 -0400
From: Rob Corkum <twinturbo@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: Doing a compression check -- Question

Hi all,

I'm quite a bit behind on reading the digests since the starnet list is
back -- and it's a good thing.

I started out to just replace the spark plugs and wires, but decided to
also do a compression check and probably diagnose and replace a lash
adjuster or two.  (Of course my luck has it that the ticking is coming
from the rear bank.)  I will be doing some more mods if everything
checks out ok.

On my '93 Stealth TT, I have the air plenum off completely, the cables
and plugs are out, and the crankshaft position sensor is unplugged.  Is
there any reason why I can't get the engine to crank over while this
way?

I figure either the battery has gone flat enough to light lights and
all, but not enough to actually turn over the starter -- unlikely but
possible I guess (what does it sound like or do if this is the case?)...
or some vacuum connection or hose is important enough that the car
doesn't feel it should try starting without it connected to the
manifold/plenum, etc.  There is also one grounding lead that is removed
while taking off the intake.

Any ideas?

One last thing for those that have had their plenum off, etc.  My car
has about 82K miles on it and the interior of the plenum was rather
black, caked with oily soot about .5 mm thick, especially near the
outgoing air end of the plenum.  I'm going to clean it all up of course,
but is this normal, and can I do anything anywhere else that can help
the matter if it isn't?  I'm thinking it's not that bad as the air pipe
is quite clean.

Thanks!

file://Rob//
PMW '93 Stealth R/T TT
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:01:23 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mikael_=C5kesson?= <vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Doing a compression check -- Question

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Corkum <twinturbo@home.com>
<SNIP>
My car has about 82K miles on it and the interior of the plenum was rather black, caked with oily soot about .5 mm thick, especially near the outgoing air end of the plenum.  I'm going to clean it all up of course, but is this normal?

Hi, I guess that it's normal, My plenum was black on the inside and I know that several other people have reported the same thing. I cleaned mine with gasoline and that worked out very good. I sealed the opening with plastic bags and tape and then just filled it up with some gas and gave it a good shake. The plennum then looked brand new on the inside.

When you have the plenum off I suggest that you take the extra time it takes to polish the plenum (on the outside!) with a drilling machine with a wire wheel on it. It will take you 10-20 minutes, you will not get a "show shine" but it will look better that it did when the car was new. Well worth the extra time :)

Regards Mikael http://www.3000gt.nu



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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:20:32 -0400
From: Kevin Schappell <kevin@pacarsearch.com>
Subject: Team3S: Oil filter Comparison URL?

Could someone e-mail me off list the URL of the site which compared oil
filters?  I am at work and I believe I have the original post at home.

Thanks,

Kevin Schappell
Auto Answers
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:37:48 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Oil filter Comparison URL?

http://minimopar.simplenet.com/oilfilterstudy.html

> Brad
      Check out my home page:   http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
> E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#  3612682



- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Schappell
Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 7:21 AM
To: 'Stealth'
Subject: Team3S: Oil filter Comparison URL?

Could someone e-mail me off list the URL of the site which compared oil
filters?  I am at work and I believe I have the original post at home.

Thanks,

Kevin Schappell
Auto Answers
http://www.pacarsearch.com

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http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:05:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Dennis G. Bretton " <dbretton@cs.uml.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: VR4 vs RX7 Turbo?

> Beware of the rotary engine off the line.  I've had three RX-7's(all
> first gens), and the engine spools up very quickly.  My 91 TT(when it
> was running right) would have been no match for even my old (non-turbo)
> '85 GSL-SE at the word "GO"(of course after about 40 the RX would have
> been a blip in the rearview).

Hi Jeff (et. al.),

   When you mean that your TT could not beat these cars immediately off
the line, I assume that you refer to conditions when the "other car"
launches with little/no spin, correct?
Otherwise, I cannot see how the VR-4 could lose, off the line, to some
suped-up car that is laying rubber all over the road. :)

The times I have watched 3/S members launch at the strip, nothing has
beaten them off the line, except one suped-up Camaro which had no spin at
launch.

Regards,
   Dennis


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:42:41 -0500
From: "Matt Jannusch" <mattj@fallon.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: G-Tech Pro

> G-Tech Pro     Timeslip
> 13.08/115.0  14.231/98.339
> 13.43/118.7  14.426/100.213
> 12.68/120.2  13.930/99.825
>
> The alignment was done per instructions and the unit was perfectly level
> at the starting line.

Typically the problem is when you have a car that squats excessively (like
ours do) where the front comes up and the back goes down under acceleration.
This adds another .1G or so to the measurements the GTech is taking, so you
are going to see artificially low times and high trap speeds.  Not sure how
bad your car squats, but I know mine does it quite a lot, even under normal
driving.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:13:27 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: RE: Team3S: G-Tech Pro

>Typically the problem is when you have a car that squats excessively (like
>ours do) where the front comes up and the back goes down under acceleration.

My measurments are not bad while the speed is definitely too high. The theory with the car squating down in the rear sounds interesting. I felt that after
removing the spare wheel, some dead animals and replacing the exhaust the times became better and even more consistant. I then also felt that car
less squating than with the heavy stuff in the rear but my 93'3000 TT never lifted its nose a lot.

Also it highly depends if you go a little sideways with the car. When I do this with the LT1 Camaro, the times are totally off while speed seems to be ok.
With the 3S the times I've seen (13.24@1 bar, 13.15@1.15 bar) where high due to a bad driver (i.e. me) and a somwhat slow shifting between 1 & 2
since day 1.

On the Camaro board our conclusion was that the G-Tech pro is about 4 mph and 0.15-0.25 seconds too optimistic. The speed of course is estimated 
for the end of a 1/4 mile while on track it is trap speed.

>bad your car squats, but I know mine does it quite a lot, even under normal
>driving.

Hmm, maybe Mitsu made the Spiders rear suspension somewhat softer to provide more quality and to prevent bending the top too much.

Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
__________________________

Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo
. going the wet way now !

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:28:20 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: EVCIII, drag racing results, & more

Great you finally got the things running the right way.

>at a higher initial rpm (2,500 instead of 1,000).  This gave me better
>boost control when finished however I still observe boost creep (higher
>boost than entered in EVC as engine rpms increase) at lower boost levels
>(9psi).

This is always the same I hear with the EVCs and cars with two turbos (ours, Supra, RX, 300). Although it should be better with the 15Gs as they
spool up somewhat slower than the 9B.

> One of the DSM guys told me I probably cannot avoid this with
>my setup (15G turbos with low restriction exhaust) as the wastegate
>cannot reroute enough exhaust gas to maintain the low boost

No, the wastegates ar quick and especially holding boost at any level is null problemo. The EBC control the wastegates by pulsing the pressure going
to the actuators. With this it is possible to create 2-5 psi for the actuators while the car is at 10psi and holding. Sometimes you can see a weavy
behaviour at the gauge at low boost but this was cured simply by changing the BC settings. A slow weavy behaivour at ultra-high boost has been
caused by the timing alternated due to knock/no-knock.

> At higher boost levels (12psi and above) the EVCIII performs flawless, holding
>desired boost until redline.

The 15Gs are doing this and this proves that the wastegates are quick enough. Otherwise, the boost would alternate too much.

Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
__________________________

Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo
. going the wet way now !

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:45:10 -0500
From: "Phil Johnson" <dangerwit@mn.mediaone.net>
Subject: Team3S: Paint Maintenance

I realize this isn't technical, but I figured a bunch of folks who take as
good care inside must take take as good care of the outside.  So, I suppose
private email would be the best route for answers.

This is my first full summer with my stealth (blue), and I'm looking for
anyone who would be willing to share advice on 'healing' paint chips,
especially [of course] in the hood.  I have the paint, but I'm not too good
at figuring out how to fix these chips (most are very small).

Anyone wish to help?  =)

Thanks,
*Phil

Phillip Johnson
Ceridian Employer Services
612-894-3224 (w)
888-415-4894 (pager)


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:48:48 -0400
From: Kevin Schappell <kevin@pacarsearch.com>
Subject: Team3S: FIPK installed, temperature results.

Well first I installed the filter-charger in the stock air box and noticed
a little more noise and a little better performance.  I then installed the
FIPK after battling with the bolts between the stock air box and the MAF.
 (darn plastic ribs that were supposed to capture the studs just flexed and
allowed the studs to turn.)  I did not notice any increase in power from
the air-charger but alot more noise. (which is ok with me)  I do hear the
BOV now, kinda like blowing over a bottle, or a honking goose.  I placed
the temp. probe I had in the airbox right outside of the filter and did not
notice any increase in temp.  Intake temp is still running 10-15 degree F
above outside temp.  I am now waiting for my harness (back ordered ! ) for
the turbo timer so I can install the boost controller. ( I need an accurate
boost guage to tune the controller )  I am thinking about making up a new
cover and placing the timer and controller where the extra 12V power
connection is.

Later,

Kevin Schappell
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 02:35:02 -0400
From: Rob Corkum <twinturbo@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: re: Doing a compression check -- Question

Update:

> Is there any reason why I can't get the engine to crank over while
> this way?

Well, I had almost answered my own question and got the heads-up from
another list member.  It seems that the engine block is grounded by the
single braided grounding lead off the firewall in front of the driver's
side to the diver's rear corner of the plenum.  I had figured that there
must be another lead somewhere as the manual didn't mention to reconnect
it to some other bolt location.  No problems after that to do the
compression test -- and it turned out ok, with one cylinder a bit lower
than the rest.  I peered down the lower manifold into the area where you
can see both valves for that cylinder and one looked caked up with
something.  All the others were quite clean.  I may snap a few pics and
put them up as a reference when I do clean it.

> One last thing for those that have had their plenum off, etc.  ...
> ...  I'm going to clean it all up of course,

I got the suggestion from another list member to take the opportunity to
polish up the plenum while it's off completely using a wire wheel.

Does anyone have any bad experiences in doing this?  It doesn't look
like it'll take too long -- kind of tedious to get all the nooks and
crannies, but it should keep the bumpy casted surface, but just make it
shinier I guess.  I'll try cleaning out the interior gunk with some
gasoline.

ttyal!

file://Rob//
PMW '93 Stealth R/T TT
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------------------------------

End of Team3S Digest V1 #212
****************************

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