--
From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #159
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
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Team3S Digest
Thursday, April 22 1999 Volume
01 : Number
159
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:53:49 -0500
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Brake List Columns!
WHY did that last message show up crappy? I had
all the columns closely
spaced yet in order, not with 30 spaces between words
and scattergrammed
all over the place. Others have had theirs this way
too, it is annoying
and a detriment to our list! Maybe someone can help
us on this to avoid
problems in future? This is not a car topic but
does impact on the
quality of list messages. Sorry to those who think
it unimportant.
Jack Tertadian
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 07:31:33 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
High 11's w/ stock Turbos? -Reply
The "13" of the 13G refers to the bore
diameter of the impeller. The 13G is
definitely bigger than the
9B. The exhaust housing of a 13G is slightly
larger than the 9B, as
well, and have slightly different a/r ratio however
small. I doubt it
would be enough to account for 50 HP though without
additional boost, but the
13G is capablke of holding much more boost than
the
9B.
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
>
>
> > The "stock" turbos for the overseas
(to the continental US) are 13g's.
> > therefore the turbos are quite a
bit larger than the US version
> turbos. I
> > suspect the
13g's will produce at least 50hp more than the
> 9b's. Which would
>
> be enough to get into the 11's.
>
> No, no way, look again at
our dyno sessions and you'll see a
> bigger power in the
> mid-band
and more tourque. The torque then helps to get a faster
> 1/4 mile
time
> but no hp. If I had done the dyno with summer tires (I was
too
> stupid and we
> almost glow up the winter tires) then the
results would show a
> better power
> holding in the higher area.
but that's it. Also I don't think the
> 13 is really
> bigger but it
has a different design of the compressor wheel.
>
> Regards,
>
Roger
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:03:50 EDT
From: Dskull@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Brakes - My
History and Current Status
Warning VERY long post. I am the Dave
that Brad Bardell mentioned in his
post. I have a 1993 VR4 with K&N,
boost controller and gutted cats. During
1998 started racing. Prior to first
event installed steel brake lines, Motul
600 fluid , Performance friction Z
rated pad, GAB struts, and used stock
rotors and tires. High speed course at
Pocono, 3.3 miles using 1/2 of NASCAR
track. 125 in front straight, 157 in
back straight. Pads lasted 2 days.
Serious fade. After trying different
techniques learned to either be ON the
brakes or OFF, no light braking then
hard braking. Fade was reduced but would
return after a few hot laps. Did a
few laps slower to cool then down, then
back to hot laps. Next phase, get
better pads. Went with Performance friction
83 compound. Poncono North
course, 1.5 miles, 125 in front straight. First
few laps brakes felt great.
On lap 5 warped rotors. Next went with
Performance friction 93 pads. Less
aggressive than the 83's. Turned rotors to
correct warp. Bought a set of
Yoko A0032R's. North course again at Pocono.
First day everything
stayed together. No fade, no warp. Second day during 3rd
session warped
rotors. Most likely because now I was learning course and
generating more
speed into braking zones, plus the added traction from the
Yoko's. Next I
got cross drilled rotors from Brake Warehouse. These are Bradi
rotors made
in Italy. 3 laps and cracked right rotor clean through from
outside of rotor
to one of the x-drilled holes. Saw other major cracks
starting in different
locations. Replaced rotors with Bradi slotted. These
lasted for 3 events
before warping. I concluded from all of this that it's
guess work at best to
get the pad / rotor combination that would result in a
setup with little to
no fade by using an aggressive enough pad without
overheating the rotors.
BTW, I remove the backing plates before my first
event. Broke open the piggy
bank and ordered Brad Bardell's setup. Using
stock 17" wheels the clearance
on the calipers is really tight. Pagid Orange
pads. Mounted up the new
G-Force R1's. Installed Ground Control's coil over
setup on my existing
GAB's. Running 650 lbs in front and 500 in rear. Car is
2.3 inches lower
than stock. Installed a rear shock tower from road race
engineering. April
16th, Lime Rock Park. 1.5 mile course. Front straight
speeds of 125. Back
section of track around 80-85. Air temp. 45 degree's.
COLD track. After a
few slow laps to build up some tire temp ( not much) and
getting used to new
suspension, started to gradually increase lap speeds.
Side note, new
suspension has eliminated pushing in corners. Car is very
neutral now
:) Ok back to the brakes. Lap 15 on back short straight 80 mph
setting
up for right hander. Hard on brakes. SNAP, followed by a immediate
right
hand turn. Thought something locked up in the right front. Saved the
car in
the corner, limped back to the pits. Left front rotor snapped. Sheared
the
hub away from the rotor surface. Thought about the power slot post last
year. Done for the day :(. Picked up a set of stock rotors (Wagner).
Drove
car around to season rotors. Let them cool, then beat the hell out of
them on
a local highway. 90-20 mph stops. Did about 30 of these in a row. No
problems. Had the G-force tires still on the car. Drove to West Viriginia on
Sunday to Summit Point for a 2 day event. Summit Point is a 2.5 mile
technical course, 130 in front straight. Several area's of 80 mph into
braking zones. 9 turns total, most are right hander's. Needless to say I was
VERY tentative on the brakes. As my confindence returned speed increased. No
fade, no bang. Throughout the day did around 80 laps. On Tuesday I started
to
get more aggressive after studying every area of runoff just in case.
After
44 laps I cound not get the brakes to fade, not even once. Mid
afternoon had
a instructor friend of mine ride with me. By the end of 20
laps, we were 4-5
seconds faster than I had been previous. Now we are
carrying mucho speed into
the braking zones ( 20-25 mph more). Now I am full
on the brakes and a few
times had front wheels lock up briefly. Awesome
pucker factor of about 9.
Side note, On Tuesday morning went to go out with
the exact same tire setup
as I left it on Monday. Wicked vibration in front
end. Left front G-Force
tire and become out of round by 1/4 in. Tread was
even all the way around. No
one could explain how this happened. No spare,
so I put it on the right rear
and lowered the pressure and reduced that
shocks dampening. Could still feel
it at high speed, but was controllable.
After 150 + laps the pads look great.
Very little wear. Rotors are fine. So
my conclusions so far are 1) You cannot
generate anywhere near the braking
force on the street that you can on the
track mostly due to the grip of the
hot G-force tires and getting the brakes
up to optimum temp. I think this is
why the KVR rotors did not snap while I
was testing it on the street. 2)
Stock rotors worked fine. Question is, do
the slotted portion of the KVR
rotors contribute to higher braking forces, or
do they just serve to clear
the brake dust build up between the pads and
rotors ? 3) The rotors in
Brad's kit are the 94-up stock size. These are
about 5/8 larger in diameter
than the 91-93's. I think perhaps the increased
sweep area of the caliper's
contribute more to perfomance than the rotor
size. This is pure speculation
on my part. 4) ANY comparisons between brake
systems must take into account
where system was used. Track vs street. I
really don't think you can compare
system realiabilty if they are not used on
the track. Please feel free to
comment, correct, or just add your 3 cents.
Dave - 93 VR4 - Got Brakes
?????????
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:09:54 -0400
From: Gavin Wallis <wallisg@mwaa.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Brembo $2g kit, was: Re: Basic brake upgrade -Reply
A few suggestions:
1) Incorporate a rating system: 1-10. It can be averages of all user
input
or something like that...it is hard to understand what you mean when
you
say Porterfield has a "shorter" life.
2) Include the crap pieces
too...i.e. powerslot. This gives people the good
ole process of elimination +
the ability to choose. Maybe the Powerslots
get real low ratings for x-cross,
but get high ratings for low speed
grip...thus someone who just drives on the
street and likes to see his
0-60 times will figure out to save the money and
buy some poweslots.
3) These are just some categories:
PADS
:
Material
Size
Life
Dust
Cost
Cold Friction
Hot
Friction
Noise
Rotor Wear
Price
Suggested Use
Cust Satisfaction
(ok ok...a little influence here from tirerack
:))
ROTORS:
Material
Size
Weight
Low speed stops over stock
rating
High speed stops over stock rating
Race structural
integrity
Street structural
integrity
Price
Rust?
KITS:
Bolton?
All of the above
categories
List members experiences
etc...
Like I said, we NEED a
web page for this, or at least a database.
Gavin
'94 Black
VR-4
>>> xwing <xwing@execpc.com> 04/21/99 07:39pm
>>>
It seems we need a heirarchy of braking systems available to our
cars,
from best to
least, and cost/features of each. I will start
one, everybody else can
modify it, add
brands, change order, it is just a
start based on my limited knowledge,
off top of head
(NOT
researched, please correct errors, Roger and Brad et al!) (Brad I
don't
know
if yours or Bremsa is better, let's hash this out to the best of our
ability!)
PAD SIZE is important, if can get this info--great! One
reason my
Stillen/Brembos
are so much better than stock is the PADS are
way
longer/wider/THICKER...
From best to "worst":
Front
Brakes
Brand
size
cost
special
features/Questions
1) AP
Racing 14" 6-piston
system ?$6000 WHERE to get, KVR?
is
bolton?
2)
Bremsa
12.6" (322mm)
?$ Aluminum
hats
?Brembo
caliper
3) Brad
Bedell 12.6"
(322mm)
$1500 Steel hats, Brembo
caliper
4)
Stillen/Brembo
12.2"
$2000 Steel hats Braided
lines
5) ?Baer
Racing
?
? No idea/should
be
called!
6)
?MovIt
?
? No Idea, is
it
BOLTON?
6) Mitsubishi 94+
12.1"
boneyard cheap better than 91-93
7) Mitsubishi
91-93
11.2"
" cheap
Rear
Brakes:
1)
Bremsa
?size
?cost Roger mentioned
them;
details?
2)
94+
?size dual piston
cheap bigger than 91-93
3)
91-93
?10.1" single piston cheap
Brake pads: (This may
just be a list of features/experiences, there is
balance
between
longevity, friction, dust--which do YOU choose as most important
etc?
1) Pagid
Blue
last LONG, moderate dust, expensive,
average
friction
2)
Porterfield
R4
last shorter, alot of nasty dust, brake
great/high
friction
3)
Performance Friction Z last long, mod. dust, mod. friction (I
didn't
RACE these)
3) Mitsu Stock
91-93 Not
Recommended For Roadracing; little dust
though
I do not trust
crossdrilled rotors yet, nor do I NOW trust slotted rotors
based on
the
catastrophic failures suffered in use--you FIRST need to be able
to
TRUST your
brakes, at LEAST that they won't explode on
you...
Hope this is useful as a starter list! Add/modify/change
away! Call
places, get info!
Jack Tertadian
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:18:53 +0200
From: Roger Gerl <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Brembo $2g kit, was: Re: Basic brake upgrade
Jack,
Very
good start and I will place this information onto a page on my site for
later
use for everyone (if this is ok four anyone). I do have almost every link
to
information pages about the pages and can paste some pictures too.
>
2)
Bremsa
12.6" (322mm)
Any disc size is possible. One call and they can do
it as the hub is always the
same for all cars even with ap, Brembo or
whatever calipers.
> 6) MovIt No Idea, is it
BOLTON?
Yes, they have a kit available. 17" wheels are a must then (of
course)
> 6) Mitsubishi 94+ boneyard
cheap better than 91-93
I haven't found any 3000GT /
Stealth on any boneyard in Switz. and Germany :(
> 1)
Bremsa Roger mentioned them; details?
Yes, will provide them
this evening.
> 1) Pagid Blue last LONG, moderate
dust, expensive, average
It's mabye good to provide real prices
too.
Again, if this is ok for you I gather the information and place it
onto my
pages.
Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:26:46 -0400
From: Jason Barnhart <phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Shifting points/rev limiter...
Hey, I posted a message a couple
days ago and haven't received a single resopnse. I
was racing my car
and noticed that after I shifted into the next gear it felt like a
slug and
wouldn't build appropriate boost. This was done while speed shifting
shortly
before the rev limiter. I'm thinking that it would hit the
limiter momentarily causing
the poor acceleration in the next gear. I
couldn't feel it hit the limiter at all, and
I was just kinda wondering if
the limiter might cause such a thing to happen. My
fastest time was
done with lift throttle shifting.
thanks,
Jason
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:26:17 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Brakes - My History and Current Status
At 11:03 AM
4/21/99 EDT, you wrote:
>Warning VERY long post. I am the Dave that Brad
Bardell mentioned in his
>post. I have a 1993 VR4 with K&N, boost
controller and gutted cats.
I take it that your successful setup
is:
Brad's Porsche caliper and brake kit
Pagid pads
Stock (!!)
rotors.
Did I get all this correct?
No fade? And the pads last a long
time?
Ducting?
Sounds like this might be the hot
ticket.
Rich/old poop
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:29:05 -0400
From: Gavin Wallis <wallisg@mwaa.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
High 11's w/ stock Turbos? -Reply
>>> Roger Gerl <robby@swissonline.ch> 04/21/99 03:50am
>>>
>Furthermore, the less boost the better the milage and the
better the
>result in tests :) Interestingly, my milage went up after
increasing boost
>;-)
Makes sense to me...turbos use what otherwise
would be wasted
energy...the perpetual machine :)
> BTW, Gavin
Wallis mentioned that it is pointless to make a stock
> turbo'd 3000GT run
11's b/c it would cost $10k to gut it and put
> slicks and a rollcage on
it.
>It depends on the rules. I learned from people that when dialing in
and
>you give em a low 12 they only allow you to run with a roll
cage
>installed. But you are right, I think high 11s are possible with
less than
>10k.
Ok, could someone tell me the prices of rollcage +
installation...maybe i'm
just totally retarded. I believed it to be from
$5000 and up for a light,
strong cage. Then add $1200 susp. mods, $2000
light wheels, $1000
slicks, totaling: $9200 w/out labor and
shipping.
Gavin
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:42:36 -0700
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Shifting points/rev limiter...
Jason...
Sounds like
you're driving it hard. Slipping clutch? Fouled plugs? Loose
vacuum line?
Leaking Y-pipe?
I don't think there should be any relationship between
your symptoms
(failure to build boost) and your rev limiter. My experience
with the rev
limiter is that it cuts the spark, feeling like misfire, but
recovers as
soon as I shift and get the revs back down. We really shouldn't
need to
shift much past 7K rpm to keep it in the power band for the next gear
(I'm
talking 2nd gen with a six speed), but my solution was to have
G-force
remove the rev limiter completely.
Looking
forward...Chris
1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/HKS Super Flo intake, TEC
15G turbos, bored
and polished throttle body, RC 560cc injectors, HKS fuel
pump, GReddy PRofec
A boost controller, G-force ECU upgrade, HKS SBOV, custom
intercoolers,
Predator dry cell battery, Magnecore 8.5mm wires, NGK double
platinum plugs
gapped at .030", ATR downpipe and test pipe, GReddy catback
exhaust, GReddy
turbo timer, Eibach 1" drop progressive springs)
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Barnhart [mailto:phnxgld@erols.com]
Sent:
Wednesday, April 21, 1999 8:27 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S: Shifting points/rev limiter...
Hey, I posted a message a couple
days ago and haven't received a single
resopnse. I
was racing my car
and noticed that after I shifted into the next gear it
felt like a
slug
and wouldn't build appropriate boost. This was done while
speed
shifting shortly
before the rev limiter. I'm thinking that it
would hit the limiter
momentarily causing
the poor acceleration in the
next gear. I couldn't feel it hit the limiter
at all, and
I was just
kinda wondering if the limiter might cause such a thing to
happen.
My
fastest time was done with lift throttle
shifting.
thanks,
Jason
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:52:42 -0700
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: High 11's w/ stock Turbos? -Reply
Gavin...
Check the
archives. There were a couple threads about roll bars & roll cages
in the
last two months. Seems like the NHRA setup was less than the $5K
you're
quoting. Keep in mind that a six point roll cage is heavy (~ 300
lbs?).
You'll need to remove a LOT of things even to get back to the stock
weight
after you've added one.
However, you're going to need that money anyway.
I REALLY doubt, no matter
how much weight you ditch, that you can make it
into the 11s with a bone
stock engine. I don't see any $$$ allocated for
boost control, injectors,
fuel pump, etc. Even if you keep the 9Gs (and I
still don't understand why
it matters), there's still a bunch of money to get
the rest of the air/fuel
delivery system up to the performance level required
to hit the 11s.
BTW...this is only my opinion, I'd love to have you
prove me wrong.
Looking forward...Chris
1995 Glacier Pearl White
VR4 (w/HKS Super Flo intake, TEC 15G turbos, bored
and polished throttle
body, RC 560cc injectors, HKS fuel pump, GReddy PRofec
A boost controller,
G-force ECU upgrade, HKS SBOV, custom intercoolers,
Predator dry cell
battery, Magnecore 8.5mm wires, NGK double platinum plugs
gapped at .030",
ATR downpipe and test pipe, GReddy catback exhaust, GReddy
turbo timer,
Eibach 1" drop progressive springs)
- -----Original Message-----
From:
Gavin Wallis [mailto:wallisg@mwaa.com]
Sent: Wednesday,
April 21, 1999 8:29 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Re: Team3S: High 11's w/ stock Turbos? -Reply
<snip>
Ok, could
someone tell me the prices of rollcage + installation...maybe i'm
just
totally retarded. I believed it to be from $5000 and up for a light,
strong
cage. Then add $1200 susp. mods, $2000 light wheels, $1000
slicks,
totaling: $9200 w/out labor and shipping.
Gavin
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:52:58 EDT
From: LotoBoost@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: VPC
--> 550cc injectors on a 96VR4
All,
About
the debate on 550cc/560cc/720cc injectors on the 2nd Gen. Stealth
and VR4s,
NO PROBLEM! We've been running them on our cars for a while now,
and
haven't run into any problems.
At least, to run the 550cc injectors an
A'pexi AFC is necessary. The problem
with the AFC is that it needs to
be leaned near -30% across the board or the
2nd. Gen Stealth/VR4s tend to
run extremely rich. Another problem I've seen
(and experienced) is
that because the AFC only adjusts the stock fuel curve
(no map capabilities)
at certain boost levels the car can experience pretty
severe lean
conditions. For example, very commonly on the 2nd. Gens with the
AFC,
you'll notice when the gas is pressed down significantly the fuel is
actually taken OUT of the car (as the 02's head down towards Zero) and then
a
split second later the fuel is properly added.
Another option
available, and a much better option, would be to run a VPC.
I've been
installing custom VPC's on the 2nd. Gen. for a while now and am
glad to
report they work great (to the extent I am considering selling my TRE
MASC -
which was another option for us 2nd. Geners that never got out of the
development stages).
The VPC's are superior to the AFC's for several
reasons. First, fuel
delivery. The VPC uses a MAP sensor to help
determine how much fuel the car
should receive. That is better than
the AFC because the Stealth/VR4 won't
experience the awkward lean conditions
that the AFC experiences under certain
loads.
Second, the VPC's are
available with a different chip for those who run
larger injectors.
The 550cc chip we use on the 2nd. Gen's idles like stock,
and will run good
mixtures with 13/15G turbos without a GCC. For those who
run larger
injectors (ie. 720cc) a GCC is available which will lean out the
fuel
mixture.
A third advantage of the VPC over the AFC is the lack of a
mass-air meter.
The VPC eliminates the stock mass-air meter and,
therefore, air can get to
the turbos easier. When I went from the
stock mass-air meter in my 1994
Stealth turbo to the 83mm air-meter I could
fell a difference in power. I
estimate I picked up a good 25hp (with
15G's) by doing away with the stock
air meter!
While we are talking
about new mods, another mod we've found to work well are
the MSD DIS 4
ignitions. We've run as high as .037 plug gap at 22psi on
Stealth/VR4s
without any spark blow-out. If we by-pass the MSD the same car
wouldn't run more than 18psi before the hesitation ruined our fun. The
only
problem with the DIS 4 is that it won't work on the Stealth/VR4
alone. It
requires a custom tack adapter kit which we're making
available with VR4
specific directions to simplify install.
Before I
go, I'd like to thank my friend Joe Cannella who let us
test/pioneree the
OBD-11 VPC and MSD on his beautiful Purple 1996 3000GT VR4!
If I can
get my hands on a scanner I'll post the pics we have of his car and
the
install of the VPC and MSD.
Hope this helps,
TTYLater,
Mike
1994
Stealth tt
11.4@122mph
www.AlteredAtmosphere.com
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:50:22 -0600
From: Andrew Brilliant <andrewb@infowest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Brembo $2g kit, was: Re: Basic brake upgrade
Here is an Idea for
helping to cool the brakes. I realize this would be a small
help
however this is going to be _Real_ cheap. I don't know about the
mechanics of this so
if this doesn't work forgive me. Heat sinks which
are used to cool CPU's in computers
are actually very effective, and 2" x2"
roughly sqaure of the material costs abou $0.50
What about something like
this attached to the Caliper with heat conductor to help cool
this off.
Even if it is a small amount, if you used 4 of em only $2 for the
whole
thing. Maybe the key here may be a few small, inexpensive things,
along with a solution
to the Pad/Rotor issue to eliminate our fade
problem.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:14:14 -0400
From: Gavin Wallis <wallisg@mwaa.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Chrome Exhaust Tips -Reply
Ansa is also good and cheap...a couple
starnet.net list members have
them...
Gavin
'94 Black
VR-4
>>> <SoCoDrnkr@aol.com> 04/20/99 09:39pm
>>>
hey bro if you want some fat tips I'd go borla, pacesetter, or
monza big
bore. If you want the stock look I am getting a new exhaust
on my 91 ES
soon
(hopefully). Keep in touch w/ me and i'll try the
same.
Dan
91 ES
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:58:08 EDT
From: Dskull@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Re: Brad's
Brake Setup
You wrote;
I take it that your successful setup
is:
Brad's Porsche caliper and brake kit
Pagid pads
Stock (!!)
rotors.
Yes, this is the setup. Brad is sending me a replacement for
the
snapped KVR rotor. I think I will have the one that did not snap AND the
new
one magnafluxed to check them for intergrity. Stock Wagner rotors seem
to
hold up fine so far. Keep in mind that the setup is new, only 150 racing
laps. I have not pulled the pads out yet to really check them, but visual
inspection shows maybe 1/8 - 1/4 pad used. I will let you know. Keep in mind
this setup WILL
squeak on the street until they are warmed up. Clearance
on the calipers in
tight. 1/16 in in some area's. I also am still using the
stock rear 1993
rotors and pads. Will upgrade to 94+ calipers and pads
shortly to help take
some braking away from the front to keep weight shift
down a little. In the
short time I have used this setup my confidence has
gone WAY up, no more
wondering if the next braking zone is where fade will
occur. I talking some
serious LATE braking, harness biting into
chest, high pucker factor. Don't
have any cooling ducts, but will put
in something shortly just to bring temps
down a bit.
Dave 93 VR4 -
Watkins Glen June 31 + July 1st :) :) :) :) :) :)
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:56:21 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Brembo $2g kit, was: Re: Basic brake upgrade
At 09:50 AM
4/21/99 -0600, you wrote:
>Here is an Idea for helping to cool the
brakes. I realize this would be a
small help
>however this is
going to be _Real_ cheap. I don't know about the
mechanics of this
so
>if this doesn't work forgive me.
I learned in the think
tanks that EVERY idea is good.
Heat sinks which are used to cool CPU's in
computers
>are actually very effective, and 2" x2" roughly sqaure of the
material
costs abou $0.50
>What about something like this attached to
the Caliper with heat conductor
to help cool
>this off. Even if
it is a small amount, if you used 4 of em only $2 for
the
whole
>thing. Maybe the key here may be a few small, inexpensive
things, along
with a solution
>to the Pad/Rotor issue to eliminate our
fade problem.
>
Maybe Andrew is on to something.
We are limited to
attaching stuff to the inner part of the caliper because
everything else is
too close to the rotor, wheel, or tire. Could we attach
a heat conductor such
as a heat pipe to draw off heat?
Rich/old poop
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:13:04 -0400
From: Gavin Wallis <WallisG@mwaa.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Brembo $2g kit, was: Re: Basic brake upgrade -Reply
uhhhh...am i the only
one who sees huge clearance issues?
>>> Andrew Brilliant <andrewb@infowest.com> 04/21/99 11:50am
>>>
Here is an Idea for helping to cool the brakes. I realize
this would be a
small help
however this is going to be _Real_ cheap.
I don't know about the
mechanics of this so
if this doesn't work forgive
me. Heat sinks which are used to cool CPU's
in computers
are
actually very effective, and 2" x2" roughly sqaure of the material
costs abou
$0.50
What about something like this attached to the Caliper with
heat
conductor to help cool
this off. Even if it is a small amount,
if you used 4 of em only $2 for the
whole
thing. Maybe the key here
may be a few small, inexpensive things, along
with a solution
to the
Pad/Rotor issue to eliminate our fade problem.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:24:13 -0400
From: Jason Barnhart <phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Shifting points/rev limiter...
I don't think the clutch is
slipping, I was launching REAL hard, 6k+ dumps with no
slipping, I'd expect
it to slip there more than anywhere. The plugs have about 3k miles
on
em, not saying they're not, but kinda doubt it. The vacuum lines seem to
be ok, not
sure about the Y-pipe. It just seems odd that most if not
all runs with speed shifts
had this affect, I was only able to watch the
boost closely twice, but it did feel
sluggish on most runs. My car felt
much stronger and ran a faster time on the only run
where I lifted off the
throttle between shifts. It may have been building proper boost
the
other weak runs, would retarded timing affect boost?
I'd rather not
get rid of the limiter, if not for it, I'm sure something would have
been
broken all to hell already. Thanks to a floor mat that moved around, the
gas pedal
would stick to it and cause me to bounce off the rev limiter for
extended periods, if
only for a second or two. Btw, I'm sure it's not
good, but is it bad to hit the
limiter, can I damage anything? I took
off behind a friend the other day, I was
spinning and when I finally hooked
up I redlined pretty quick. I hit the limiter for a
split second before
pushing the clutch in to shift to the next gear, not a speed shift
btw.
The car proceeded to backfire like crazy and mis bad, everytime I tried to rev
a
bit to keep it alive it backfired more. I cut the engine completely
to give it a few
seconds and couldn't get it restarted, I finally had to put
it in gear and let out on
the clutch to get the engine turning over at
all. It was missing like crazy, but
straightened out shortly after and
drove fine. Again, I'm sure it's not good, but this
really worried
me. Unfortunately I've got extensive experience with the limiter
(the
floor mat is now in my hatch) and it never acted like that aside from
resembling one
ocasion where it was bouncing off the limiter for upwards of 2
seconds or better, the
time it took to reach down and pull the floor mat
back.
Jason
Chris Winkley wrote:
>
Jason...
>
> Sounds like you're driving it hard. Slipping clutch?
Fouled plugs? Loose
> vacuum line? Leaking Y-pipe?
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:37:57 -0600
From: Andrew Brilliant <andrewb@infowest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Brembo $2g kit, was: Re: Basic brake upgrade-Reply
Thats why I
asked the group, I have no idea as to the clearance issues. What
about
cooling the fluid directly? a container of some kind with heat sinks to
bring down the
temp?
Gavin Wallis wrote:
> uhhhh...am i the
only one who sees huge clearance issues?
- -snip-
- --
Andrew
M. Brilliant
Webmaster
IS Department
Global Web Direct (OTC BB:
GLCO)
801-852-4961
1-800-500-1847 ext: 2961
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:25:17 -0700
From: lehir@genesiscom.ch (Genesiscon
Lehir)
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Brake failure???
Any of you guys ever
got your rotors cryo'ed ??
Best
Henri
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:01:03 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: RE: Brake failure???
Genesiscon Lehir wrote:
>
>
Any of you guys ever got your rotors cryo'ed ??
>
> Best
>
> Henri
Porterfield offers this as a $40 option on their
rotors. As of yet, no
one has mentioned that they have used
them.
- --
How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he
is lost!
Ken Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619)
455-4510
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:58:24 +0200
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: High 11's w/ stock Turbos? -Reply
Brad Bedell wrote:
>
> The "stock" turbos for the overseas (to the continental US) are
13g's.
The US-spec cars the only ones with the smaller
9Bs?
> therefore the turbos are quite a bit larger than the US
version turbos. I
> suspect the 13g's will produce at least 50hp
more than the 9b's. Which would
> be enough to get into the
11's.
Note that our last dyno session in Switzerland pitted Roger's stock
13Gs
& aftermarket exhaust against Mike's stock 9Bs & aftermarket
exhaust
against my stock 9Bs & stock exhaust. Details on the
web.
- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de
(64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top
Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb
99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:11:57 -0700
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Shifting points/rev limiter...
Jason;
Just a
thought...timing retard? Disconnect Battery/ ECU and let it reset. More than
likely
it's one of the possiblities Chris has already
mentioned.
Best
Darc
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:22:15 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: VPC --> 550cc injectors on a 96VR4
LotoBoost@aol.com wrote:
snip
>
Another option available, and a much better option, would be to run a
VPC.
> I've been installing custom VPC's on the 2nd. Gen. for a while now
and am
> glad to report they work great (to the extent I am considering
selling my TRE
> MASC - which was another option for us 2nd. Geners that
never got out of the
> development stages).
snip
This is great
news Mike. Please elaborate on the custom installation.
Are you
cutting and splicing? Installing a new connector on the VPC?
Have you
created a converter/harness that can plug into the VPC and the
2nd gen's ECU
connector? It sounds like a harness would be a good item
to fabricate
and sell.
- --
How many roads must a man travel down before he admits
he is lost!
Ken Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619)
455-4510
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:42:02 +0200
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: High 11's w/ stock Turbos?
Roger Gerl wrote:
>
>
We have 284 DIN hp here, every year. But this is because our stock cars
have
> 0.45-0.6 bars of boost stock. No differences over the years. I
think Mitsu did
> this to keep the power below 300hp as some Cantons in
Switzerland as well as
> other countries use a tax-system that looks for
the hp of the cars. Furthermore,
> the less boost the better the milage
and the better the result in tests :)
Note that 284 DIN = 320 SAE.
Euro-spec cars have bigger turbos than
U.S.-spec cars but the same peak
horsepower (much different curve,
though). Also interesting is that
this still holds true after boost is
increased above stock levels.
Again, see the dyno results for more
info.
- --
Jim Matthews -
Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de
(64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top
Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb
99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:42:02 +0200
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: High 11's w/ stock Turbos?
Roger Gerl wrote:
>
>
We have 284 DIN hp here, every year. But this is because our stock cars
have
> 0.45-0.6 bars of boost stock. No differences over the years. I
think Mitsu did
> this to keep the power below 300hp as some Cantons in
Switzerland as well as
> other countries use a tax-system that looks for
the hp of the cars. Furthermore,
> the less boost the better the milage
and the better the result in tests :)
Note that 284 DIN = 320 SAE.
Euro-spec cars have bigger turbos than
U.S.-spec cars but the same peak
horsepower (much different curve,
though). Also interesting is that
this still holds true after boost is
increased above stock levels.
Again, see the dyno results for more
info.
- --
Jim Matthews -
Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de
(64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top
Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb
99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:54:54 +0200
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Brakes - My History and Current Status
Dskull@aol.com wrote:
>
> [ ... ]
I think perhaps the increased
> sweep area of the caliper's contribute
more to perfomance than the rotor
> size. This is pure speculation on my
part. [ ... ]
Thanx for the post. Now I am looking forward to
returning to Maryland
in a few years so that I can enjoy a few laps around
Pocono and Summit.
On the other hand, I'm only an hour from
Nurburgring!
Interesting that you were happiest with the stock rotors
(cheap is good!
:-) ). I must say that I'd be pretty darn surprised if
trading my stock
'94 calipers for yours would prevent warping. And no
fade? I just
don't get it! But I sure hope it's true!!
I
considered the Pagids but thought they would be too aggressive for the
stock
rotors. Not the case? Please let me know... while
Accelerated
Accessories was quick to give me a quote on the Abex pads, they
don't
seem to be interested in taking my money and completing the
order. I
can get Pagids locally, I think.
Thanx... -Jim
- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de
(64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top
Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb
99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:05:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: George Kuo <amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Brakes - My History and Current Status
- --- Dskull@aol.com wrote:
> After trying
different techniques
> learned to either be ON the
> brakes or OFF,
no light braking then hard braking.
> Fade was reduced but would
>
return after a few hot laps.
Dave is very right. How you brake also
effect how fast the brake system
fades. I must admit I sometimes light brake
b4 a hard brake just to
check if my brake is still there.. haha
=)
George
_________________________________________________________
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You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
For
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------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:03:53 -0700
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Shifting points/rev limiter...
Jason (w/the WOT floor mat
mod) :-)
Yes, if you've run the engine into a lean condition with
boost and high
revs, the timing will retard. What I don't know is how long it
will stay
retarded. The ECU design is to compensate for "abnormal"
conditions, then
return to "normal" when the condition ceases, but that could
be five
seconds, or five minutes. Anyone know?
BTW...I'd still pull
the front plugs and check their condition. If you're
running your boost
beyond 1.0 bar, I suggest you tighten the gap down to
.034".
As Darcy
pointed out, it wouldn't hurt to pull the main fuse for an hour to
reset the
ECU. You'll be sure the ECU hasn't "learned" some strange
condition. AND, as
I'm sure you've read from Roger...major caution should be
exercised with the
lean condition causing detonation. Engine rebuilds
are
EXPENSIVE.
Looking forward...Chris
1995 Glacier Pearl White
VR4 (w/HKS Super Flo intake, TEC 15G turbos, bored
and polished throttle
body, RC 560cc injectors, HKS fuel pump, GReddy PRofec
A boost controller,
G-force ECU upgrade, HKS SBOV, custom intercoolers,
Predator dry cell
battery, Magnecore 8.5mm wires, NGK double platinum plugs
gapped at .030",
ATR downpipe and test pipe, GReddy catback exhaust, GReddy
turbo timer,
Eibach 1" drop progressive springs)
- -----Original Message-----
From:
Jason Barnhart [mailto:phnxgld@erols.com]
Sent:
Wednesday, April 21, 1999 10:24 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Shifting points/rev limiter...
<snip>
It
may have been building proper boost the other weak runs, would
retarded
timing affect boost?
Jason
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:26:09 -0500
From: "Omar Malik" <ojm@iname.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Brake
List Columns!
HTML would fix this, but that's not allowed
:(
Omar
92 r/t
> WHY did that last message show up
crappy? I had all the columns closely
> spaced yet in order, not
with 30 spaces between words and scattergrammed
> all over the
place.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 23:37:02 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject:
Team3S: Brake List
Ok, I've put a small page together with some
information. I had only a little of
time but I'm sure it will grow with more
information soon.
http://homepage.swissonline.ch/3000gt/3s_brakes.html
Please
let me know your input on that (prices, sizes, etc.) and I'll put it
on.
Regards,
- -----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
K&N FIPK,Magnecor
wires,Blitz DSBC/gauge/Dual Timer,Apexi AFC,HKS SBOV,
ATR DP/ tespipe,Borla
Cat-back,OZ Mito2 rims,Yoko AVS-Z1,braided brake lines,
Bremsa brakes,Pagid
RS-R pads
Check out: http://homepage.swissonline.ch/3000gt
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:14:25 -0700
From: "Dave Allison" <dallison@siebel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Brakes - My History and Current Status
Accelerated Accessories
wasted no time taking MY money. The charge
to my card showed up the day after
I ordered and a week before I received a
single part! Made me a bit nervuous
to be honest.
It sounds as if the Pagids are the way to go then. Does
anyone know
how much these run and what part number/type to
order?
Thanks.
Dave Allison
>-----Original
Message-----
>From: Matthews [mailto:matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de]
>Sent:
Wednesday, April 21, 1999 11:55 AM
>To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>Subject:
Re: Team3S: Brakes - My History and Current Status
>
>I considered
the Pagids but thought they would be too aggressive for the
>stock
rotors. Not the case? Please let me know... while
Accelerated
>Accessories was quick to give me a quote on the Abex pads,
they don't
>seem to be interested in taking my money and completing the
order. I
>can get Pagids locally, I think.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:22:57 -0700
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Message Format
xwing wrote:
> WHY did that last
message show up crappy? I had all the columns closely
> spaced yet
in order, not with 30 spaces between words and scattergrammed
> all over
the place. Others have had theirs this way too, it is annoying
> and
a detriment to our list! Maybe someone can help us on this to
avoid
> problems in future? This is not a car topic but does impact
on the
> quality of list messages. Sorry to those who think it
unimportant.
One of the more recent versions of Netscape (I use ver.
4.5)
helps to eliminate this problem. Also, it might have been
because
your columns were too wide. I have noticed other people on
the
list also writing with really wide columns which then get cropped
by
either the maillist server and/or my browser. I never write my
lines
past the "Decrease Indent" button on Netscape's toolbar.
But I'm not sure if
these things totally explain why your post turned
out so messy.
-
--Errin Humphrey
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:42:55 -0500
From: Ken Taft <kentaft@cwix.com>
Subject: Team3S:
short shifter
Jose, I interested in your shifter send me your private
e-mail because i
deleted it. Also tell me more about this shifter and how
difficult it is to
install it. Thanks Ken
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:51:49 -0400
From: "Meyer" <meyer2@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Brakes - My History and Current Status
Dave et.al.
Our policy is to
process charges when products are shipped. It takes a week
for shipping from
coast to coast.
Frank
www.AcceleratedAccessories.com
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Allison <dallison@siebel.com>
To: 'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date:
Wednesday, April 21, 1999 7:17 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Brakes - My History
and Current Status
> Accelerated Accessories wasted no time taking
MY money. The charge
>to my card showed up the day after I ordered and a
week before I received a
>single part! Made me a bit nervuous to be
honest.
>
> It sounds as if the Pagids are the way to go then. Does
anyone know
>how much these run and what part number/type to
order?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Dave
Allison
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Matthews
[mailto:matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de]
>>Sent:
Wednesday, April 21, 1999 11:55 AM
>>To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>>Subject:
Re: Team3S: Brakes - My History and Current Status
>>
>>I
considered the Pagids but thought they would be too aggressive for
the
>>stock rotors. Not the case? Please let me know...
while Accelerated
>>Accessories was quick to give me a quote on the
Abex pads, they don't
>>seem to be interested in taking my money and
completing the order. I
>>can get Pagids locally, I
think.
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:41:02 +1200
From: Kevin Clark <Kevin.Clark@hnz.co.nz>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: ABS vs NonABS
> A 'perfect' ABS system would stop the car
in the shortest distance
> possible by keeping the tires from sliding,
thus the coefficient of
> friction the highest.
This is correct
under general conditions. The only time that
ABS actually increases the
stoping distance is on un-sealed
roads (loose gravel) and possibly snow
(don't get much of it
over here). Under these conditions it is actually
advantageous
to have the wheels lock up and thus "dig" through the
loose
surface.
Anyone having tried to break hard on a gravel pitch
will be
able to back me up on this, best thing to do is to flick the
car
sideways a little, assuming the gravel is not deep or you
may roll
:(
Cheers,
Kevin Clark
'91 GTO-VR4 <-- been
through many a gravel road
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------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:49:39 -0400
From: Irving & Ana Jimenez <lt1power@crystal.palace.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: 550cc injectors on a 96VR4
> Del is absolutely right. Use
an AFC to tweak the ECU and to tune in the proper
> fuel delivery or get
the ECU modified ($$$). There is also a good AF computer
> from Field that
includes A/F meter and a G-Tech function ! The Supra guys love
> it
:)
Question :
What kind of fuel mileage ( M.P.G. ) you guys
getting with the 550cc Injectors ?
Irving
96 VR4
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------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:46:41 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: RE: ABS vs NonABS
>This is correct under general
conditions. The only time that
>ABS actually increases the stoping
distance is on un-sealed
>roads (loose gravel) and possibly snow (don't
get much of it
>over here). Under these conditions it is actually
advantageous
>to have the wheels lock up and thus "dig" through the
loose
>surface.Anyone having tried to break hard on a gravel pitch will
be
able to back me up on this, best thing to do is to flick the
car
sideways a little, assuming the gravel is not deep or you
may roll
:(
>
In all the years we ran Pro rallys, we NEVER had a brake
problem. Reason:
We didn't use them much. As Kevin points out, as you
approach a turn on a
gravel road or in snow at speed, you put the car
sideways and let the tires
scrub off the speed. If you slam on the brakes,
it's likely to lock the
front wheels, and then you can't steer it.
Here's the drill, as best as I can remember, for approaching a 90 deg
right
turn in the forest on gravel, dirt, sand, ice, or snow at 80 mph in a
1972
Datsun 510 rally car:
1. Let off, tap the brakes, downshift to
3rd.
2. Saw the wheel first to the right, then to the left (like skiing
--
you're setting the edges) to get the car to rotate around
sideways,
pointing at the entrance to the turn. We're now doing about 45-50
mph,
sliding sideways at about a 45 deg angle, with the car pointed to the
right.
3. Control the slide with the throttle. Too fast, let off and let the
car
slew a little more sideways to scrub off speed. Too slow, more throttle
to
drive toward the apex. (It sounds kinda like voopa, voopa, voopa as
you
constantly correct with the throttle). The slide doesn't last long --
maybe
2-5 seconds. As you apex the corner with the right front fender
just
clipping the stop sign at about 35-40 mph, bang it into 2nd gear and
floor
it. The left rear corner will slide right out to the edge and maybe
nick a
tree or two. As we rallyists always said, "if you don't have any dents
in
your rear quarter panels, you ain't going fast enough!"
The best
piece of equipment we ever put in our 510 was a 4:44 240Z limited
slip diff
from Datsun Competition. It made it ever so much easier to get
and keep the
car sideways. On most rallyes, the car rarely points straight
ahead anyway.
In the twisty bits, it's always sideways one way or another,
'specially in
the snow.
Today's rally cars, with their AWD and FWD, corner a lot
differently than
we did with our old RWD cars. To watch John Buffum fling a
1970s-era RWD
works Escort through a hairpin turn on gravel was to see a
thing of beauty
and exquisite car control at the very limit.
Open
track driving is a lot of fun, but not very scary. Rallying can be
VERY
scary.
Rich/old poop/the older I get, the faster I was.
Sigh.
Nostalgia just isn't what it used to be.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:59:46 -0500
From: Del A Kolasinski <pearlvr42c@juno.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: 550cc injectors on a 96VR4
With bigger injectors, pump, etc.
under normal driving conditions you
should see NO difference in your
MPG. HOWEVER, when driving under boost
with a bigger fuel system, and
the other mods, (boost controller, etc.)
you WILL see a drop off in gas
mileage. Because after all the purpose of
bigger injectors is to get
more fuel into the combustion chamber when it
is needed under high boost
driving. I personally see my gas mileage drop
when I turn my EVC on,
and that is a stock fuel system.
Del
PEARLVR42C@juno.com
wisc.dsm.org
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------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:24:23 -0400
From: Brian Danley <bcdmad@concentric.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: tranny leak
I did. The part you need is this one
it's only like
http://www.concentric.net/~Bcdmad/tranny1.jpg
$4-$5 from Tallahassee Mits.
I couldn't figure out how it got out ... and
I still can't figure out how
it goes in. I put it in Backwards and it
works. I'll be taking out the
tranny soon for a new throwout bearing
and will fix it the right way.
Brian
Subject: Team3S: tranny
leak
I've recently developed a little leak from the tranny on my '91
VR4. It
is leaking out of the side closest to the passenger wheel above
the
drain plug. It appears that some sort of plug is missing. Has
anyone
else experienced a leak from this area and is there a plug of some
sort
that might be missing?
Thanks,
Ken
- --
Two wrongs
don't make a right, but three lefts do!
Ken Middaugh
General
Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
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------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 21 Apr 1999 23:39:24 -0500
From: "Omar Malik" <ojm@iname.com>
Subject: Team3S: Wheels and
other brainstorm schtuff, was: Basic brake upgrade
On a side note. For
those that would have a chance to get new wheels, I
guess it would be common
sense to get some with thinner and fewer spokes.
Let those brakes breathe.
Could some clearance issues be solved by getting
wheels with smaller offset?
Or would that be a negligable factor?
Maybe some sort of "brake-turbo"
system could be jerry rigged. Say, to take
any exhaust gas vented by the
waste gate and send it through a _very_ small
turbo, which would compress air
and send it to the brakes, thus cooling the
brakes during on-the-gas runs.
Would there be enough pressure from the
wastegates to get a small turbo
spinning. If so, would it be more then air
coming in from custom ducts in
front of the car, to be at the least, more
effective? Would any air being
compressed by the turbo be heated up by
compression or the turbo housing to
the point it would be ineffective?
I liked the idea of active cooling
with coolant. is there enough space for
say a 2 x 2 x 1/2 inch square piece
to be attached to the caliper, with
coolant tubes flowing
through?
Maybe some sort of vanes could be attached to the wheels to
direct airflow
in through the spokes? Would this effect aerodynamics or turn
radius? (I
reckon it would, but to what extent?)
Just some extreme
thoughts off the top of my head here. Let me know if these
ideas are in no
way viable/effective or even sane!
Omar
92 r/t
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:58:33 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Wheels and other brainstorm schtuff, was: Basic brake
upgrade
At 11:39 PM 4/21/99 -0500, Omar wrote:
For those that would
have a chance to get new wheels, I
>guess it would be common sense to get
some with thinner and fewer spokes.
>Let those brakes breathe. Could some
clearance issues be solved by getting
>wheels with smaller offset? Or
would that be a negligable factor?
Good question. Do aftermarket wheels
have more clearance for the Porsche
calipers?
As I understand it, the
stock wheels only have 1/16 in. clearance.
>
>I liked the idea of
active cooling with coolant. is there enough space for
>say a 2 x 2 x 1/2
inch square piece to be attached to the caliper, with
>coolant tubes
flowing through?
I've always wondered about this myself. Seems like the
brake fluid stays in
the calipers, where it gets cooked constantly, until it
turns black and has
to be bled off. Why can't brake fluid be circulated or
cooled?
>
>Maybe some sort of vanes could be attached to the wheels
to direct airflow
>in through the spokes? Would this effect aerodynamics
or turn radius? (I
>reckon it would, but to what extent?)
I think
Formula 1 wheels do this very thing. They serve as a big vacuum
cleaner to
suck air from the wheelwell out through the spokes, thus setting
up airflow
across the rotors. Where's our Formula 1 expert?
>
>Just some
extreme thoughts off the top of my head here. Let me know if these
>ideas
are in no way viable/effective or even sane!
All ideas are welcome, and
there is no such thing as a bad idea. Thanks for
yours.
Rich/old
poop/94 VR4
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------------------------------
End
of Team3S Digest V1 #159
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