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From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: "Ken Middaugh" <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>,
"Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Cc: "Ken Middaugh - Home" <kmiddaugh@ixpres.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Injector duty & new Apexi AVC-R
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:25:23 +0200
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Hi Ken,
>monitoring of up to 4 different channels simultaneously in simulated analog
> gauge (max 2 simultaneously), digitial readout (with hold & peak hold
features),
What are the 4 channels ?? I know IDC% but what else ?
>things I've noticed is that at WOT the injector duty cycle will hit 100% at
>about 5000 RPM, regardless of boost setting (well maybe only 90% at 9psi).
At WOT the ECU just selects the values from a table with only regarding the
air mass information. This values are always very rich and max the injectors
totally out to 100% around 5200, depending on the ambient.
>I have a few of questions for those of you with DataLoggers and EGT gauges:
can
>I really run boost at1.05 kg/cm^2 at 5000+ RPM even though the IDC maxes
out
>(will I be too lean and/or encounter detonation)? Is it safe to run higher
>boost, say 1.15 or 1.20 from 2500-4000 RPM, then decrease to 1.05 or even
.95 by
>5000+ RPM?
Full power is around 5500 to 6000 but the torque alrteady comes down then
and the torque area is where normally knock is found. A lot people where
suprised we find knock above this area and this is why it is called high
speed knock.
When I run 1.05bar max (peak) with about 1.00bar sustained boost the
injectors are always maxed out heavily. But the logs show that the knock
amount counted by the ECU is not enough for causing the ECU to do anything.
The timing gets retarded for knock sums above 18-20 by only 2-3 degrees but
this never happens with 1.05 peak. Also the O2 sensor always shows a rich
value of 0.90 - 0.94 volts. Increasing boost to 1.1 peak (with 1.05
sustained) knock increases up to 36 and the timing is retarded by around 4-5
degrees due to this. The O2 voltage drops to 0.86-0.88 volts what is still
in the good range.
>I did notice on Roger's recent datalogger plot that he appears to reach
100% IDC
>at about 5200 RPM and knock detection at about 5800 RPM. Perhaps I should
set
>boost to .95 at 5500+ RPM even though 9B's may not hold that.
Unfortunately, I can't log the boost already (I need a second notebook) and
this is why I can't say hjow much boost I had during the logs but for sure
the sustained boost was still there when knock started at 5500. It didn't
went away up to 6400 where I usually have to slow down. The most knock is
found in 3rd (1st gen) although some is also found in 1st and second (peak
situation). With boost peak to 1.05kg/cm2 there is no knock in the lower
gears.
Mike has an EGT in the front turbo and at the Autobahn with very high speed
he noticed the temp to go up heavily (can't remember if it was 850) Also on
the dyno we saw the timing retarded at 1.05 and he couldn't reach the power
like mine or Jims Stealth. He then pulled the plugs (the thing was damn hot)
and the within an hour we regapped the plugs to 0.034 and the retard went
away on the first test run. The recorded dyno run then was done on less than
1.00 kg/cm2 and this is why his curve is lower than the others. As he drove
back on the autobahn he saw lower EGTs then with the same boost as before.
With the ability to set boost even on different rpm you should adapt this to
the torque curve. Take Jims dyno sheet and increase boost at the valley
between 3000 and 4800 to flatten it out on the higher level. Maybe 5-7% as
the max torque decrease was about 7%. This would be around 1.12 bar on this
level. 3000 should not be higher as then the hearable knock would start
there at first.
Therefore the settings can be the following for a start :
2700 : 1.05
4200 : 1.12
5000 : 1.05
5200 : 1.00
5500 : 1.00
This is just an idea and you can use the other three settigns for more in
the higher area but as you said, the 9B will probably not be able to hold
boost.
Let us know how the thing works
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 1 06:23:06 1999
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From: "Wendlandt, Mark (MN51)" <MWendlan@cfsmo.honeywell.com>
To: "'Dr. John A. Tabler'" <jtabler@summitmicro.com>,
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: transfer case fluid level
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:22:36 -0500
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John,
>I am envisioning some sort of turkey baster + length of small plastic hose
arrangement to
>refill it... There has GOT to be a better way. Any suggestions?
If you go to any Auto Parts store you can get a pump that will screw on top
of the gear lube container. It has a hose that you can then put into the
fill hole and pump away.
Mark Wendlandt
'91RT/TT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark Wendlandt Honeywell CASSPO-Inertial Support
Phone: 612-957-3736 Pager: 612-601-0881
Email: Mark.Wendlandt@cfsmo.honeywell.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 1 07:22:19 1999
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From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
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To: "Dr. John A. Tabler" <jtabler@summitmicro.com>
CC: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: transfer case fluid level
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John;
You got a reply to the first part of your request ("get it an an auto parts store", etc)
but no one bothered with the second request. Liquids are a matter of preference, but
Redline seems to be as much preferred in this application as Mobil 1 is preferred in
the engine. Redline MT-90 is most often suggested on this list for the tranny, and
Redline Super heavy duty for the transfer case and rear end. Some have opted for the GM
synthetic in the tranny, or if available, a product called BG Synchroshift. The latter
is purportedly the best but is seldom availed. Check Porshe dealers for it.
Best
Darc
Dr. John A. Tabler wrote:
> I am having trouble with the check/fill port on my front transfer
> case. The port is situated so that I really can't get at it to inspect
> the fluid level. I've tried dental mirrors and all sorts of gadgets.
> I think I might just drain the fluid and replace it with the specified
> volume, but even access for filling is tricky. I am envisioning some
> sort of turkey baster + length of small plastic hose arrangement to
> refill it... There has GOT to be a better way. Any suggestions?
>
> I have a '92 VR-4. The level should be about 0.5" below the hole. As
> the transfer case thickness is about 3/4", I can't even get my finger in
> there. The Mitsubishi book indicates that beginning in 1993 a third
> 'level check' port was added, and the proper level at the new port is
> flush with the bottom of the hole. uh-hu.
>
> I'm going to check the rear axle fluid level as well. Any suggestions
> on replacement fluids?
>
> Thanks,
> JAT
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 1 08:42:37 1999
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From: Dennis Moore <stealth@kiva.net>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Recommended Fluids (tranny and other)
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Check out the following write-up for info on recommended fluids.
http://www.3si.org/fluids.html
Dennis Moore
stealth@kiva.net
93 Stealth ES
> >
> > I'm going to check the rear axle fluid level as well. Any suggestions
> > on replacement fluids?
> >
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 1 08:50:21 1999
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:43:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Team3S: Injector duty & new Apexi AVC-R
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Gentlemen:
I too have purchased and installed (thanks to the incredible help of Darc
and Barry, I might add) the new AVC-R. It is an incredible piece of
electronics, with a host of settings and displays. I'll try to answer a
couple of these, but be fair warned, it's all very new to me, I'm new at
this, as I'm used to American built V8's, many moons ago.
>>monitoring of up to 4 different channels simultaneously in simulated
>analog
>> gauge (max 2 simultaneously), digitial readout (with hold & peak
>hold
>features),
>
>What are the 4 channels ?? I know IDC% but what else ?
As stated, the unit allows you to view one or two real time data
parameters at once. In the "two" mode, you can monitor boost/throttle,
rpm/VDC, and vehicle speed/IDC . I have been running with the boost and
throttle (which gives rpm) displays showing, along with the peak hold
feature set, to monitor boost spikes as the unit is still in the learning
mode. I've found it helpful to use the actual number displays, versus
the analog gauge display (just easier for me to check). The graph
display and replay feature are interesting to review and see how the run
went in 2-D or 3-D. The unit also allows you to toggle between monitor
and setting to, in my situation, alter the BADC. Right now mine is in
self learn at 66% BADC, in all ranges, except 3000, where I am
experimenting with 68% in this range. On average, I'm sticking between
0.99 and 1.04 boost. Still much to do though, including Gear Judge
Setting and specific Boost Control RPM Setting, which, if I'm following
this right, allows you to set parameters specific to the gears and alter
rpm ranges up or down (i.e., 1500-9000), and in 500 increments.
<<snip -- over my head Roger>>
>With the ability to set boost even on different rpm you should adapt
>this to
>the torque curve. Take Jims dyno sheet and increase boost at the
>valley
>between 3000 and 4800 to flatten it out on the higher level. Maybe
>5-7% as
>the max torque decrease was about 7%. This would be around 1.12 bar on
>this
>level. 3000 should not be higher as then the hearable knock would
>start
>there at first.
>
>Therefore the settings can be the following for a start :
>2700 : 1.05
>4200 : 1.12
>5000 : 1.05
>5200 : 1.00
>5500 : 1.00
>
>This is just an idea and you can use the other three settigns for more
>in
>the higher area but as you said, the 9B will probably not be able to
>hold
>boost.
This is interesting as SOTP setting for me was 70% BADC at 1 bar. The
unit has learned back up close to that and with a couple of spikes, I
backed it down. As the unit has learned, the spikes are reappearing in a
lower BADC. I've noticed the want (need? Hehe) to move the rpm range
down and try increase power sooner/lower and then let it taper off, like
2500-3500 range. Once I hit 3500, most is behind me. Is this "wrong?"
Do tell.
Thanks, and best regards,
Scott
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 1 10:29:37 1999
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All,
Just wanted to say. I used to be on the starnet/dragnet lists a couple years
ago when I had my 92 Stealth RT/TT. At that time there seemed to be very few
3Si owners that were interested in performance. Most questions on the list seemed
to be about stereo modifications and other non, performance issues. Heck, I
HAD the 4th fastest 3Si recorded when I got off the list and it was only a 12.72
second 1/4 mile!
Now I find that I've been bumped well down the list of quickest 3si's and I'm
happy to see it happen. The state of performance modifications on our cars has
evolved from DIY bleeder valves and aftermarket exhausts to modifying the stock
fuel mix, using real boost controllers, etc.
Can't wait to go to one of those Bay Area Gatherings (and WCG's for that matter)
and meet up with some other people that are working on taking an excellent sports
car to the limits.
Nissa
95 VR-4 with Speed Dimples
Don't mess in the affairs of dragons.
For you are crunchy and go good with ketchup.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 1 10:40:47 1999
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Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 10:40:42 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
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To: Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Injector duty & new Apexi AVC-R
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> What are the 4 channels ?? I know IDC% but what else ?
You can select 1, 2, 3, or 4 parameters for simultaneous real-time display. The
update rate is very fast, I'd guess at least 15-20Hz. Any combination from the
following 6 parameters can be selected in any order: boost, RPM, vehicle speed,
throttle position (voltage), solenoid valve duty cycle, and injector duty %. If
you display in the "analog meter" display, you can only see a max of 2 (the
first 2) parameters at once. The digital number display and graphs will show up
to 4 parameters simultaneously. In analog meter & digital number mode, there is
a peak hold feature and a manual hold feature. In the graph mode, there is a
record/replay mode. It will record 60 seconds for 1 channel, 30 for 2, 20 for
3, and 15 seconds for 4 channels. Using the digital number with peak hold, I
discovered that the boost only reaches a fraction of the set boost in 1st & 2nd
WOT runs.
There is also a mode where you can display a graph with one of the above
parameters on the Y axis against RPM on the X axis. In this mode, you can
select 1 point, 10 point (it looks like a snake moving around the graph), or
ghost trace where all points remain illuminated until reset. You can also do a
manual hold, but I'm not sure if the peak hold works on this display. It was
with this graph in ghost trace that I could determine the RPM where my IDC
usually hit 100%.
<good information snipped>
>
> Therefore the settings can be the following for a start :
> 2700 : 1.05
> 4200 : 1.12
> 5000 : 1.05
> 5200 : 1.00
> 5500 : 1.00
Ahhh, there are limitations :). RPM ranges are in increments of 500 and boost
settings are in 0.05 kg/cm^2 increments. You bring up an interesting idea
though of selecting settings to deliver a smooth torque curve. I originally was
thinking of peaking early then reducing to safe levels but this would result in
a more erratic torque curve.
--
Drive faster, it is later than you think!
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 2 13:13:49 1999
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From: "Wallis, Gavin" <WallisG@MWAA.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Newby/General FAQ
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:13:52 -0400
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Ok, head honcho Bob Forrest has graciously donated some web-space for a
Newby/General FAQ.
I've looked at the 3000gt.com "Modifications" section and think it's
probably best to just have a single FAQ/document page that we can point
people to and say "to answer your question goto:
www.bobforrest.com/3sifaq.html and search for keyword xxx".
Thus, please e-mail me all the newby questions around that you can think of.
I'll compile a list with some answers and send it to Mr. Forrest. Afterwards
he can throw it up somewhere and we can all proof it and make improvements.
>From now on we can cut back extra e-mail even more so.
One thing to remember: These really should not be overly debatable
topics/questions. Lets stick to general, agreed upon, simple things that are
a pain to type 100x a week and clutter the list. Either way, when there are
differing opinions, ALL of them will be in the FAQ.
Examples:
What's the general going price of a K&N FIPK?
What's a decent website to order parts from? (will list all that come
forward of course)
What's a 15g turbo?
What's a VPC?
How do I unsubscribe? <g>
What's this I hear about ground control springs?
Is Roger a ex-Mitsubishi engineer? <g>
I suppose this FAQ will quickly get ridiculously out of hand and kill all
lists. Oh well, let us give it a shot anyways :).
Thanks,
Gavin
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 2 13:54:10 1999
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From: "Wallis, Gavin" <WallisG@MWAA.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Zoink! Oops...FAQ Stuff...please read before sending questions
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:54:11 -0400
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Forgot a little something. Send your answers with your questions :).
People who have already sent questions I have not encountered a question I
could not answer so don't worry.
Gavin
p.s. should we do a downloadable file or web page?
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 2 14:10:43 1999
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Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 23:07:51 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Zoink! Oops...FAQ Stuff...please read before sending
questions
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> Forgot a little something. Send your answers with your questions :).
I think it's good to gather the questions first and to provide the answers
sooner (you'll get my list in a minute, hehe). I'm sure someone will find much
better words than me to describe something but I wil las good as I can. But hey
this takes some time and I think even some answers are discussable :)
For the downloadable file, I'd say to give them this oppurtunity but a linked
page that allows you to read the contents and lick onto the question to jump
down the list for the answer is also good (like one of the many f-body FAQ)
Just my FF 0.20
Roger
93'3000GT TT
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 2 17:23:43 1999
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From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Need Help with Super AVC-R Plumbing
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:20:02 -0500
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I assume that pressure fed to the w.g. actuator tends to open the
w.g. causing exhaust to bypass the turbine, thus reducing boost.=20
Then to increase boost, the solenoid vents the pressure to an
ambient air passage in the inlet.
As I see it with the AEPXi system, the pressurized air should go
to the "NO" port of the solenoid; the "COM" port should be routed
to both w.g. actuators; and the "NC" port should vent to ambient.
Then energizing the solenoid will facilitate an increase in boost.
Now to my dilemma: The OEM system routes the pressurized
air to the w.g. actuators through an orifice in the "H" fitting.=20
This makes sense because it impedes the flow of pressurized=20
air to the w.g. actuators when the actuator is energized (venting).
However there are two places in the confusing APEXi manual
that say the supplied orifice should be installed in the "NC"
port, which vents to the atmosphere. This I don=92t understand.
If the pressurized air supply has enough flow capacity, venting
to the atmosphere through an orifice will not reduce the pressure
to the w.g. actuators, resulting in no boost increase.
Can someone help me with this? If anyone knows the answer to
my questions but doesn=92t want to type an e-mail response,
please post your phone number, and I=92ll call you for your
advice. Thanks in advance for any help.
Regards,
ptg
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>
<P>I assume that pressure fed to the w.g. actuator tends to open the</P>
<P>w.g. causing exhaust to bypass the turbine, thus reducing boost. </P>
<P>Then to increase boost, the solenoid vents the pressure to an</P>
<P>ambient air passage in the inlet.</P>
<P>As I see it with the AEPXi system, the pressurized air should go</P>
<P>to the "NO" port of the solenoid; the "COM" port =
should=20
be routed</P>
<P>to both w.g. actuators; and the "NC" port should vent to=20
ambient.</P>
<P>Then energizing the solenoid will facilitate an increase in =
boost.</P>
<P>Now to my dilemma: The OEM system routes the pressurized</P>
<P>air to the w.g. actuators through an orifice in the "H" =
fitting.=20
</P>
<P>This makes sense because it impedes the flow of pressurized </P>
<P>air to the w.g. actuators when the actuator is energized =
(venting).</P>
<P>However there are two places in the confusing APEXi manual</P>
<P>that say the supplied orifice should be installed in the =
"NC"</P>
<P>port, which vents to the atmosphere. This I don’t =
understand.</P>
<P>If the pressurized air supply has enough flow capacity, venting</P>
<P>to the atmosphere through an orifice will not reduce the pressure</P>
<P>to the w.g. actuators, resulting in no boost increase.</P>
<P>Can someone help me with this? If anyone knows the answer to</P>
<P>my questions but doesn’t want to type an e-mail response,</P>
<P>please post your phone number, and I’ll call you for your</P>
<P>advice. Thanks in advance for any help.</P>
<P>Regards,</P>
<P><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>ptg</FONT></P></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 2 19:24:56 1999
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From: "Omar Malik" <ojm@iname.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: i think i broke it
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:23:25 -0500
Message-ID: <NDBBIMNBJKHKKNBKNCIKEEMHCNAA.ojm@iname.com>
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i have a 92 r/t non turbo. i think i screwed up somewhere big time. i
decided to go ahead and follow the combustion chamber cleaning procedure
listed on dsm.org at http://www.outreach.psu.edu/users/res122/DSM/ to clean
out my engine. i followed everything pretty much to the T. except i let it
soak for about 12 hours. replaced the plugs with autolite double platinum,
gapped at .045 (sorry, can't afford NGKs right now.) after a minute of
trying to start, it finally fired up. When i saw smoke, i thought it was the
extra cleaner burning off. But it didn't go away. now i've got this very
thick white smoke pouring out when ever i give it gas. if i start it up and
idle, it doesn't happen till i let it sit for a while, or increase RPMs, but
after i let off, it continues heavily even at idle. seems like it happens
only when the exhaust pipes are warmed up. i'm hoping it's just extra
cleaner in the exhaust manifold burning off, but is there any way to tell if
it is in fact coolant? Any kind of smell in the exhuast? so far, it just
smells like regular exhaust, with a pungeant chemical smell, like the
cleaner.
if i have a blown head gasket, when/how did it happen? maybe there was a
leak in it hidden by carbon deposits that opened up when i cleaned (is that
even possible)? could it in any way be caused by the spark plug gap i'm
running.
i know alot of the cleaner was pushed out of the exhaust ports into the
exhaust manifold/downpipes, i'm hoping it's that. aargh. i've let it idle
for almost 10 minutes, even took it out for a short run, but it's still
smoking. any way to check if it's a blown head gasket, other then taking it
to a shop? i don't even want to drive it anywhere right now, i'd be too
embarassed by this big white cloud behind me. i don't think anyone on the
road would appreciate it either..
am i the first 3SIer to try this procedure?
Omar
92 r/t
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 2 20:29:48 1999
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Reply-To: <mdorsey@mindspring.com>
From: "Michael" <mdorsey@mindspring.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Possible fuel cut
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 23:29:29 -0400
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I think I'm running into fuel cut, and would like know exactly how it feels
and the after effects. When running WOT with approx 1.00 bar of boost, the
car will sometimes quit accelerating (almost feels like it slipped out of
gear). I always immiediately let off the gas, and the car recovers like
nothing happened. Can anyone give me some more insight on this.
For some history on the car, the timing belt tensioner broke about a month
ago and a dealer in OH had the heads machined and 20 of the 24 valves
replaced. I don't have a lot of faith in their work for various reasons.
>From what I understand, fuel cut is cause by knock, so is it possible that
they did something wrong that would cause the engine create more knock at
lower boost (1 bar). I also haven't regapped the plugs since they put new
ones in, if that makes a difference. Also, the car has never seen more that
1.02 bars of boost and I rarely let it get up to 1 bar.
Michael
98 VR4, Blitz DSBC, K&N FIPK, Borla cat-back
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<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D692501703-03091999>I =
think I'm running=20
into fuel cut, and would like know exactly how it feels and the after=20
effects. When running WOT with approx 1.00 bar of boost, the car =
will=20
sometimes quit accelerating (almost feels like it slipped out of =
gear). I=20
always immiediately let off the gas, and the car recovers like nothing=20
happened. Can anyone give me some more insight on=20
this.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D692501703-03091999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D692501703-03091999>For =
some history on=20
the car, the timing belt tensioner broke about a month ago and a dealer =
in OH=20
had the heads machined and 20 of the 24 valves replaced. I don't =
have a=20
lot of faith in their work for various reasons. From what I =
understand,=20
fuel cut is cause by knock, so is it possible that they did something =
wrong that=20
would cause the engine create more knock at lower boost (1 bar). I =
also=20
haven't regapped the plugs since they put new ones in, if that makes a=20
difference. Also, the car has never seen more that 1.02 bars of =
boost and=20
I rarely let it get up to 1 bar.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D692501703-03091999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D692501703-03091999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D692501703-03091999>Michael</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D692501703-03091999>98 =
VR4, Blitz DSBC,=20
K&N FIPK, Borla cat-back</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 2 21:19:37 1999
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From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: <mdorsey@mindspring.com>, <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Possible fuel cut
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:17:24 -0700
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Hey Michael;
Fuel cut should about put you throught the window when it occurs, or at =
the least have you eat your steering wheel. Something else is up here in =
my estimate, and a bit more detailed information would help those who =
want to try and daignose it. I don't know about others, but imagining is =
difficult for me, so you have to really spell it out.
Best
Darc
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael <mdorsey@mindspring.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Thursday, September 02, 1999 8:29 PM
Subject: Team3S: Possible fuel cut
=20
=20
I think I'm running into fuel cut, and would like know exactly how =
it feels and the after effects. When running WOT with approx 1.00 bar =
of boost, the car will sometimes quit accelerating (almost feels like it =
slipped out of gear). I always immiediately let off the gas, and the =
car recovers like nothing happened. Can anyone give me some more =
insight on this.
=20
For some history on the car, the timing belt tensioner broke about a =
month ago and a dealer in OH had the heads machined and 20 of the 24 =
valves replaced. I don't have a lot of faith in their work for various =
reasons. From what I understand, fuel cut is cause by knock, so is it =
possible that they did something wrong that would cause the engine =
create more knock at lower boost (1 bar). I also haven't regapped the =
plugs since they put new ones in, if that makes a difference. Also, the =
car has never seen more that 1.02 bars of boost and I rarely let it get =
up to 1 bar.
=20
=20
Michael
98 VR4, Blitz DSBC, K&N FIPK, Borla cat-back
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hey Michael;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Fuel cut should about put you throught the window =
when it=20
occurs, or at the least have you eat your steering wheel. Something else =
is up=20
here in my estimate, and a bit more detailed information would =
help those=20
who want to try and daignose it. I don't know about others, but =
imagining is=20
difficult for me, so you have to really spell it out.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Best</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Darc</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
</B>Michael <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:mdorsey@mindspring.com">mdorsey@mindspring.com</A>><BR>=
<B>To:=20
</B><A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com">stealth-3000gt@list.sirius=
.com</A>=20
<<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com">stealth-3000gt@list.sirius=
.com</A>><BR><B>Date:=20
</B>Thursday, September 02, 1999 8:29 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Team3S: =
Possible=20
fuel cut<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D692501703-03091999>I =
think I'm=20
running into fuel cut, and would like know exactly how it feels and =
the=20
after effects. When running WOT with approx 1.00 bar of boost, =
the car=20
will sometimes quit accelerating (almost feels like it slipped out =
of=20
gear). I always immiediately let off the gas, and the car =
recovers=20
like nothing happened. Can anyone give me some more insight on =
this.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D692501703-03091999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D692501703-03091999>For some history=20
on the car, the timing belt tensioner broke about a month ago and a =
dealer=20
in OH had the heads machined and 20 of the 24 valves replaced. =
I don't=20
have a lot of faith in their work for various reasons. From =
what I=20
understand, fuel cut is cause by knock, so is it possible that they =
did=20
something wrong that would cause the engine create more knock at =
lower boost=20
(1 bar). I also haven't regapped the plugs since they put new =
ones in,=20
if that makes a difference. Also, the car has never seen more =
that=20
1.02 bars of boost and I rarely let it get up to 1 =
bar.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D692501703-03091999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D692501703-03091999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D692501703-03091999>Michael</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D692501703-03091999>98 =
VR4, Blitz=20
DSBC, K&N FIPK, Borla=20
cat-back</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BEF588.8CF86900--
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 05:28:14 1999
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Subject: Team3S: OBD II year; Atomic Motorsports
References: <AFCD395A19B7D2118E0900902732D17E56071E@cffsr011.cf> <19990902082130.A18978@aracnet.com> <37CEA598.5428@gate.net>
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94 is different connectors, slightly different computer than 91-93 but is
NOT OBD II. These can be made to work with VPC, GCC, for
larger injectors/to get rid of fuelcut. I know how to do it, as does Mike
Mahaffey of Altered Atmospheres.
BTW, since my buddy Paul (owns a Supra TT, and a hardware store
with work space :) and I keep spending way too much money on car
stuff, we finally decided to form a "Company" so as to get parts at
a discount mainly for our own habits. However, if anybody wants to
buy parts and the knowledge I have to go with them, feel free to drop
me a line. We will have a website http://www.atomicmotorsports.com
(will be our first website effort so feel free to laugh).
No attempts to take over the world of performance cars, probably can't
get stuff cheaper than most other places--just for fun and no BS...if a
few
people of high quality--who take their fun seriously--want to deal with us
that is fine. Just think of all the cool logos that could go with the
name...hehehheh!
Jack Tertadian 1993 3000GT VR4 10.81 @ 128.44mph
1994 3000GT VR4 12.386, 114.40mph stock
exhaust minus cats, no NOS
Paul Martens 1994 Supra TT 12.1 @ 119 mph stock
turbos...soon to get HKS
twin ballbearing
upgrade, ETC!
Atomic Motorsports
"Upgrade your vehicle--with Atomic Power!" ;)
Michael Booker wrote:
> All 94 and ups are OBD II, and there aren't as many upgrade "computer"
> type controllers for them. I don't think the VPC is available for the
> 94+ cars.
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 07:50:38 1999
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From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
To: "'mdorsey@mindspring.com'" <mdorsey@mindspring.com>,
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Possible fuel cut
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 07:49:40 -0700
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Michael...
Darcy is correct, fuel cut is a slamming effect. It happens under the
conditions you describe, but entirely different symptoms.
Have you regapped your plugs to .034"?
BTW...Admin notice...Please turn off your HTML when posting to the list.
Thanks.
Looking forward...Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael [mailto:mdorsey@mindspring.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 8:29 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Possible fuel cut
I think I'm running into fuel cut, and would like know exactly how it feels
and the after effects. When running WOT with approx 1.00 bar of boost, the
car will sometimes quit accelerating (almost feels like it slipped out of
gear). I always immiediately let off the gas, and the car recovers like
nothing happened. Can anyone give me some more insight on this.
For some history on the car, the timing belt tensioner broke about a month
ago and a dealer in OH had the heads machined and 20 of the 24 valves
replaced. I don't have a lot of faith in their work for various reasons.
>From what I understand, fuel cut is cause by knock, so is it possible that
they did something wrong that would cause the engine create more knock at
lower boost (1 bar). I also haven't regapped the plugs since they put new
ones in, if that makes a difference. Also, the car has never seen more that
1.02 bars of boost and I rarely let it get up to 1 bar.
Michael
98 VR4, Blitz DSBC, K&N FIPK, Borla cat-back
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 08:40:07 1999
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From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: <mdorsey@mindspring.com>, <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Possible fuel cut
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:38:00 -0700
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Michael;
Have you arrived a cybersolution to the symptoms (via private posts?) I was
hoping you'd get back to the group with more succinct info (ie at which
point in your WOT does the symptom appear?) That is, is this occurring at
3500, 4000, 5000 rpm, or at redline+ (if you take it to redline). As an
addendum to this latter point, recent postings here seem to indicate that
redline is counterproductive and that shifting at 5500rpm is the most
productive power area.
I have never run into the rev limiter but perhaps this is something to
consider if you are running high r's. Can someone give a descriptive
encapsulation of hitting the rev limiter??
It also may be, as already noted, that your clutch cannot hold at the
increased HP. If this is the case, then you've likely done some major
launches in the past and it's marginally holding now until you put your foot
into it. I may be running into that myself and am in the process of
determining if I need to put in my new RPS sooner, rather than at my
leisure.
Hope some of our more esteemed comrades will chip in their 25 cents worth so
that you have a solid feeling of what is up.
Best
Darc
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 08:44:20 1999
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From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Possible fuel cut
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:43:57 +0200
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As already properly described by Darc and Chris this is not fuel cut.
For me this sounds more like the car has hesitates due to misfires or even
detonation. But I also was immediatly thinking of a slipping clutch. As your
car is a 98 I doubt the clutch is already slipping and I'd more say that
this is an engine problem.
As the valves and pistons once kissed each other the pistons as well as
their rings and the rod bearings (I meant the stuff between the rod and
piston ;-) I doubt the rods or even the crank must be replaced but a good
inspection should be done for sure.
Now the wrost I can think off is that they only made the heads and the
pistons are slapping. This causes early knock and therefore a retarded
timing that is getting even worse with higher rpm. But then I'd think you'd
not be able to boost up to 1.0bars anyway.
My advice is the same as the others, regap the plugs (new ones if they did
not changed them) to 0.034" as this is what we recomend for cars running at
15psi. I'm pretty sure they are at 0.045 what is definitely too much and
therefore my be the cause for the problem. Also I'd pull the IC rubber hoses
going into the y-pipe and check the stuff for any larger oil deposits. This
would be a good sign of too much oil in the intake tract and this causes the
octane to be lowered. This finally results in earlier detonation.
BTW, as you got the car back I assume you runned it for about 700mls with
higher boost than 0.5 bars. This is recommended by Mitsu and they told me
several times to watch this. They even wanted to disconnect the boost
solenoid to limit boost to 0.5 bars but they gave up when they noticed the
Blitz box ;-)
Good luck,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For some history on the car, the timing belt tensioner broke about a
month ago and a dealer in OH had the heads machined and 20 of the 24 valves
replaced. I don't have a lot of faith in their work for various reasons.
>From what I understand, fuel cut is cause by knock, so is it possible that
they did something wrong that would cause the engine create more knock at
lower boost (1 bar). I also haven't regapped the plugs since they put new
ones in, if that makes a difference. Also, the car has never seen more that
1.02 bars of boost and I rarely let it get up to 1 bar.
Michael
98 VR4, Blitz DSBC, K&N FIPK, Borla cat-back
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 08:52:00 1999
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Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 08:51:53 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Organization: General Atomics - Fusion Group
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To: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
CC: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Need Help with Super AVC-R Plumbing
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Hi Paul,
The confusing part is that the manual lists several diagrams for different
cars. The diagram you want to follow is the one connecting to the "NO" port.
Your first description is correct and that is what you want to do.
This is what I did:
1) Replace the "H" connector with a supplied tee
2) Connect both hoses from wastegate actuators to tee
3) Connect hose from tee to the "COM" port on the solenoid
4) Connect hose from Y-pipe fitting to "NO" port on the solenoid
5) Connect the extra hose from the "H" fitting back to the stock boost solenoid
6) Cap the other fitting on the stock boost solenoid.
A great place to mount the solenoid is too zip tie it to the washer fluid bottle
fill neck, right under the Y-pipe fitting. This will keep the hoses very
short. Use the rubber mounting block and get some 8.5 inch tie wraps from Home
Depot.
Also, the fittings supplied with the Apexi solenoid are way too big for our
hoses. You can use the reducers for the installation. ** Or ** :) you can
replace the supplied brass hose barbs with 1/8 npt x 1/8 or 1/8 npt x 3/16 and
not have to use the reducers. I found the brass hose barbs at a local hardware
store. You may also want to get a couple of 1/8 npt female x 1/8 npt female 90
degree fittings so you can point the barbs toward their destination and avoid
bends and excessive length in the hoses.
Feel free to call me at the number below if you like. I've been meaning to post
an installation tips, maybe I'll get to it today.
Good luck,
Ken
> "Paul T. Golley" wrote:
> I assume that pressure fed to the w.g. actuator tends to open the
> w.g. causing exhaust to bypass the turbine, thus reducing boost.
> Then to increase boost, the solenoid vents the pressure to an
> ambient air passage in the inlet.
> As I see it with the AEPXi system, the pressurized air should go
> to the "NO" port of the solenoid; the "COM" port should be routed
> to both w.g. actuators; and the "NC" port should vent to ambient.
> Then energizing the solenoid will facilitate an increase in boost.
> Now to my dilemma: The OEM system routes the pressurized
> air to the w.g. actuators through an orifice in the "H" fitting.
> This makes sense because it impedes the flow of pressurized
> air to the w.g. actuators when the actuator is energized (venting).
> However there are two places in the confusing APEXi manual
> that say the supplied orifice should be installed in the "NC"
> port, which vents to the atmosphere. This I don’t understand.
> If the pressurized air supply has enough flow capacity, venting
> to the atmosphere through an orifice will not reduce the pressure
> to the w.g. actuators, resulting in no boost increase.
> Can someone help me with this? If anyone knows the answer to
> my questions but doesn’t want to type an e-mail response,
> please post your phone number, and I’ll call you for your
> advice. Thanks in advance for any help.
> Regards,
--
Drive faster, it is later than you think!
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 09:53:39 1999
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Reply-To: <mdorsey@mindspring.com>
From: "Michael" <mdorsey@mindspring.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Possible fuel cut
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:53:31 -0400
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I haven't solved the problem yet. Regapped the plugs to .035 and reset the
ECU last night. Tried a couple more runs. Under WOT, with the boost at
1.00 bar. the problem happened at precisely 4500 RPM every time (3rd gear).
I kept the throttle down once, and the car recovered immediately and started
pulling strong again. I have hit the rev limiter in the past, and what's
happening now is not as strong of a jerk as the rev limiter was. It throws
me forward in the seat, but my teeth never make it to the steering wheel,
thank god. I've got a RPS Turbo Carbon clutch, about 8K on it, so it should
be ok.
Michael
98VR4, DSBC, FIPK, Exhaust
When I got the car back, I asked the dealer if I should take it easy for a
while, and they said not to worry about it. So I've been pushing it since I
got it back.
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 10:00:12 1999
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From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
To: "'mdorsey@mindspring.com'" <mdorsey@mindspring.com>,
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Possible fuel cut
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:59:22 -0700
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Michael...
Nope, the rev limiter doesn't hit until 7200 rpm and isn't smooth (also not
the same SLAM as fuel cut). Almost sounds like the "bogging" I was getting
with my first set of ECU mods (running too rich), but shouldn't be the case
with a stock ECU, stock injectors, etc.
Can you have someone run a diagnostic on your air/fuel mix?
Looking forward...Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael [mailto:mdorsey@mindspring.com]
Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 9:54 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Possible fuel cut
I haven't solved the problem yet. Regapped the plugs to .035 and reset the
ECU last night. Tried a couple more runs. Under WOT, with the boost at
1.00 bar. the problem happened at precisely 4500 RPM every time (3rd gear).
I kept the throttle down once, and the car recovered immediately and started
pulling strong again. I have hit the rev limiter in the past, and what's
happening now is not as strong of a jerk as the rev limiter was. It throws
me forward in the seat, but my teeth never make it to the steering wheel,
thank god. I've got a RPS Turbo Carbon clutch, about 8K on it, so it should
be ok.
Michael
98VR4, DSBC, FIPK, Exhaust
<snip>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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From: "Wallis, Gavin" <WallisG@MWAA.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Info for FAQ, wheel junkies (ADMINS CHECK PLEASE)
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:02:14 -0400
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ADMINS: over the month or so I'll probably be posting questions for the FAQ.
It would preferable when I request information that it is done on the list
so as to avoid many people doing the same work and everyone can check
answers. If this is a problem, please let me know. Just act like I'm a
newbie :).
Wheel/Tire junkies: What are the maximum size tires for the following wheels
(correct me if I'm wrong)
18" : 285/30 w/rub, 275/35 w/possible rub, 265/40 safe bet.
17VR4: 265/35, 255/40 safe bet.
17" NT: ???
16" NT: ???
15" NT: ???
and of course any other commentary....hopefully this will be the last time
you have to type it :).
Gavin
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 10:03:51 1999
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From: "Wallis, Gavin" <WallisG@MWAA.com>
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Subject: Team3S: Wheel junkies add-on
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:03:54 -0400
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Please include winter tire size and manufacture recommendation for all those
sizes as well.
Thanks,
Gavin
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 10:21:49 1999
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From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
To: "'Wallis, Gavin'" <WallisG@MWAA.com>
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Subject: RE: Team3S: Info for FAQ, wheel junkies
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> 16" NT: ???
225/55 - stock
245/50 - no rub, no problems, stock speedo, improved handling
bigger - doubt it, but you *might* be able to get 255's on there
--Erik
------ ----------
Erik Gross DuPont, WA
'95 Pearl White 3000GT (base, DOHC) 59,000 mi
Firestone Firehawk 245/50/ZR16 tires, stock wheels
Magnacor KV85 spark plug wires, NGK plugs @ 0.040"
K&N FIPK (57-1500), resonator intact
Mobil 1 10W30 Synthetic w/ OEM oil filter
***No more ticking lash adjusters! Treated with GM EOS, BG
44K FI cleaner. Change oil every 2000mi, filter 4000mi ***
-------------------------------------------------------------
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 10:44:49 1999
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Should I be able to blow air through the stock BOV when it's removed from
the car? I can, and from what little I know, I don't think I should be able
to.
Michael
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 11:05:01 1999
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Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 11:04:55 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
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I have recently received and installed the new Apexi AVC-R. I thought I'd pass
along some tips for those of you who might be doing this yourself. Most of
these ideas I've 'gleaned' after the install, so not all have actually been
performed. These tips are in addition to the installation instructions. I
won't be repeating the manual, just adding my suggestions.
The Apexi AVC-R is a beautiful piece of electronics and the kit is fairly
complete and well packaged. However, before you begin the installation, you may
want to pick up the following items:
PARTS LIST
=========
8.5" or longer tie wraps
2 brass hose barbs, 1/8 npt x 1/8, OR 1/8 npt x 3/16
2 brass 90 degree elbows, 1/8 npt female x 1/8 npt female
Teflon tape
2 small 1/2" or 3/4" self tapping machine screws or sheet metal screws
1 small 2 position toggle switch
a few feet of small gauge wire, 16-20 AWG should be OK
a few more crimp on electrical connectors like those supplied in the kit
I bought a package of 100 8.5" tie wraps for $3 from Home Depot's electrical
dept. I bought the brass fittings from True Value/Ace Hardware for about $1.25
apiece. I haven't installed these yet so I'm not sure if the 1/8 OR 3/16 hose
barb is better.
MOUNTING
=========
Pressure sensor -- Use the 2 small screws to mount the pressure sensor on the
firewall. I mounted mine across from the plenum. I found space toward the
brake booster. Lucklily, when I last changed my plugs, I had tapped the plenum
(See Bob Fontana's web pages) and installed an extra hose barb so I didn't have
to tee into another line.
Solenoid -- A great place to mount the solenoid is too zip tie it to the
windshield washer fluid bottle fill neck, right under the Y-pipe fitting. This
will keep the hoses very short and is also great for noise isolation. Use the
supplied rubber mounting block and the tie wraps.
Display -- Use the supplied bracket. The display is big so it is hard to find a
place for it. I used the supplied sticky tape to mount the display to the
bracket, then slipped the bracket into the air-vent right below the factory
boost gauge. You can slip it into the top or bottom of the air-vent. Open the
glove box and tuck the wire under the carpet.
ELECTRICAL
==========
Connect the purple wire of the harness to the common pole of the toggle switch.
Connect the "A" pole to the RPM wire, then connect the "B" pole to the injector
wire. This will allow you to use the RPM connection normally, for learning and
proper display. You can flip the switch when you want to monitor IDC.
PLUMBING
========
The fittings supplied with the Apexi solenoid are way too big for our hoses.
Instead of using the reducers, you can replace the supplied brass hose barbs
with 1/8 npt x 1/8 or 1/8 npt x 3/16. Use the 90 degree fittings so you can
point the barbs toward their destination and avoid bends and excessive length in
the hoses. Be sure to wrap the threads with teflon tape.
SETUP
=====
There are so many settings that the first reading of the manual is very
confusing. The key here is to perform the settings in the order described in
the flow charts on page 8 and pages 20-21.
Good luck and don't hesitate to ask questions,
Ken
--
Drive faster, it is later than you think!
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 12:52:47 1999
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From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: "Team3S (E-mail)" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: BPV leaking ?
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 21:46:23 +0200
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>Should I be able to blow air through the stock BOV when it's removed from
>the car? I can, and from what little I know, I don't think I should be
able
>to.
The stock BPV has a little hole in it that allows you to blow through but
not really a lot. But your car is almost brandnew and the valve should not
be leaking at all. It is possible that an older one starts leaking due to a
weaker spring. If it leaks then it would on any boost level higher than a
specific one and not at an rpm range.
Sorry, only little help if any :-(
Roger
93'3000GT TT
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 12:52:54 1999
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From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: "Ken Middaugh" <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>,
"Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: AVC-R installation tips
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:44:01 -0700
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Hi Ken;
Just a quick question on your instalation. Why do you still have one hose of
the stock solenoid hooked up? Wouldn't vac capping both nipples on it (and
the appropriate turbo nipple), take it out of the curcuit completely. You
don't want it working at all do you? That is, your SAVC-R solenid is what (I
think )you want running the show, without a hint of a problem from a stock
solenoid.
Best
Darc
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 12:52:55 1999
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From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>, "'Wallis, Gavin'" <WallisG@MWAA.com>
Cc: "'Team3S List'" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Info for FAQ, wheel junkies
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:36:26 -0700
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Hey Erik:
What's this
>***No more ticking lash adjusters! Treated with GM EOS, BG
> 44K FI cleaner.
Fess up and share it a little more verbosely.
Best
darc
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 12:56:07 1999
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Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 21:51:17 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Reply-To: robby@swissonline.ch
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To: Team3S List <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Another "goose" update
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I installed the new aluminum y-pipe (custom made, WI prepared) today and drove a
long way to the customer. As I still have the same setup as before and WI not
activated (no threads in the pipe yet) I again got the "goose" sound. Therefore
the y-pipe is not really the problem, but the design of the aluminum thing is
very close to the stock pipe.
Well, more research to do :)
Roger
93'3000GT TT
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 13:07:30 1999
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From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: <mdorsey@mindspring.com>, <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Possible fuel cut
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:05:13 -0700
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Well, you are eliminating possibilities. 1) not the clutch (or shouldn't be
yet), 2) not the plugs, 3) not fuel cut, 4) not rev limiter....hmmm ...this
next one is not a good thought...as in a word of caution... but possibly
you're running into big timing retardation here, which means detonation is
happening. That is NOT what you want to have happening. Now it may not be,
likely not, but be careful from this point on with it until you have it well
diagnosed. You don't want a full rebuild in your plans. If it is TR , the
question is WHY?
Darc
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael <mdorsey@mindspring.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Friday, September 03, 1999 9:53 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Possible fuel cut
>I haven't solved the problem yet. Regapped the plugs to .035 and reset the
>ECU last night. Tried a couple more runs. Under WOT, with the boost at
>1.00 bar. the problem happened at precisely 4500 RPM every time (3rd gear).
>I kept the throttle down once, and the car recovered immediately and
started
>pulling strong again. I have hit the rev limiter in the past, and what's
>happening now is not as strong of a jerk as the rev limiter was. It throws
>me forward in the seat, but my teeth never make it to the steering wheel,
>thank god. I've got a RPS Turbo Carbon clutch, about 8K on it, so it
should
>be ok.
>
>Michael
>98VR4, DSBC, FIPK, Exhaust
>
>When I got the car back, I asked the dealer if I should take it easy for a
>while, and they said not to worry about it. So I've been pushing it since
I
>got it back.
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 13:13:01 1999
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From: "Wallis, Gavin" <WallisG@MWAA.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: FAQ REQ: HELP
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 16:13:02 -0400
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Ok....so this is quickly becoming massive. I'm happy to take on all of these
questions myself, I just don't guarantee a finished product before Y2K :).
So if anyone whom feels confident in one or more of these big questions
would like to take that particular question on, please e-mail me.
Which boost controller should I get? (should have manufs, differences, stand
out points)
Which clutch should I get? (should have manufs, differences, stand out
points)
Which engine management system should I get? ("
")
Which exhaust should I get? (" ")
Which air filter should I get? (" ")
What are my brake upgrade options? (" ")
This covers some of the more involved questions. Any help would be greatly
appreciated. This FAQ is becoming more like a book, and slowly an invaluable
resource.
(won't be able to assign each question until Monday, but send in your
e-mails anyway)
Gavin
FAQ additions:
Glossary
Anacronyms
"People" section
"Resource" section w/mitsu dealers, discount performance dealers, used parts
dealers,
"Cosmetic" section
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 13:34:20 1999
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Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 13:34:09 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Organization: General Atomics - Fusion Group
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Hi Darc,
> Just a quick question on your instalation. Why do you still have one hose of
> the stock solenoid hooked up? Wouldn't vac capping both nipples on it (and
> the appropriate turbo nipple), take it out of the curcuit completely.
Yep. I was just lazy and didn't want to find the other end of that hose (rear
turbo is it?). I effectively capped it with the stock soleonid. It IS out of
the circuit since even though the stock solenoid opens and closes, there is no
place for the air to go since the other nipple on the stock solenoid is capped.
> You don't want it working at all do you? That is, your SAVC-R solenid is what (I
> think )you want running the show, without a hint of a problem from a stock
> solenoid.
Yep. It is out of the circuit.
Regards,
lazy Ken
--
Drive faster, it is later than you think!
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 13:36:32 1999
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From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
To: "'Team3S List'" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Info for FAQ, wheel junkies
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:36:26 -0700
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darcy Gunnlaugson [mailto:wce@bc.sympatico.ca]
> Hey Erik:
>
> What's this
>
> >***No more ticking lash adjusters! Treated with GM EOS, BG
> > 44K FI cleaner.
>
> Fess up and share it a little more verbosely.
Here's what I did:
Arty's cleaning method (MMO) - nothing changed right away
BG 44K Fuel Injector cleaner - nothing changed right away
GM EOS(1pt/change) and a fresh oil/filter change - intermittent afterwards
Fresh oil (not filter) change - gone
I've found that (in general) the more dirty the oil, the more likely it is
to tick. This makes sense if you think about it. The above are the only
things I've done to the car that should affect the lash adjusters. It's
been 2-3 months since I've heard ticking. The one exception is first thing
in the morning when I start it, sometimes it'll tick until I rev it over
about 2000. Then it's gone for good.
Maybe a fluke, but I'm not complaining:)
--Erik
------ ----------
Erik Gross DuPont, WA
'95 Pearl White 3000GT (base, DOHC) 59,000 mi
Firestone Firehawk 245/50/ZR16 tires, stock wheels
Magnacor KV85 spark plug wires, NGK plugs @ 0.040"
K&N FIPK (57-1500), resonator intact
Mobil 1 10W30 Synthetic w/ OEM oil filter
***No more ticking lash adjusters! Treated with GM EOS, BG
44K FI cleaner. Change oil every 2000mi, filter 4000mi ***
-------------------------------------------------------------
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 13:38:14 1999
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From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
To: "'Team3S List'" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Lash Adjuster Ticking WAS: Team3S: Info for FAQ, wheel junkies
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:38:01 -0700
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Oops...subject change! Bad Erik.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darcy Gunnlaugson [mailto:wce@bc.sympatico.ca]
> Hey Erik:
>
> What's this
>
> >***No more ticking lash adjusters! Treated with GM EOS, BG
> > 44K FI cleaner.
>
> Fess up and share it a little more verbosely.
Here's what I did:
Arty's cleaning method (MMO) - nothing changed right away
BG 44K Fuel Injector cleaner - nothing changed right away
GM EOS(1pt/change) and a fresh oil/filter change - intermittent afterwards
Fresh oil (not filter) change - gone
I've found that (in general) the more dirty the oil, the more likely it is
to tick. This makes sense if you think about it. The above are the only
things I've done to the car that should affect the lash adjusters. It's
been 2-3 months since I've heard ticking. The one exception is first thing
in the morning when I start it, sometimes it'll tick until I rev it over
about 2000. Then it's gone for good.
Maybe a fluke, but I'm not complaining:)
--Erik
------ ----------
Erik Gross DuPont, WA
'95 Pearl White 3000GT (base, DOHC) 59,000 mi
Firestone Firehawk 245/50/ZR16 tires, stock wheels
Magnacor KV85 spark plug wires, NGK plugs @ 0.040"
K&N FIPK (57-1500), resonator intact
Mobil 1 10W30 Synthetic w/ OEM oil filter
***No more ticking lash adjusters! Treated with GM EOS, BG
44K FI cleaner. Change oil every 2000mi, filter 4000mi ***
-------------------------------------------------------------
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 13:58:12 1999
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From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: "Ken Middaugh" <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Cc: "Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: AVC-R installation tips
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:56:12 -0700
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Hi back at ya Ken;
Gotcha..err.. I understand your instalation. But isn't there a possiblility
of leakage happening with this setup somewhere...an extra hose to wear,
crack, age or leak that doesn't need to be there. And a solenoid that is
opening and closing is adding to the circuit, regardless of whether it
vents. The rear turbo nipple is a %^# to get at I know (remove battery and
washer solution bottle to get at it) but you'll be happier if you did. I
like to take things out of a circuit that shouldn't be there in the event
that they complicate things when reasonably, they are not supposed to. I
mean if you went to the trouble to replace the 4 way with a 3 way, then you
ain't lazy my friend. That's a job and a half!
Darc
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
To: Darcy Gunnlaugson <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
Cc: Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Friday, September 03, 1999 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: AVC-R installation tips
>Hi Darc,
>
>> Just a quick question on your instalation. Why do you still have one hose
of
>> the stock solenoid hooked up? Wouldn't vac capping both nipples on it
(and
>> the appropriate turbo nipple), take it out of the curcuit completely.
>
>Yep. I was just lazy and didn't want to find the other end of that hose
(rear
>turbo is it?). I effectively capped it with the stock soleonid. It IS out
of
>the circuit since even though the stock solenoid opens and closes, there is
no
>place for the air to go since the other nipple on the stock solenoid is
capped.
>
>> You don't want it working at all do you? That is, your SAVC-R solenid is
what (I
>> think )you want running the show, without a hint of a problem from a
stock
>> solenoid.
>
>Yep. It is out of the circuit.
>
>Regards,
>lazy Ken
>--
>Drive faster, it is later than you think!
>
>Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
>General Atomics
>San Diego
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 16:20:04 1999
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Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 16:18:27 -0700
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Organization: University of Washington
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To: 3/S Sirius Mailing List <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Possible fuel cut
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Michael,
Michael Dorsey wrote:
> pulling strong again. I have hit the rev limiter in the past, and what's
> happening now is not as strong of a jerk as the rev limiter was. It throws
> me forward in the seat, but my teeth never make it to the steering wheel,
> thank god. I've got a RPS Turbo Carbon clutch, about 8K on it [snip]
It still sounds like you're hitting fuel cut. You don't have to actually
"bite into" your steering wheel when fuel cut happens. It is just a
sudden jerk as if your engine has been temporarily shut off (which is
essentially what happens). I have experienced fuel cut before, but I
never tasted my steering wheel as a result of it.
I can only think of a couple possibilities: 1) Your DSBC is having
major problems and you are getting way more boost than 1.0 bar,
possibly as a result of the actuators not working and the boost gauge
also not working. However, the coincidence of these two problems
seems unlikely. 2) One or more of your plugs are bad. I really hope
they are the right NGKs and not some other brand. If they are bad,
regapping would not have helped. 3) Your ECU has gone crazy.
There's one other possibility, but the idea comes from a non-3S car.
A friend of mine drives a 97 Viper GTS, and at his first trip to the
dragstrip he experienced something very much like fuel cut only when
his car went under heavy acceleration. It was more like a rev-limiter
which varied between 3.5k and 5k rpms. We ran through a bunch of
narrow-it-down techniques in the parking lot (I was sweating buckets
tinkering around that monstrous engine), and my best diagnosis was
that it had something to do with his knock and/or crank-position
sensor. Somehow my guess turned out to be pretty close to the truth
when he brought the car to the shop. It turned out that one of the
wires to the sensor (I can't remember which one) was incorrectly
routed next to his tranny, so under heavy acceleration the tranny would
shake so much that this wire harness would throw off the sensor. I
was feeling pretty good about myself after making that call. :) So if
push comes to shove you might want to check out these sensors.
Have a nice weekend,
--Errin "tames the vipers, LOL" Humphrey ;)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 21:04:21 1999
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Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 00:13:13 -0700
From: Joe Gonsowski <twinturbo@mediaone.net>
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Subject: Team3S: flywheel minimum width & ball joint question
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I'm trying to find the minimum flywheel width before you need to replace
it. I know the clutch has been changed several times and the flywheel
is probably near the low limit. I don't want the shop to decide what is
acceptable for me. Also, what is a double cut?
Second question for all of you that have replaced half shafts or clutch
/ transaxle and tore a ball joint boot. Can you repair them. I tried
TRW and MOOG for a replacement balljoint to no avail. Mitsu only sells
the lower arm as an assembly (ie you can't buy just the balljoint). I'd
hate to fork over ~$250 to buy a new lower arm when all I really nead is
the balljoint.
Thanks,
Joe Gonsowski
'92 R/T TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 21:37:02 1999
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From: "CEskelsen" <cesk@redrock.net>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Breaking in a new Borla exhaust
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:34:03 -0600
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Newbie here,
Proud to say I just purchased a 96 RTTT and have installed a K&N kit =
and Borla exhaust. I have read on the 240sx list (traded it in) that it =
is possible to break in the exhaust for different results in tone and =
volume. Is there any truth to this and if so, what are my options?
Thanks,
Cory Eskelsen
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<DIV><FONT face=3D"Zurich BT">Newbie here,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> Proud to say I just purchased a 96 RTTT and have =
installed a K&N kit and Borla exhaust. I have read on the =
240sx list=20
(traded it in) that it is possible to break in the exhaust for different =
results=20
in tone and volume. Is there any truth to this and if so, what are =
my=20
options?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>Cory Eskelsen</DIV></BODY></HTML>
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 3 21:47:11 1999
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From: Joshua <joshua@unconundrum.com>
To: "'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Tranmission question and more
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 00:46:43 -0400
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Ok my mom was driving IN Philadelphia today and she said she was hearing a
grinding noise when she shifted from 1st to 2nd. Well I checked it out and
I think the syncro is the problem but I am not sure. If the car is below or
at 3000 rpms it will go right into gear without noticeable grinding. Also
it seems if you rev match it will not grind. It also will grind if you down
shift if the rpms are above 3000 rpms. It also has redline fluid in it.
Now for the questions the car is a 95 spyder which means the 5 year power
train should still cover it. The problem is several things:
1. the guy who had it before has a HKS EVC IV in the car and I know I
will hafta revert the car back to stock before it goes to the Mitsubishi
dealer. I figured I could leave everything intact because the guy have the
piece under the battery tray where it is hidden. The problem is he used
blue hosing so I will hafta take all the hosing off and put it back together
but my question is, is there any hosing you take off and not put back on
when you switch from stock to boost controller? Anyone tell me how to go
about uninstalling it?
2. Does the power train work have to be done at a Mitsubishi dealer? I
assume this is a yes.
3. The car had a new dual Friction clutch put in, will they hassle
about that? Also I don't know enough about transmission but if they were to
cover it, does the new transmission include a clutch or is that a separate
entity?
4. Are there any syncro kits still available? I know some people had
some sets.
5. Kormex? Still working on them, not finished right?
Well that's it for now. Thank you for any and all assistance.
Josh
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Sep 4 00:41:43 1999
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Subject: Team3S: Questions about new AVC-R (was: AVC-R installation tips)
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The new AVC-R sounds great! For those of us with the previous
generation SAVC-R, would you recommend upgrading? I wonder how
much of the existing wiring could be reused (vs. ripping
everything out and installing all of the wiring that comes
with the new unit)... What are street prices? And is the boost
solonoid now quieter (doesn't sound like it from your description)?
Thanx!
--
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Sep 4 01:05:33 1999
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From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
To: "Joshua" <joshua@unconundrum.com>, <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tranmission question and more
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 00:38:59 -0700
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Just like with getting sick, when having car trouble on a 3-day
holiday weekend, you're kind of out of luck... Lots of us on the list
(like myself) are almost out the door until Tuesday. But maybe I can
lay out some quick thoughts...
A. If you're grinding a lot, don't drive the car unless you
absolutely have to.
B. Depending on the dealer you go to, they can either be good guys
and honor the warranty, or be bad guys and use the legal cop-out that
any mods voids the warranty. None of us can know that... You've got
a better chance of them not noticing the EVC IV without the blue
hoses, but they won't see the clutch until they open it up. Can't
help with the uninstall...
C. Getting power train work done elsewhere will most definitely void
any warranty you've got left, if you can even find someone local who
knows how to work on our cars... Tranny and clutch are separate
problems, and a rebuild will not include the clutch. But you can
understand how they might easily blame a tranny problem on the clutch,
if they're sticklers...
D. JackT is the main Getrag guru, so maybe you'll hear from him...
I hope someone else is around who can add to this... Good luck. And
if it's possible, enjoy the weekend.
Best,
Forrest
-----Original Message-----From: Joshua <joshua@unconundrum.com>
>Ok my mom was driving IN Philadelphia today and she said she was
hearing a
>grinding noise when she shifted from 1st to 2nd. Well I checked it
out and
>I think the syncro is the problem but I am not sure. If the car is
below or
>at 3000 rpms it will go right into gear without noticeable grinding.
Also
>it seems if you rev match it will not grind. It also will grind if
you down
>shift if the rpms are above 3000 rpms. It also has redline fluid in
it.
>Now for the questions the car is a 95 spyder which means the 5 year
power
>train should still cover it. The problem is several things:
>1. the guy who had it before has a HKS EVC IV in the car and I know I
>will hafta revert the car back to stock before it goes to the
Mitsubishi
>dealer. I figured I could leave everything intact because the guy
have the
>piece under the battery tray where it is hidden. The problem is he
used
>blue hosing so I will hafta take all the hosing off and put it back
together
>but my question is, is there any hosing you take off and not put back
on
>when you switch from stock to boost controller? Anyone tell me how
to go
>about uninstalling it?
>2. Does the power train work have to be done at a Mitsubishi dealer?
I
>assume this is a yes.
>3. The car had a new dual Friction clutch put in, will they hassle
>about that? Also I don't know enough about transmission but if they
were to
>cover it, does the new transmission include a clutch or is that a
separate
>entity?
>4. Are there any syncro kits still available? I know some people had
>some sets.
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Sep 4 01:05:35 1999
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From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
To: "CEskelsen" <cesk@redrock.net>, <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Breaking in a new Borla exhaust
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 01:02:21 -0700
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-----Original Message-----From: CEskelsen <cesk@redrock.net>
Newbie here,
Proud to say I just purchased a 96 RTTT and have installed a K&N
kit and Borla exhaust. I have read on the 240sx list (traded it in)
that it is possible to break in the exhaust for different results in
tone and volume. Is there any truth to this and if so, what are my
options?
------------------------
Hey, Cory,
First of all, congrats! You've got yourself a great car! (And BTW,
I'm an ex- 240sx-er too...).
Once the exhaust is in place, most of the change in sound is from
choice of tips. And yes, a good pro will be able to help you "tune"
it for the sound you want, even though that's usually done when the
exhaust is going in. Hopefully there will be some folks around on
this holiday weekend to chime in with chapter and verse (but I
wouldn't plan on it 'til next week)... The performance shops will
probably be your best bet for recommendations if you're in a hurry...
We really don't cover (or encourage) this kind of stuff much on our
'technical' list, but a few of the guys have 'throatier' systems, and
hopefully, they will answer you privately. Even though this is
borderline "off-topic" ON the list, it's probably not a bad thing to
cover in our upcoming FAQ, so please make sure you share your results
with Gavin. Having a Stealth, I like the 'sleeper' quality of making
as little noise as possible while I 'eat' the competition, but to each
his own. :-) Good luck. And many happy miles.
Enjoy the weekend.
Best,
Forrest
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Sep 4 02:30:51 1999
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To: "Matthews" <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>,
"Team3S List" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Questions about new AVC-R
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 11:09:38 +0200
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Jim, good to hear from you again :-)
Regarding the AVC-R I ordered one for a customer of mine, although the thing
never showed up yet and the customer did not wanted to wait (many thanks to
the dealer !). I therefore may check it out and install it in my car as I
already have spliced into many of the wires.
I currently don't know where to position the head untit but shouldn't be a
problem if you only have one such unit. It has more benefits than the one
you are currently running and the major one is the rpm settings. The
solenoid is for 99% the same one :) For my understanding it's more difficult
to set up and you'll only know where the best is with doing several G-Tech
runs. I personally like the recording feature so you can see how the boost
curve and IDC% looks like.
For the pricing, you're somewhat late as the street prices just cam up
again. The lowest was $399 and now it's around $450-$499 but maybe with
speaking to the guys you should get it for around $420 or so. I maybe know
one that is interested in yours if you don't wanna use it for the Honda van.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
>The new AVC-R sounds great! For those of us with the previous
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Sep 4 05:17:10 1999
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Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:16:37 EDT
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tranmission question and more
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
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1. << figured I could leave everything intact because the guy have the
piece under the battery tray where it is hidden.>>
The problem is, if your tranny needs to be removed, they have to take the
battery tray out. So, they'll find it!
<<2. Does the power train work have to be done at a Mitsubishi dealer?
I
assume this is a yes.>>
Definitely.
<<3. The car had a new dual Friction clutch put in, will they hassle
about that? Also I don't know enough about transmission but if they were to
cover it, does the new transmission include a clutch or is that a separate
entity?>>
I'm not sure if they will hassle you about it, but legally, I do no think
they can because there are so many documented problems with these synchros in
cars that do not have the dual friction clutch. In order for them to "void"
your warranty, they will have to show that the clutch is not acceptable as a
replacement AND that the clutch was a substantial factor in causing the
damage, i.e., the damage would not have occurred "but for" the clutch. I
think they will be hard pressed to make that argument. However, that won't
stop them from trying. As for your second question, the clutch, including
the plate, release bearing and pressure plate, are all separate. Also, I saw
an earlier post where someone was asking about cutting the flywheel and what
it's minimum thickness is. I believe the manufacturer recommends AGAINST
cutting the flywheel for good reason. These cars produce a massive amount of
HP, even stock. I'd hate to cut that flywheel close to spec and have it come
apart on me on high acceleration. Just MHO.
Joe 91TT
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Sep 4 08:04:44 1999
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From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: "Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Questions about new AVC-R (was: AVC-R installation tips)
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:02:42 -0700
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Hi Jim;
The plumbing is the same. I believe the wiring is the same as well. Contact
Ken M. or Scott Cowan and they should be able to tell you exactly what the
harness looks like. My cyberspace interaction with Scott on this unit is
that the differences are in the controls, and the differences there are
substantial. I believe Scott got in on a group purchase for $400 which is a
great price, given I paid more for mine on a group purchase less than a year
ago, and that price was good at the time (less than Blitz at Chen's then
blow out price). With any luck if you buy, all you'd have to do is plug in
the control and voila! Then you get to play at being a rocket scientist to
understand how to set it.
Best
Darc
-----Original Message-----
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
To: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Cc: Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Saturday, September 04, 1999 12:41 AM
Subject: Team3S: Questions about new AVC-R (was: AVC-R installation tips)
>
>The new AVC-R sounds great! For those of us with the previous
>generation SAVC-R, would you recommend upgrading? I wonder how
>much of the existing wiring could be reused (vs. ripping
>everything out and installing all of the wiring that comes
>with the new unit)... What are street prices? And is the boost
>solonoid now quieter (doesn't sound like it from your description)?
>Thanx!
>
>--
>Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
>matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps ISDN)
>http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
>
>*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
>http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
>Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
>Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
>K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
>A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
>Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
>Metal Matrix brake pads, custom braided brake lines
>Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
>G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
>1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
>
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Sep 4 19:10:16 1999
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From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
To: <xwing@execpc.com>,
"Sirius 3000GT Mail List" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: OBD II year; Atomic Motorsports
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 21:06:21 -0500
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>> All 94 and ups are OBD II, and there aren't as many upgrade "computer"
>> type controllers for them. I don't think the VPC is available for the
>> 94+ cars.
Guys-
Jack T. told me that if I didn't have Ox sensors both before and after
my precats, I didn't have OBD-2. This agrees with my Factory Shop
Manuals. I have a 1995 VR-4, and I have not been able to find any
Ox sensors after my precats. Am I correct or wrong on this? I've
been convinced for quite a while that I have OBD-1. Am I wrong?
Regards,
ptg
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Sep 4 20:05:50 1999
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From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>, <xwing@execpc.com>,
"Sirius 3000GT Mail List" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: OBD II year; Atomic Motorsports
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 20:03:45 -0700
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Paul;
I believe Barry king discussed this at length in a posting some time back.
The OB11's are a relatively rare occurence inasmuch as they they seem to
appear in 96 or later. The 94's and I believe the 95's are hybrids with some
features of both, and because they are not a true OB1, they are erronesously
assumed to be OB11's. Barry are you out there? Wash away the mists of
confusion.
Best
Darc
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul T. Golley <ptgolley@ro.com>
To: xwing@execpc.com <xwing@execpc.com>; Sirius 3000GT Mail List
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Saturday, September 04, 1999 7:10 PM
Subject: Team3S: Re: OBD II year; Atomic Motorsports
>>> All 94 and ups are OBD II, and there aren't as many upgrade "computer"
>>> type controllers for them. I don't think the VPC is available for the
>>> 94+ cars.
>
>Guys-
>Jack T. told me that if I didn't have Ox sensors both before and after
>my precats, I didn't have OBD-2. This agrees with my Factory Shop
>Manuals. I have a 1995 VR-4, and I have not been able to find any
>Ox sensors after my precats. Am I correct or wrong on this? I've
>been convinced for quite a while that I have OBD-1. Am I wrong?
>Regards,
>ptg
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Sep 4 20:45:20 1999
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From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
To: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>, <xwing@execpc.com>,
"Sirius 3000GT Mail List" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: OBD II year; Atomic Motorsports
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:41:21 -0500
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>I believe Barry king discussed this at length in a posting some time back.
>The OB11's are a relatively rare occurence inasmuch as they they seem to
>appear in 96 or later. The 94's and I believe the 95's are hybrids with
some
>features of both, and because they are not a true OB1, they are
erronesously
>assumed to be OB11's. Barry are you out there? Wash away the mists of
>confusion.
>From: Paul T. Golley <ptgolley@ro.com>
>To: xwing@execpc.com <xwing@execpc.com>; Sirius 3000GT Mail List
><stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
>Date: Saturday, September 04, 1999 7:10 PM
>Subject: Team3S: Re: OBD II year; Atomic Motorsports
>>>>> All 94 and ups are OBD II, and there aren't as many upgrade "computer"
>>>> type controllers for them. I don't think the VPC is available for the
>>>> 94+ cars.
Well thanks; I guess. I'll assume I have OBD-1 until I find different.
This is really confusing matter.
Regards,
ptg
>>Guys-
>>Jack T. told me that if I didn't have Ox sensors both before and after
>>my precats, I didn't have OBD-2. This agrees with my Factory Shop
>>Manuals. I have a 1995 VR-4, and I have not been able to find any
>>Ox sensors after my precats. Am I correct or wrong on this? I've
>>been convinced for quite a while that I have OBD-1. Am I wrong?
>>Regards,
>>ptg
>>
>>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>>
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Sep 4 20:56:56 1999
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From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: "Sirius 3000GT Mail List" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: OBD II year; Atomic Motorsports
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 20:54:35 -0700
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Hey Paul;
Don't assume you have an OB1 (Obiwan) because the first generation OB1's are
not at all the same as yours. Yours, as a second generation, has a different
ECU plug harness and pin setup for starters. It was already evolving into
the OB11 by then. For example, you have to use a different wiring diagram
for the ECU splice-in with the SAVC-R for a simple example. It is not the
same critter as the first generation setup. so call it a hybrid.
Hope this helps
Darc
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Sep 4 21:10:28 1999
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From: "Jeff" <spydervr4@home.com>
To: "Sirius" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
References: <00bb01bef743$40d31f40$d46186d0@sjiredff>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: OBD II year; Atomic Motorsports
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 23:03:36 -0500
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As far as I know, your car is OBDI. My car has o2 sensors before and after
the precats. It also has an OBDII style diagnnostic connector. However, I
hooked up an OBDII datalogger and it didn't work on any of the OBDII
protocols. I checked under the hood and on one of the stickers, it read in
small text "OBDI Certified."
jeff
'95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
'90 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul T. Golley <ptgolley@ro.com>
To: <xwing@execpc.com>; Sirius 3000GT Mail List
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 1999 9:06 PM
Subject: Team3S: Re: OBD II year; Atomic Motorsports
> >> All 94 and ups are OBD II, and there aren't as many upgrade "computer"
> >> type controllers for them. I don't think the VPC is available for the
> >> 94+ cars.
>
> Guys-
> Jack T. told me that if I didn't have Ox sensors both before and after
> my precats, I didn't have OBD-2. This agrees with my Factory Shop
> Manuals. I have a 1995 VR-4, and I have not been able to find any
> Ox sensors after my precats. Am I correct or wrong on this? I've
> been convinced for quite a while that I have OBD-1. Am I wrong?
> Regards,
> ptg
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Sep 4 22:59:17 1999
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From: "Jeff" <spydervr4@home.com>
To: "Wendell H. Morris" <wmorris@mfm.com>
Cc: "Sirius" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
References: <37C6D475.7EEECF2C@mfm.com>
Subject: Team3S: A few questions answered, for Spyder owners
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 00:51:42 -0500
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Here's my response:)
jeff
'95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
'90 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
----- Original Message -----
From: Wendell H. Morris <wmorris@mfm.com>
To: Jeff <spydervr4@home.com>
Sent: Friday, August 27, 1999 1:09 PM
Subject: A few questions
> 1) Does your top sometimes fail to close all of the way on the first
> try? Sometimes mine will get to the point where it's supposed to
> close the rear windows and it just keeps making a whirring noise. If
> I reverse it for just a second and then re-close it, it almost always
> works. Any ideas if that's a simple adjustment?
I've never had problems closing the top. Only problems I've had were
opening it. Once it was a bad trunk floor sensor (replaced under warranty)
and my most recent incident seems to have just magically gone away. If your
car is still low mileage a dealership may still warranty it even if you're
beyond the time limit. You might consider bleeding your top's hydraulic
system. For the procedure, buy a Spyder service manual supplement. Any
dealership should be able to order it. It's volume 3 of the 3000GT set
(Volume 1 is chassis/mechanical and Volume 2 is electrical.) For a good
price, call the parts department at www.frankparra.com and tell them you are
with Club DSM. They can give you good prices on any Mitsu parts.
> 2) When my top is closed and I run over an uneven surface (railroad
> tracks for instance), I get a very loud "clacking" noise from the
> joint at the top of the windshield (right where the top locks to the
> a-pillar above & in front of my head). Does yours do this? I noticed
> that there's a small rubber "post" (about 1/4" diameter) on both the
> left and right sides of the top surface of the windshield part to
> which the hardtop locks itself. The post on the passenger side seems
> to be sticking up higher than the one on the driver's side. I'm
> wondering if maybe this is leaving enough play that a body twist
> causes the top to bang against the metal surface it mates with above
> the windshield.
Yeah, I hear a noise similar to that when I go over railroad tracks. I
attribute it to body flex. Another thing that fixed a lot of my noise (but
not all of it) is the headliner. It is held on by some velcro-like
material. Press on the seam by your head, near the AC temperature sensor
and make sure the headliner is secure. If it is flopping around (as mine
was when I got the car) it makes a LOT more noise.
> 3) Does your car leak at all in hard rain? Mine doesn't seem to make
> a very good seal around the rear edge of the driver's side window.
I don't know:) In any rain, my car is under a cover and I drive my
Eclipse:) From car washings, I've seen it leak a little bit at the windows
but that happened on my old '95 non-Spyder VR4. I haven't noticed any leaks
that are Spyder-specific.
> 4) Do you hear any loud whistling noises at highway speeds? I think
> this might be the same bad seal that causes the leak, but I'm curious
> to know whether I should even expect to be able to get a solid seal
> around the glass. I don't know anyone else in this area who has a
> Spyder that I can compare to mine :-( Should I expect that it could
> be almost as quiet as the coupe on the highway, or am I dreaming?
I'm pretty sure you're dreaming. I rarely drive the car with the top up,
but in the few instances that I have, it's been very noisy compared to my
old coupe. Now don't get me wrong...it's still WAY better than a ragtop of
any sort, but not as quiet as my old 3000GT. You might consider replacing
the seal though because I can't imagine it being THAT expensive and on my
car I'm not aware of any whistling noise. There is a fair amount of wind
noise but I figure that's because of the increased coefficient of drag the
Spyder has.
> 5) When my top is down and I run over an uneven surface I sometimes
> hear a fairly loud squeaking noise coming from somewhere in the back.
> I'm almost positive it's the stowed top moving around, but I didn't
> expect it to actually squeak so loudly. I've noticed that there's
> some worn foam padding on part of the metal linkage in the top's
> mechanicals, so it looks like something is rubbing together. What's
> your experience with this? Do you hear anything when you go over
> bumps that jostle the car?
I can't hear anything from back there when the top is down. Maybe it's my
exhaust:) What you might do is open the trunk, lay out a towel that covers
teh whole trunk area, then close the top until the top is back there but the
lid isn't closed and lay another towel on top of that. Then close the top
and go for a drive. If it solves your problem, then you know it's
definitely rubbing on something. Other than that I can't think of any other
things to try other than, as I said earlier, bleed your top's hydraulic
system.
> 6) When my top is closed I notice that the rubber (or maybe it's
> flexible plastic) strips in the cabin area around the top edges of the
> hardtop don't line up very well. They're all twisted and in some
> places even torn a little near the edges of where the top's linkage
> disappears behind them. Have you experienced any less-than-optimal
> wear from these cosmetic plastic strips that are supposed to hide the
> actual seal areas when the top is up?
Mine seem to be fine, but my car only has 16.9k miles on it.
> Thanks for any insights you can give me on the above questions. I
> just got my Spyder and I'm still trying to decide which problems I
> need to make a stink about with the dealer and which items I should
> just learn to live with.
>
> --
> --- Wendell H. Morris
> --- '96 VR4 Spyder
You should go ahead and get ANY AND ALL problems with the top resolved. I
suspect it will be expensive to fix, if dealers start refusing warranty
claims. I have the service manual and nothing is all THAT hard to do, but
if something actually breaks (i.e. trunk sensor) it's very expensive just to
get parts. For example, the Spyder specific rear view mirror is nearly
$400. Though this isn't a very important part and will MOST LIKELY never
need replacing, it gives you an idea how expensive the custom parts for the
car are.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Sep 5 06:06:52 1999
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From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: "3/S Sirius Mailing List" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: B&M "New Volt" ignition amplifier
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 15:05:27 +0200
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For me the thing is something new but it sounds like a much better upgrade
than many other things especially for our cars. If anyone has already made
some investigations in this product please let me know. Here some
information from a friend on the message board and infos I found :
- longer inductive spark energy delivery
- Works on any OBDxx cars
- output remains at 20 volts / 15 amp (20 peak)
- Works with multi-coil applications as well as single coil applications
with one unit
- It delivers a long lasting spark at higher energy for 2500 - 3000 usec
which is more
efficient with regard to a full burn in the combustion chamber
- uses only three wires to connect
> This may be of interest to some of you...it's definately a better
alternative to
> running 3 MSD 6's
http://www.bmracing.com/catalog/import/im99-7.htm
> B&M is sending me installation instructions and supporting technical test
results.
>The unit is not a coil but a control unit that allows the coils to fire at
a higher power
>rating. They claim that the amps will jump by 2 orders of magnitude.
Installation is
>three wires (ground, coil pack, and coil harness). This is not a multi
spark system
>but a longer duration spark at higher wattage (amps x voltage). They claim
that
>you can open the gap to 0.050-0.060 on the plugs even with 16 psi of boost.
I will
>let you know more when I get the literature package.
>The cost is $229 from Summit Racing.
I plan to get such a thing although the price is something high but I think
it is a better upgrade than other boxes. Does anybody know of another
simlilar product from MSD, Jacobs or so ??
Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Sep 5 11:37:15 1999
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Reply-To: <lehir@genesiscom.ch>
From: lehir@genesiscom.ch (Genesiscon Lehir)
To: "'3/S Sirius Mailing List'" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: RE: Europe Japanese Twin Turbo Club
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 20:30:42 +0200
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Hello, Never saw my post on the list, so.....
The first Europe_Japanese Twin Turbo Event will be hold
in MUNICH, Germany, starting on Tuesday, and until the next
Weekend.
There will be a LOT of 300ZXTT, but as well Supras TT.
Bring your Mitsu/stealth.
For additional details, e-mail me (fast)
Best regards
Henri
300 ZXTT/Stealth RT/TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Sep 5 15:11:13 1999
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From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: "3/S Sirius Mailing List" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Pictures of 93'3000GT prospectus (somewhat off-topic)
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 00:06:44 +0200
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Off topic (just FYI) :
I just added the scans of the 16-page 93'3000GT prospectus from Europe ! If
interested, check them out under my homepage :
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/3000gt.html
WARNING : There is one pic per page with sizes between 100-220kb. This may
take some time to download with a standard modem.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Sep 5 22:11:15 1999
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
From: Jim <jimc@pathwaynet.com>
Subject: Team3S: Question from a newbie
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
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Hi everyone! I am looking at purchasing a 92 3000gt VR4 and was wondering
what I should look for or watch out for when I go to test drive it? I love
the car and can't wait to have one of my own. I would appreciate any help
and suggestions you guys could offer. Thanks!
~Jim Crook
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 6 00:16:38 1999
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Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 02:14:59 -0500
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
From: Phil Johnson <dangerwit@mediaone.net>
Subject: Team3S: So THAT's what a glazed disc smells like?
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Hi all, a little late-night car trouble...
...I'm hoping I've figured this out correctly (well, with help from a
friend) but I'd like to run it by the experts. =)
So my dad was looking to race me in his Pontiac GP GTP, I figure no
problem. That is, if I COULD DRIVE. Something happened (most certainly my
error), and I was suddenly stuck in the middle of the road, in first,
racing the engine. No motion. Shift to second. Racing engine again, no
movement. Then third. The same. I put the stick in neutral, waited a
second, then reshifted into first, and drove nicely (of course the GTP was
waaaay ahead of me).
That was when I smelled the most awful burning metal. I thought I was
gonna choke. I pulled over to catch my breath... no smoke coming out, just
a stench. AND, the car was VERY grabby (RPS 2nd stage clutch, OE disc) all
of a sudden.
My friend confirmed what I thought the issue was -- I probably did
something to my new RPS clutch, most likely the disc. After a long cooling
period, it drives fine again, no extra grab on the clutch.
Is this something I need to look at, perhaps replace the OE disc? The
clutch only has about 1000 easy miles on it, nothing really hard. And, I
know this might be harder, but can anyone figure out what I did? I was too
concerned about not getting hit by other cars to figure it out. =)
Thanks for any advice,
*Melting in Minneapolis ;-)
*Phil
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 6 00:21:17 1999
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Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 09:21:44 +0200
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
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Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Europe Japanese Twin Turbo Club
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Genesiscon Lehir wrote:
>
> The first Europe_Japanese Twin Turbo Event will be hold
> in MUNICH, Germany, starting on Tuesday, and until the next
> Weekend.
>
> There will be a LOT of 300ZXTT, but as well Supras TT.
> Bring your Mitsu/stealth.
Henri,
Thanx for the post, but it was pretty uninformative.
Are you talking about Tuesday 9/7 through Sunday 9/12? Why
so many days? What events are taking place and when? How
many cars are expected? Where in Munich? Etc.
There are enough European readers of this list to
warrant a detailed post. Thanx...
-Jim
--
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 6 07:35:25 1999
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From: "Basol, John" <jbasol@Carlson.com>
To: 3/S Sirius Mailing List <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: B&M "New Volt" ignition amplifier
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 09:35:10 -0500
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Roger,
What I am currently investigating is the MSD DIS-4. It provides a
longer spark duration as well as a higher spark output. It is intended to
work with cars that have either 3 or 4 coil packs. The cost is a little
higher, $329 from Jegs, ($345 from Summit), but MSD is a known leader in the
ignition field. You can find out more on the DIS-4 by going to
www.msdignition.com <http://www.msdignition.com> They have some pretty good
info on it. AT the price of the B&M, if the two units are comparable then
you have done me a big favor.
One of the biggest problems with WI cars is the ignition. It takes
a good ignition system to be able to fire through the mix of fuel/air and
now, distilled water. Our cars do NOT have good ignition systems. I plan
on rewiring the system with larger wire as well. Mits knows how to make a
little engine produce lots of power, but they failed when trying to make a
little ignition make lots of power. :-)
John Basol
System Management Services
-----Original Message-----
From: R.G. [SMTP:robby@freesurf.ch]
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 1999 8:05 AM
To: 3/S Sirius Mailing List
Subject: Team3S: B&M "New Volt" ignition amplifier
For me the thing is something new but it sounds like a much better
upgrade
than many other things especially for our cars. If anyone has
already made
some investigations in this product please let me know. Here some
information from a friend on the message board and infos I found :
- longer inductive spark energy delivery
- Works on any OBDxx cars
- output remains at 20 volts / 15 amp (20 peak)
- Works with multi-coil applications as well as single coil
applications
with one unit
- It delivers a long lasting spark at higher energy for 2500 - 3000
usec
which is more
efficient with regard to a full burn in the combustion chamber
- uses only three wires to connect
> This may be of interest to some of you...it's definately a better
alternative to
> running 3 MSD 6's
http://www.bmracing.com/catalog/import/im99-7.htm
> B&M is sending me installation instructions and supporting
technical test
results.
>The unit is not a coil but a control unit that allows the coils to
fire at
a higher power
>rating. They claim that the amps will jump by 2 orders of
magnitude.
Installation is
>three wires (ground, coil pack, and coil harness). This is not a
multi
spark system
>but a longer duration spark at higher wattage (amps x voltage).
They claim
that
>you can open the gap to 0.050-0.060 on the plugs even with 16 psi
of boost.
I will
>let you know more when I get the literature package.
>The cost is $229 from Summit Racing.
I plan to get such a thing although the price is something high but
I think
it is a better upgrade than other boxes. Does anybody know of
another
simlilar product from MSD, Jacobs or so ??
Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 6 08:14:17 1999
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Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:13:33 EDT
Subject: Team3S: Sad Days - My baby is no more.
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com, stealth@dragnet.com, stealth@starnet.net
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Bad News Folks. 10 days ago while coming home from the local
driving range ( trying to fix a nasty slice) some joker decided
to play chicken on a dark curve. It took me a split second to
realize he was 3-4 feet in my lane. Instinctively I swerved to
the right to miss him without touching the brakes. I still don't
know how I manged to miss the SOB, but I did. When I had it almost
straight again I hit something with my right front ( found out
later it was a black curb ). This shot me straight across the road
into a guard rail. When I knew it was hopeless I hit the brakes.
Just before impact I got off the brakes to protect my legs. Hit
guard rail fairly square, air bag deployed, bounced backwards
across the road and took out a mail box with the right rear
quarter panel. Got out expecting to wail on the SOB, but he had
left. The only injury was on my neck from the air bag. Just some
scrapes. Luckily I had my seat belt on. Police, fire, ambulance
all showed up. Car was a mess. Most of the plastic parts on the
front of the car were gone, right front wheel bent, and radiator
was punctured. Three days later they totalled the car. Tried to
buy it back but they wanted 4K for it. Worked out a deal to remove
aftermarket parts and replace with original stock parts. I am
still amazed at how well the car took the impact. The front just
colapsed absorbing alot of the impact ( est. at 40 mph ). I will
miss this car dearly. It was a 1993 VR4 in perfect condition.
After considering the situation I have decided to look for a used
race car and buy some POS for driving around. Therefore I am
selling off all of the parts I have salvaged or had as spares.
Here is the list and what I am asking. PLEASE respond directly to
me and not the list. I live in Conn. for those of you within driving
distance. All items are sold with purchaser paying for shipping.
Full set of H&R springs. Used 1 year - New 225.00 - Sell - 125.00
Road Race Engineering rear tower bar - New 195.00 - Sell - 100.00
Blitz Boost Controller - New 505.00 - Sell - 250.00
( One part of harness need new connectors, but works fine)
Blitz Turbo Timer - New 105.00 - Sell - 50.00
Brad's Big Red Porsche Calipers
with coated KVR rotors, Full set of Pagid BLACK pads, and
1/2 set of Pagid Orange pads. - New 1600.00 - Sell 1100.00
Ground Control Front Camber Plates - New 265.00 - Sell 200.00
Rear GAB struts. Used 8 months - New 310.00 - Sell 150.00
Rear Ground Control setup with 500 lbs - New 200.00 - Sell 100.00
1993 Shop manuals and CD - New 120.00 - Sell 50.00
( The mecanical manual binder is falling apart, but all of the
pages are there. The electrical one is in perfect shape )
Set of 1993 VR4 wheels with Yoko A032R tires - Sell 350.00
( The rims are straight but the chrome is shot, peeling, gone.
I used these for the Yokos while on the track. The Yoko's have
about 1/3 tread left on 3 tires and the 4th one is pretty well
gone. It make last another 2 days or so )
Set of Goodyear Eagle 245/45/ZR17's about 1/2 tread - Sell 150.00
Stock main Catalytic convertor Sell 50.00
( Good for gutting for a "test" pipe)
Set of 18" VR4 wheels with BF Comp T/A 265/35/ZR18's Sell 1300.00
( These are in almost perfect condition. One wheel has some
discoloration of the chrome around the lugs. Two of the tires
are near new, and two of the tire have wear on the inside from
running too much camber on the street )
Stock 1993 rear brake pads New 39.00 Sell - 15.00
Extra set of Eibach Ground Control Springs New ??? Sell 75.00
( The are 550 lbs - brand new )
6 Disk trunk mounted CD player Sell 150.00
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 6 15:45:02 1999
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From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
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To: "Basol, John" <jbasol@Carlson.com>,
Team3S List <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: B&M "New Volt" ignition amplifier
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> What I am currently investigating is the MSD DIS-4. It provides a
> longer spark duration as well as a higher spark output. It is intended to
> work with cars that have either 3 or 4 coil packs.
If I recall correctly at least Mike (ALtered Atmosphere) tried the DIS-4 and it
didn't worked well. I think that has somethng to do with the style of the MSD as
it provides more features as we already are looking for.
The "New Volt" (strange name) will be conected to the ignition transistor pack.
Better said to the power line that is getting switched. The DIS-4 looks like it
would eliminate the transistor pack and doesn't look easy to be installed. Of
course, the DIS is a more complete discharge system while the New Volt helps the
weak system to become good.
We are trying to get such a system for testing and I think if B&M believes in
their product they should give it to me for free. I'll do the install and pay
for a dyno run to provide real data then. I'llö keep you updated.
> One of the biggest problems with WI cars is the ignition. It takes
> a good ignition system to be able to fire through the mix of fuel/air and
> now, distilled water.
I agree with you, although if the amount of water is not too much the problem
should be degligible. But for sure it will help !
> Mits knows how to make a
> little engine produce lots of power, but they failed when trying to make a
> little ignition make lots of power. :-)
Just never look at an LT1 system that uses an optical spark distributor
(optispark),... we call it opticrap, the name says it all !
Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 6 17:11:30 1999
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From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>, "Jim" <jimc@pathwaynet.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Question from a newbie
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 17:07:16 -0700
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Hi Jim;
If buying stock; buy one with the lowest miles possible and with good
original paint to match. It's usually indicative of someone who loved and
cared for their car if it remains primo. Pass up battered or reshined
warriors. (If purchasing modified, post here and someone likely will know
the car and can advise.)
Make sure the last 60,000 timing belt change was performed (this is done
every 60,000 ) and that a new timing belt tensor was instaled at the same
time. A new water pump is usually put in at this time as well by owners who
look after their cars.
Front brake lines were a recall item...make sure it was done, and while
you're at it, check out the remaining service record.
Insure your synchros are in good shape: no grinding on shifts. A new tranny,
or even a rebuilt is expensive.
Check the transfer case for cracks leaks, etc. Spines are known to go/strip
but it's a hard thing to really check on.
Look at the rims for major damage...could be indicative of hidden front
end/suspension problems.
Make sure you don't have a clutch on the way south, or brakes that are in
need of work in the immediate future.
New paint can hide sins. Original is better.
Hope this helps for starters...you're get other advice I'm sure.
Darc.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 6 20:27:22 1999
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From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>, "Phil Johnson" <dangerwit@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: So THAT's what a glazed disc smells like?
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:24:58 -0700
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Hi Phil;
I am not the resident 3S clutch guru or instalation expert on the same, so I
have a few questions:
1) I didn't know that two discs could be instaled (RPS and OE) at the same
time in the same car. Can you explain?
2) Are you sure you had a burning metal smell and not a burning clutch
smell? They point at different problems.
3) Did you replace the TOB, pressure plate and flywheel at the time you put
in a new disc?
Maybe we can get a few others involved here and get to the bottom of your
problem.
Best
Darc
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Johnson <dangerwit@mediaone.net>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Monday, September 06, 1999 12:17 AM
Subject: Team3S: So THAT's what a glazed disc smells like?
>Hi all, a little late-night car trouble...
>
>...I'm hoping I've figured this out correctly (well, with help from a
>friend) but I'd like to run it by the experts. =)
>
>So my dad was looking to race me in his Pontiac GP GTP, I figure no
>problem. That is, if I COULD DRIVE. Something happened (most certainly my
>error), and I was suddenly stuck in the middle of the road, in first,
>racing the engine. No motion. Shift to second. Racing engine again, no
>movement. Then third. The same. I put the stick in neutral, waited a
>second, then reshifted into first, and drove nicely (of course the GTP was
>waaaay ahead of me).
>
>That was when I smelled the most awful burning metal. I thought I was
>gonna choke. I pulled over to catch my breath... no smoke coming out, just
>a stench. AND, the car was VERY grabby (RPS 2nd stage clutch, OE disc) all
>of a sudden.
>
>My friend confirmed what I thought the issue was -- I probably did
>something to my new RPS clutch, most likely the disc. After a long cooling
>period, it drives fine again, no extra grab on the clutch.
>
>Is this something I need to look at, perhaps replace the OE disc? The
>clutch only has about 1000 easy miles on it, nothing really hard. And, I
>know this might be harder, but can anyone figure out what I did? I was too
>concerned about not getting hit by other cars to figure it out. =)
>
>Thanks for any advice,
>*Melting in Minneapolis ;-)
>*Phil
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 7 09:12:06 1999
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Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 12:15:04 -0400
From: "J. Stephen Gula" <loco3kgt@creepingdeath.com>
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Subject: Team3S: Ground Control Group Purchase
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Hey guys,
just letting you know the group purchase ends Friday. The discount is
at 20% on the kits and discounted prices on any extra parts. Go to:
http://www.logitrak.com/glen/gcinfo.htm
And fill out the information there, or call the Ground Control folks
(website is www.ground-control.com ) and tell them you want in on the
group purchase.
Best of luck. I'd get in on it if I didn't have to cough up money for
college books.
--Steve "Loco3KGT" Gula
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 7 09:15:35 1999
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From: "Phil Johnson" <dangerwit@mn.mediaone.net>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: So THAT's what a glazed disc smells like?
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:14:10 -0500
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Hi Darcy,
I'm no clutch guru either, but here's some answers.
>1) I didn't know that two discs could be instaled (RPS and OE) at the same
time in the same car. Can you explain?
I have the 2nd stage clutch, uses RPS's HD pressure plate and a Mitsubishi
disc. The 3rd stage is the big one, uses RPS's [recently redesigned]
special disc, not Mitsu's.
>2) Are you sure you had a burning metal smell and not a burning clutch
smell? They point at different problems.
I just assumed it was the OE disc, since operation immediately changed. I
really don't know where the aroma came from. =)
>3) Did you replace the TOB, pressure plate and flywheel at the time you put
in a new disc?
Yes, yes, no. =) I had the flywheel resurfaced, they said it was in decent
shape to do so.
I might take Bob Rand's advice (I'm just looking for an excuse to drop the
tranny, I admit) once I get some decent jacking equipment.
Any recommendations? I see Northern Tool has a nice lifting thing for about
$400, up to 35" jacking distance!
Anyway, the monster seems okay for now, BUT, I want to make sure I take care
of it...
*Phil
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 7 09:55:00 1999
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From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: "Phil Johnson" <dangerwit@mn.mediaone.net>,
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: So THAT's what a glazed disc smells like?
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 09:52:47 -0700
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-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Johnson <dangerwit@mn.mediaone.net>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 9:18 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: So THAT's what a glazed disc smells like?
>Hi Darcy,
(Hey Phil)
>I'm no clutch guru either, but here's some answers.
>
>>1) I didn't know that two discs could be instaled (RPS and OE) at the same
>time in the same car. Can you explain?
>
>I have the 2nd stage clutch, uses RPS's HD pressure plate and a Mitsubishi
>disc. The 3rd stage is the big one, uses RPS's [recently redesigned]
>special disc, not Mitsu's.
That explains it. I wanted to be certain we were on the same bus ;-)
>
>>2) Are you sure you had a burning metal smell and not a burning clutch
>smell? They point at different problems.
>
>I just assumed it was the OE disc, since operation immediately changed. I
>really don't know where the aroma came from. =)
Did it smell like burned brakes, or burned metal? The former is similar to a
burned
clutch smell. The later might indicate the problem is something else.
>>3) Did you replace the TOB, pressure plate and flywheel at the time you
put
>in a new disc?
>
>Yes, yes, no. =) I had the flywheel resurfaced, they said it was in
decent
>shape to do so.
A few people who have been advised that their flywheel only needed
resurfacing
have found that they wished they'd changed it...ie clutch's now slipping.
There was a
posting awhile back indicating tolerances are too low to resurface. Dunno.
>
>I might take Bob Rand's advice (I'm just looking for an excuse to drop the
>tranny, I admit) once I get some decent jacking equipment.
Well, hopefully that'll reveal the problem when she's opened up. Post back
on it.
Darc
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 7 10:00:29 1999
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Message-ID: <37D544F1.DF8D8061@pacifier.com>
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 09:01:37 -0800
From: Rich <rleroy@pacifier.com>
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To: Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: FS: 1992 R/T TT
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All:
For those of you old-timers in the 3S community that
remember James Retych, (before he succumbed to the dark
<Viper> side), you'll also remember his `92 R/T TT. The
person who purchased the car from James is now ready to
part with this beauty, (another one of those Viper people),
and I agreed to post this ad.
1992 R/T TT
Blue w/dual white striping
Profec
Upgraded shifter
K&N FIPK
Braided SS brake lines
59k miles
$13,995
The car is in the PNW, and I *suppose* I could be persuaded
to test-drive the car for a prospective buyer if it is
arranged through the owner first ;-).
For more info on the car, contact the owner directly at:
AVIPERGUY@aol.com The owner's name is Jon Brobst.
Rich
--
"If you dig it, do it.
If you really dig it, do it twice"
- Jim Croce (1943-1973)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 7 10:21:27 1999
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Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 10:21:15 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Organization: General Atomics - Fusion Group
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To: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
CC: Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Questions about new AVC-R (was: AVC-R installation tips)
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Hi Jim,
> The new AVC-R sounds great! For those of us with the previous
> generation SAVC-R, would you recommend upgrading?
It truly is a great unit. Would it make you go faster? Probably not really.
> I wonder how
> much of the existing wiring could be reused (vs. ripping
> everything out and installing all of the wiring that comes
> with the new unit)...
There are 6 required wires for: power; RPM or IDC; Throttle; Speed; and 2
grounds. Also there is 1 optional wire for a scramble switch if you wish to
change your boost and duty settings for a few seconds (yes, programmable) at the
push of a button.
>What are street prices? And is the boost
> solonoid now quieter (doesn't sound like it from your description)?
I have not heard the solenoid. I have it tie wrapped to the fill neck of the
windshield washer bottle using the rubber mount so it is very insulated from
transmitting noise.
See ya,
Ken
--
Drive faster, it is later than you think!
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 7 15:09:31 1999
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From: Joshua <joshua@unconundrum.com>
To: "'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Uninstalling a HKS EVC IV Help please
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:09:05 -0400
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Ok I need to remove an HKS EVC IV from my mom's car cause the transmission
is having probs and it is under warranty. Now the person whom had the car
before and installed the boost controller has it done as the following:
1 hose is connected to the back of the y-pipe
1 hose is connected to a y split on the top of the plenum close to the front
of the car. It is the bigger hose. It isn't the hose which is in the back
which I was told you are supposed to tap the boost gauge into.
1 hose is attached to a 4 way connection. I assume this is the H connection
but I am not sure cause it doesn't look like an H. It has two connections
on the top, one connection on the bottom and one connection on the side.
Now I know I will hafta get some 2 way connection so that it doesn't branch
off but I remember reading something having been done with the stock boost
solenoid. I looked at it and it has one hose on the top which goes to
something and what looks to be a port underneath but it capped. I tried to
take the cap off but it wouldn't come off. Anyone who can please help me, I
would appreciate it. I have tried looking at the Swiss Turbo basic's page
and other pages related but with my dyslexia I get confused. Thanks for any
and all help.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 7 15:45:59 1999
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Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 00:04:34 +0200
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To: 3/S Sirius Mailing List <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: B&M "New Volt" ignition amplifier
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GOOD NEWS :
With the help of a buddy in Pleasanton, CA. I'm getting one of these boxes to
test with the datalogger and to provide real dyno data.
> What I am currently investigating is the MSD DIS-4.
Just as an aside, the guy we are dealing with is the B&M Chief Engineer who,
prior to joining B&M, designed all the MSD and Crane ignitions. He acknowledges
that those systems don't work well with our cars and the reason he came to B&M
was they agreed to let him build a correct system for the 3000GT, Supra, and
other turbo/supercharged vehicles. He has tested the unit on a Skyline GT-R at
2.5 BAR of boost with no knock (jadda-jadda). He runs a supercharged corvette at
13 psi (gulp) and a 0.70 plug gap. Any questions ??
Stay tuned, as I'm taking the next two weeks off for car-stuff ;-) Damn, I need
more space for my web-site, haha. I'll give you all a short update on what is
going on in the next weeks.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 7 15:46:17 1999
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Subject: Re: Team3S: B&M "New Volt" ignition amplifier
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GOOD NEWS :
With the help of a buddy in Pleasanton, CA. I'm getting one of these boxes to
test with the datalogger and to provide real dyno data.
> What I am currently investigating is the MSD DIS-4.
Just as an aside, the guy we are dealing with is the B&M Chief Engineer who,
prior to joining B&M, designed all the MSD and Crane ignitions. He acknowledges
that those systems don't work well with our cars and the reason he came to B&M
was they agreed to let him build a correct system for the 3000GT, Supra, and
other turbo/supercharged vehicles. He has tested the unit on a Skyline GT-R at
2.5 BAR of boost with no knock (jadda-jadda). He runs a supercharged corvette at
13 psi (gulp) and a 0.70 plug gap. Any questions ??
Stay tuned, as I'm taking the next two weeks off for car-stuff ;-) Damn, I need
more space for my web-site, haha. I'll give you all a short update on what is
going on in the next weeks.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 7 15:51:11 1999
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Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 15:51:17 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Organization: General Atomics - Fusion Group
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To: Joshua <joshua@unconundrum.com>
CC: "'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Uninstalling a HKS EVC IV Help please
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Hi Josh,
I can get you started. Hopefully someone can supply the other info since I'm
unfamiliar with the EVC installation.
The 4-way or "H" connector should be plumbed as follows: 1 hose to EACH of the
waste gate actuators (2 total, the bottom H connector goes to the rear actuator,
the side goes to the front actuator), 1 hose to the stock boost control solenoid
valve (top left H connector), 1 hose to the back of the Y-pipe (top right H
connector). There is also a hose that comes off the rear turbo and it should
also go to the stock boost control solenoid valve.
Right now, the H connector should be connected to the acuators correctly. Just
check/move the top connector's hoses. Also it sounds like the hose connected to
the stock solenoid is currently correct (probably from the rear turbo).
Good luck,
Ken
> Ok I need to remove an HKS EVC IV from my mom's car cause the transmission
> is having probs and it is under warranty. Now the person whom had the car
> before and installed the boost controller has it done as the following:
> 1 hose is connected to the back of the y-pipe
> 1 hose is connected to a y split on the top of the plenum close to the front
> of the car. It is the bigger hose. It isn't the hose which is in the back
> which I was told you are supposed to tap the boost gauge into.
> 1 hose is attached to a 4 way connection. I assume this is the H connection
> but I am not sure cause it doesn't look like an H. It has two connections
> on the top, one connection on the bottom and one connection on the side.
> Now I know I will hafta get some 2 way connection so that it doesn't branch
> off but I remember reading something having been done with the stock boost
> solenoid. I looked at it and it has one hose on the top which goes to
> something and what looks to be a port underneath but it capped. I tried to
> take the cap off but it wouldn't come off. Anyone who can please help me, I
> would appreciate it. I have tried looking at the Swiss Turbo basic's page
> and other pages related but with my dyslexia I get confused. Thanks for any
> and all help.
--
Drive faster, it is later than you think!
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 7 16:05:59 1999
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From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: "Joshua" <joshua@unconundrum.com>, <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Uninstalling a HKS EVC IV Help please
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 01:04:47 +0200
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>1 hose is connected to the back of the y-pipe
>1 hose is connected to a y split on the top of the plenum close to the
front
>1 hose is attached to a 4 way connection. I assume this is the H
connection
>Now I know I will hafta get some 2 way connection so that it doesn't branch
>off but I remember reading something having been done with the stock boost
>something and what looks to be a port underneath but it capped. I tried to
Ok, here's the picture :
- from the back of the y-pipe the hose is directly connected to the 4-way
connector
- from the 4-way connector, one hose must go up to the black boost solenoid.
It is located just above the 4-way connector and sits on the firewall.
Remove the cap of the port and attach the hose from the 4-way connector to
it.
- from the top port the hose runs down close to the intake of the rear
turbo. It should be still attached.
- Remove the T split from the top of the plenum and assure that the line is
going up to the throttle body and then leads underneath the MAS housing wher
it is connected to the bypass valve.
That's it, nothing more is necessary (remove the HKS box out of the car).
The car shoud then be driven carefully for testing and it should have
noticeably less power. If it has more, you forgot to reconnect one of these
hoses. Check everything again then. Also, have a look at the DSBC
installation page on my SwissCars site as there are some pics that can be
helpful. If you do the reverse than described you'll be fine.
Hope this helps,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 7 16:34:15 1999
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Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 16:33:54 -0700
From: "Dr. John A. Tabler" <jtabler@summitmicro.com>
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Subject: Team3S: Air Cleaner advice sought
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Hello all,
When I last changed my air filter ('92 VR4) I noticed that the bargain
filter element had failed. The glue used to hold the fiber webbing to
the black plastic frame had not held. I replaced it with a "puralator
premium", which has two additional plastic ribs holding the filter media
in place.
The filter element cost over $21.
What are my options for an after market air cleaner with washable filter
media?
Thanks,
John
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 7 17:07:06 1999
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From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: "Dr. John A. Tabler" <jtabler@summitmicro.com>,
"3000GT" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Air Cleaner advice sought
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:01:52 -0700
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Hi John;
Try K&N for a slip in that is washable.
Darc
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 7 19:20:21 1999
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From: "Bill Miller" <millebi@kw.igs.net>
Organization: Very little ... as always
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 22:21:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Team3S: Info for FAQ, wheel junkies (ADMINS CHECK PLEASE)
Reply-to: millebi@kw.igs.net
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Winter tire brands comments :
I use 225/45ZR17 Stemperit (German make) Unidirectional snow tires. They are
excellent in snow but I recommend getting a larger profile to keep the speedo
closer (50 profile should be about right). The 225 width is about as thin as
you want to get otherwise it can pop off too easily on the stock rims.
I have also used a Michelin (unknown model) when I ruined one of the
Stemperit's, it is bi-directional and seems to work just fine. It is also a
snow tire.
Summer tires I use are the stock Goodyear Eagles and Micheline Pilot MXX3. Both
great tires for normal daily use. Goodyear is a tad expensive though. (Stock
sizes as well).
Bill
91 TT "Old Red"
Humpty Dumpty was pushed...
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 7 19:42:29 1999
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Message-ID: <007101bef9a3$ae61e7f0$a0e586cd@sch>
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
To: "Dr. John A. Tabler" <jtabler@summitmicro.com>,
"Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Air Cleaner advice sought
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:39:11 -0700
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-----Original Message-----From: Dr. John A. Tabler
<jtabler@summitmicro.com>
> When I last changed my air filter ('92 VR4) I noticed that the
bargain
>filter element had failed. The glue used to hold the fiber webbing
to
>the black plastic frame had not held. I replaced it with a
"puralator
>premium", which has two additional plastic ribs holding the filter
media
>in place. The filter element cost over $21.
>What are my options for an after market air cleaner with washable
filter
>media?
You endanger your engine by using bargain filters, which may pass
large particles into your engine. This may easily affect how long
the engine lasts, so there is NO money saved-- quite the opposite...
The stock OEM replacement drop-in and the K&N drop-in are both made
to much tighter tolerances and provide good filtering. But the K&N
is reusable, so even though it is close to twice the price of the
OEM, it is still the more economical choice since it is a one-time
purchase.
The (recommended) choice that many of us on the list have made is to
replace the stock airbox entirely with a K&N FIPK (Filter Injection
Performance Kit, ~$145). It is an oval housing and element,
installed in about 1/2 hr, which is totally legal and still
maintains your warranty (it comes with a FED-rated metal sticker
with chapter & verse). This oil-bath filter needs infrequent
cleaning (except in VERY dusty environments), and it actually works
BETTER, the dirtier it gets! It has the added benefit of letting
much more air into your throttle body, which probably prolongs the
life of your engine by making it work less hard at high revs to get
the air it needs. It has close to twice as much surface area as the
stock filter.
And another "little perk"-- it gives you a nice healthy boost to
your stock horsepower (you can FEEL the difference)! When I tested
my Stealth NT on a dyno recently, it showed a 6 hp gain over stock!
(The bigger engines will surely show more like 12 hp - K&N claims up
to 15 hp). It feels like the engine had been 'held back' with the
stock airbox. Even if you're not into "mods", this is a smart,
simple modification that everyone should make. Highly Recommended!
Best,
Forrest
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 7 21:24:33 1999
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Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 22:34:45 -0600
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Disregard this junk email used to verify that I am on the 3000GT listserv
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 7 21:29:43 1999
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From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Adventures in braking
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I am still trying to find a source of cold air for my brake cooling system.
I had big scoops under the front valence, but some agricultural driving
through the grass at Blackhawk Farms ripped those suckers plumb off. I
could put 'em back on, but the way I drive I'll probably get off in the
grass again at 95 mph, and there they'll go again. Besides, my next
project involves putting on the Ground Control springs, so I'll lose an
inch of ground clearance -- I don't think scoops will fit under there any
more.
I was snooping around up front, and wondered:
If I could get those useless fog lights out, would there be enough room to
get a 2.5 in. air duct through there and around the radiator? Seems like
there's a lot of tubing and stuff in the way. Any road racers try this?
I pulled the inside front fender covers off to see if there is any air
available on either side of the intercoolers, but there's not much room
there, either.
The best solution seems to be an under-valence scoop -- it's the most
direct run, and it looks like Mitsu left an access hole in the valence for
this very purpose.
What are you other racers using to scoop air?
Rich/old poop/94 VR4/somebody stop me!
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 8 07:03:38 1999
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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:03:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Dennis Moore <stealth@kiva.net>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Floor Jack Recommendations?
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Can any of you recommend a particular brand/model of floor jack for our
cars? Is there anything especially good or bad I should look for when
selecting one? Thanks.
Dennis Moore
93 Stealth ES
stealth@kiva.net
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 8 07:35:52 1999
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From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Floor Jack Recommendations?
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:39:23 -0500
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Get the largest one you can afford. Generally look to spend ~150.00 for a
decent jack.
I'm using a 70.00 jack that has ~20" of lift and its working well, but its
not the greatest jack in the world (on/off type lowering)
Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Dennis Moore
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 9:04 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Floor Jack Recommendations?
Can any of you recommend a particular brand/model of floor jack for our
cars? Is there anything especially good or bad I should look for when
selecting one? Thanks.
Dennis Moore
93 Stealth ES
stealth@kiva.net
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 8 07:48:37 1999
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Reply-To: <beking@home.com>
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Floor Jack Recommendations?
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 07:49:16 -0700
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One thing to consider is the minimum height. If your car is lowered you may
not be able to get the jack underneath the chassis, and it may be
problematic even with a stock car depnding upon how high the jack is at
rest.
I bought a small/medium sized (2.5 ton) floor jack and at minimum extension
it barely fits beneath my '94 VR4 with about a 1.5" drop. It will not clear
the front of the car with the active aero in place and just barely squeaks
past the side moldings on the side of the car.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Get the largest one you can afford. Generally look to spend ~150.00 for a
> decent jack.
>
> I'm using a 70.00 jack that has ~20" of lift and its working well, but its
> not the greatest jack in the world (on/off type lowering)
>
>
> Brad
> Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
> E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 8 07:51:58 1999
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From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Floor Jack Recommendations?
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:55:28 -0500
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This can be remedied by using 2X4's to drive the desired wheels onto. :)
I have cars here all the time that have ~3" or less of ground clearance that
makes for a tricky jacking technique.
Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Barry E. King
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 9:49 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Floor Jack Recommendations?
One thing to consider is the minimum height. If your car is lowered you may
not be able to get the jack underneath the chassis, and it may be
problematic even with a stock car depnding upon how high the jack is at
rest.
I bought a small/medium sized (2.5 ton) floor jack and at minimum extension
it barely fits beneath my '94 VR4 with about a 1.5" drop. It will not clear
the front of the car with the active aero in place and just barely squeaks
past the side moldings on the side of the car.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Get the largest one you can afford. Generally look to spend ~150.00 for a
> decent jack.
>
> I'm using a 70.00 jack that has ~20" of lift and its working well, but its
> not the greatest jack in the world (on/off type lowering)
>
>
> Brad
> Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
> E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 8 09:12:51 1999
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From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
To:
Subject: Team3S: Free power antenna mast
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:12:36 -0700
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Hi all,
I have a used power antenna mast in which two of the joints are
sticky and don't always extend. It was like that on my car for the last 8
months or so and I finally gave up trying to make it fully extend. If
anyone wants it, speak up - I'll mail it to you for free:) BTW, when I
replaced my mast, it took me all of 10 minutes and I'd never done it before.
I know someone was talking about removing trunk trim panels and other stuff
a while back - that's definitely not necessary to replace the mast. (The
motor, OTOH...ugh)
--Erik
------ ----------
Erik Gross DuPont, WA
'95 Pearl White 3000GT (base, DOHC) 59,000 mi
Firestone Firehawk 245/50/ZR16 tires, stock wheels
Magnacor KV85 spark plug wires, NGK plugs @ 0.040"
K&N FIPK (57-1500), resonator intact
Mobil 1 10W30 Synthetic w/ OEM oil filter
***No more ticking lash adjusters! Treated with GM EOS, BG
44K FI cleaner. Change oil every 2000mi, filter 4000mi ***
-------------------------------------------------------------
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 8 13:12:24 1999
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Message-ID: <009601befa36$a7cc13a0$7582cdcf@rtr>
From: "Bob Rand" <rtr@vnet.net>
To: "Dennis Moore" <stealth@kiva.net>, <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Floor Jack Recommendations?
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:44:04 -0400
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Got mine at Sears, works great. 90 bucks with 2 jack stands.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Moore <stealth@kiva.net>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 10:04 AM
Subject: Team3S: Floor Jack Recommendations?
>Can any of you recommend a particular brand/model of floor jack for our
>cars? Is there anything especially good or bad I should look for when
>selecting one? Thanks.
>
>Dennis Moore
>93 Stealth ES
>stealth@kiva.net
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 8 13:17:25 1999
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Message-ID: <37D6C3F7.E77D9218@swissonline.ch>
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 22:15:51 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
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To: Team3S List <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: VR4 Tranny for sale (forwarded info)
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I got this message today :
------------
Hi Roger
I see you on the TMO list talking about 3000s. We have a fairly new
3000GT 5 speed transmission for sale. One of our customers is selling it. It is
the Getrag, does not have the transfer case. He wants $1500 for it.
Numbers on it are W5MG1-0-FNBR
Mike Welch
Road Race Engineering
mike@roadraceengineering.com
------------
Get in contact with them directly if interested.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 8 13:42:38 1999
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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:40:52 EDT
Subject: Re: Team3S: VR4 Tranny for sale (forwarded info)
To: robby@swissonline.ch, stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
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I don't know if anyone is interested in this tranny, but if anyone is, be
sure to count the splines on your transfer case beforehand. There are a
variety of transfer case/tranny assemblies that Mitsu and Dodge used on our
AWD cars. Some have 18 splines, others have 21 and 23 splines. Just a word
of caution.
Joe.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 8 17:03:04 1999
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From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
To: "Jeff" <spydervr4@home.com>, "Sirius" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: OBD II year; Atomic Motorsports
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:59:14 -0500
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>As far as I know, your car is OBDI. My car has o2 sensors before and after
>the precats. It also has an OBDII style diagnnostic connector. However, I
>hooked up an OBDII datalogger and it didn't work on any of the OBDII
>protocols. I checked under the hood and on one of the stickers, it read in
>small text "OBDI Certified."
>> Jack T. told me that if I didn't have Ox sensors both before and after
>> my precats, I didn't have OBD-2. This agrees with my Factory Shop
>> Manuals. I have a 1995 VR-4, and I have not been able to find any
>> Ox sensors after my precats. Am I correct or wrong on this? I've
>> been convinced for quite a while that I have OBD-1. Am I wrong?
>> Regards,
>> ptg
Also, there is no mention of OBD anything on any of the 6 or 7 labels
stuck on the underside of my hood. I checked them closely. So far
I assume I have OBD 1 until I am proven wrong, which might be easy
for someone really "in the know."
I'm still in a quandry as to what the pin functions for my ECU really
are, since I've been told that my '95 VR-4 probably has a hybrid ECU,
perhaps not conforming to the pin-functions of either an OBD1 or
OBD2. Hell, I found a diagram in the APEXi book that exatly replicates
the Mitsubishi diagram in my OEM shop manual, so I'm gonna assume
they're compatible, and go ahead and wire it this way.
My last problem regarding hooking up the hardware is where to
penetrate the firewall with the wiring. Any Ideas?
Regards, ptg
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 8 18:24:03 1999
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From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: VR4 Tranny for sale (forwarded info)
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:22:11 -0700
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Joe;
Thanks for the heads up. It can become a real bumber for the unware buyer in
such a circumstance, and people like you are what make this group famous.
Thanks for those who didn't know.
Darc
-----Original Message-----
From: TrboDrvr@aol.com <TrboDrvr@aol.com>
To: robby@swissonline.ch <robby@swissonline.ch>;
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: VR4 Tranny for sale (forwarded info)
>I don't know if anyone is interested in this tranny, but if anyone is, be
>sure to count the splines on your transfer case beforehand. There are a
>variety of transfer case/tranny assemblies that Mitsu and Dodge used on our
>AWD cars. Some have 18 splines, others have 21 and 23 splines. Just a
word
>of caution.
>
>Joe.
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 9 03:15:49 1999
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Reply-To: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: "Sirius" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: OBD II year;
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:16:00 +0200
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>Also, there is no mention of OBD anything on any of the 6 or 7 labels
>stuck on the underside of my hood. I checked them closely. So far
>I assume I have OBD 1 until I am proven wrong, which might be easy
>for someone really "in the know."
You have a "quasi ODB-II". Strange, but it uses the same protocol as the
ODBII cars but needs a special scanner hardware to read the codes from the
ECU.
>I'm still in a quandry as to what the pin functions for my ECU really
>are, since I've been told that my '95 VR-4 probably has a hybrid ECU,
>perhaps not conforming to the pin-functions of either an OBD1 or
>OBD2.
Exactly ! But the pin layout should be the same of your year and the full
ODB-II years.
>Hell, I found a diagram in the APEXi book that exatly replicates
>the Mitsubishi diagram in my OEM shop manual, so I'm gonna assume
>they're compatible, and go ahead and wire it this way.
The wires should not be a problem at all.
>My last problem regarding hooking up the hardware is where to
>penetrate the firewall with the wiring. Any Ideas?
The rubber gromet on the left (behind and up the pedals) or right side
(behind the under panel cover near the venting fan)
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 9 08:07:22 1999
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From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
To:
Subject: Team3S: Free Antenna Mast *gone*
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:06:58 -0700
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Thanks to all who replied.
And now, Bob, our next item is a slightly used Getrash tranny! Is it behind
Door #1, Door #2, or Door#3?
j/k :)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 9 08:42:04 1999
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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 08:41:58 -0700
From: "Dr. John A. Tabler" <jtabler@summitmicro.com>
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To: 3000GT <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: engine squeaks when it rains
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Hi All,
My engine squeaks when it rains. A very slight, high pitched sound
which goes away after 5-10 minutes. Sounds like it is coming from the
area of the belts.
I used to notice this problem when it rained, but before I could
diagnose it the dry season started. It has not rained here for at least
four months. Last night we got some rain and this morning the engine
squeaked. The car ('92 VR4 TT no mods) is kept in a garage at home and
under cover at work. It did not even get wet, so it must be a humidity
issue rather than something getting soaked.
I am hoping that someone here has experienced this and has a solution or
explanation.
Thanks,
John
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 9 08:48:47 1999
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From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
To: "3000GT" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: engine squeaks when it rains
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:52:25 -0500
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It is either the belts need tightened/replaced or a tensioner that has a bad
bearing.
Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Dr. John A. Tabler
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 10:42 AM
To: 3000GT
Subject: Team3S: engine squeaks when it rains
Hi All,
My engine squeaks when it rains. A very slight, high pitched sound
which goes away after 5-10 minutes. Sounds like it is coming from the
area of the belts.
I used to notice this problem when it rained, but before I could
diagnose it the dry season started. It has not rained here for at least
four months. Last night we got some rain and this morning the engine
squeaked. The car ('92 VR4 TT no mods) is kept in a garage at home and
under cover at work. It did not even get wet, so it must be a humidity
issue rather than something getting soaked.
I am hoping that someone here has experienced this and has a solution or
explanation.
Thanks,
John
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 9 09:04:01 1999
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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 11:02:26 -0500
From: Gabriel Estrada <typhoonzz@earthlink.net>
Subject: Team3S: Engine Coolant Light
To: 3000GT <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
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Having a problem with my VR-4. I am going through about a gallon of
anti-freeze every 3 days. I have a completely dry garage and absolutely no
leaks that I can find with the motor idleing. My first suspiscion would be
a water pump, but in my not knowing what to look for, as I have no clue
where it is. Not familiar with breaking down the motor in these cars?
Anyone else have this problem? Can't find any breaks in the radiator lines
I don't know what else to look for. Also the a/c warning light comes on
intermittantly and when I start it up, have no a/c. Kill the motor and
restart and the a/c is fine.
Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance,
Gabriel Estrada
94 Pearl Yellow VR-4
92 GMC Black Typhoon
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 9 11:42:10 1999
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From: "Bob Rand" <rtr@vnet.net>
To: "Gabriel Estrada" <typhoonzz@earthlink.net>,
"3000GT" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Engine Coolant Light
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:43:57 -0400
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Gabriel, Sometimes the loss of engine coolant with no visible sign of a
leak can be attributied to a blown head gasket or cracked head. The coolant
is vaporized in the combustion process.
check your spark plugs for an even burn pattern between all the plugs. If
you find one that looks exceptionally clean compared to the others, it may
lead to the problem.
Bob
93 STealth TT
-----Original Message-----
From: Gabriel Estrada <typhoonzz@earthlink.net>
To: 3000GT <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Thursday, September 09, 1999 12:04 PM
Subject: Team3S: Engine Coolant Light
>Having a problem with my VR-4. I am going through about a gallon of
>anti-freeze every 3 days. I have a completely dry garage and absolutely no
>leaks that I can find with the motor idleing. My first suspiscion would be
>a water pump, but in my not knowing what to look for, as I have no clue
>where it is. Not familiar with breaking down the motor in these cars?
>Anyone else have this problem? Can't find any breaks in the radiator lines
>I don't know what else to look for. Also the a/c warning light comes on
>intermittantly and when I start it up, have no a/c. Kill the motor and
>restart and the a/c is fine.
>Any suggestions?
>Thanks in advance,
>Gabriel Estrada
>94 Pearl Yellow VR-4
>92 GMC Black Typhoon
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 9 15:25:07 1999
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From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: "Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Interlude
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:22:54 -0700
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Woah....that interlude music nearly lulled me to sleep while I was waiting
for activity here.
Question; Was the CD trunk stacker an option in 92? Nah, I really wasn't
asking that was I, I really wanted to know if you Spearco guys have really
stopped detonation with your setup?? I'll accept answers for either or both.
Darc
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 10 01:21:25 1999
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To: Jeff <spydervr4@home.com>, stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: B&M "New Volt" ignition amplifier
References: <CB1B2EAE12C5D2119E0000805F9F822101AEF959@otcmsg09.carlson.com> <37D58BF2.82EB4907@swissonline.ch> <017301bef9ad$e347bb20$f4320418@grlnd1.tx.home.com> <37D6A66C.F736222F@swissonline.ch> <035b01befb46$43b28cd0$f4320418@grlnd1.tx.home.com>
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> Roger, a 2 step is a second rev limiter.
Ok, got it :)
> Where you might set your primary rev limiter at 7000 or 7500, you would set
> your secondary one at 4500 or 5000. The secondary limiter is activated when
> you press the clutch pedal in and is used for WOT shifting and consistent
> launching.
Makes a lot sense to me !
> Attached is an e-mail I received from an MSD representative.
I also attached the response from the development manager at B&M (not a sales
guy) I spoke with.
I directly forwared your questions as well as mine
> I replyed to the MSD representative and asked for some hard numbers that
> would show me their product is better and I am now waiting on a reply. I
> tried calling B&M on two separate occasions and on both I talked to idiots.
> No one up there, when I called anyway, knows anything about the product.
> They just "know that their product is better."
Unfortunately you got the sales dept on the phone. We were lucky and have been
able to speak with the development manager and the guy who lead the project.
> Both MSD and B&M claim their products will not work together but no one can
> supply a REASON and the only one I can come up with is all the power would
> toast the stock ignition coils.
To be honest, I think the information I got from B&M is more professional then
the stuff MSD sent you. Maybe this was really only a salesmen and it would be a
good thing to get hold of a tech there.
I will forward the question about the two-stage rev-limiter and maybe Ken has a
solution for this :)
Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
--------------
Roger,
As to wiring the unit, there are three wires - 1) power in, 2) power out, 3)
ground. The unit's footprint is 2.25" x 5.2" and is about 1.5" tall. There are
no special mounting requirements because it was originally designed for a
marine environment. On your attached drawing, you will want cut the main power
feed to the three coils. You will then attach the red wire from the New Volt
to the "power feed" wire (12 volts in) and attach the orange wire from the
New Volt to the wire feeding the coils. Last you will ground the black wire
from the New Volt.
In regards to your questions, first let's talk about the DIS-4. This unit has
been the cause of problems on several local 3000GT VR4s. In fact, I do not
know of anyone currently running these units. Based on this statement, I do
not recommend trying to use the New Volt with the DIS-4.
The question about millijoules is only relevant on a CD type ignition (and
even that is more of a "marketing" term). The bottom line is how much heat
(current) is being exposed at the plug. This number is also very dependent
on the coil being tested. Example: Typical stock HEI (High Energy Ignition)
will produce about 40-60 milliamps at the plug, MSD with blaster coil: 350-400
milliamps at plug, Crane HI-8 with PS-93 coil: 1600 milliamps at plug, New Volt
with stock coil: 1500-2000 milliamps at plug.
An interesting point is with a new coil I'm testing that was matched to the New
Volt characteristics and a coil driver (igniter) capable of handling high
current, I recently measured 22000 milliamps (22 amps!) at the plug.
As far as using aftermarket coils, I'm working on a "twin tower" coil right now
that will be designed specifically for use with the New Volt - probably six
months or so.
Hope this helps,
Ken
--------------------
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 10 07:54:32 1999
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From: "Wallis, Gavin" <WallisG@MWAA.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: FAQ update
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I figure I'll throw you guys an update each Friday just to let you know
where things are. Additionally a commitment to update makes sure I don't
abandon the project ;). (coughcoughprobablycoughcough)
I've gotten a ton of e-mails I haven't responded to this week, (my fiancé's,
mother's wedding on Sun), but the info I've been receiving *has* been going
into the FAQ. Thanks to everyone who has contributed thus far. Keep it
coming.
A decision I'm bouncing around in my head right now is how to best take care
of "product comparison" questions in the FAQ. Problems: 1) new technology is
always coming out 2) lots of opinion(s) involved. If anyone has a bright
idea on how to best handle this, lemme know. It has to be tackled because I
think this is a source of some of our most repetitive questions.
Finally, I'll have a page or two that I will pass around soon. Basically it
is to see if you guys like the way I've organized things right now. It'll be
in Word 97. If you don't have Word, I'll e-mail you a copy. <g>
Regards and have a good weekend,
Gavin
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 10 09:10:10 1999
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From: "nketo" <nketo@accglobal.net>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: transmissions for our cars...
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:41:06 -0800
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Hello everyone.
I'm writing this letter for a major concern that plagues us all; tranny
problems.
I'm wondering if anyone can get parts or kits for the 3000 "Getrag"
transmission.
Chrysler is now offering rebuild transmissions from the factory for half the
cost
up here in Canada.
If it's possible, then there must be some parts available for it.
Also, if there is any upgrades that can be done (regardless of cost), what
can be
ordered/made as an upgrade to our ultra powerful cars?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Noble
(nketo@accglobal.net)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 10 09:38:56 1999
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From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: "nketo" <nketo@accglobal.net>, <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: transmissions for our cars...
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:31:44 -0700
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Hey Noble;
Try phoning MD Auto in San Diego. They are likely the source you are looking
for. Phone # is 619-390-0450. There are also hardened output shafts availed
through Komex Transmission Parts (ask for Frank) at 1-800-429-5464.
As far as upgrading goes (improved/redesigned parts) I have heard of
nothing. BUT, the hardened output shaft noted, is reputed to be far better
than the original Getrash part. Rumor (only rumor) is that Getrash is now
making replacement components of a uniform quality which maybe means a
better quality steel than previously used...or at least quality control.
These better components are now finding their way into the marketplace via
means that are anyone's guess.
Darc
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 10 15:31:59 1999
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From: "Shawn and Sarah Cullen" <spcullen@prodigy.net>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Question -- noise when turning off engine
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:33:24 -0500
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Question -- for the past couple hundred miles, whenever I turn my engine off
I hear a funny kind of a squeak/grind coming from under the hood.
Occasionally, I'll hear it when I hit 2-3k rpm when accelerating very
slowly, but this is hard to replicate. Under normal or hard accleration, I
don't hear it, though this is likely because I'm ramping through the
sensitive speed more quickly.
I thought it was a belt going bad. I had the timing belt, tensioner, water
pump, drive belts, replaced today (60k anyway) and still makes the noise
when I turn off the engine.
I don't really notice any performance deficiencies, leaking fluids, etc. I
just want my car to stop making this noise -- it worries me a bit.
btw, my car is a 92 SL auto tranny (forgive me). It makes the noise when
the engine is turned off whether the car is in park or neutral, in case that
makes any difference (thought perhaps the shifter linkage was vibrating
against the K&N mounting brace -- it's pretty close in proximity but this
test discounts that theory).
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
SC92SL
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 10 17:01:25 1999
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From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
To: "nketo" <nketo@accglobal.net>, "Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: transmissions for our cars...
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:59:56 -0700
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Hey, Noble,
Here's a partial reply, below, posted to the list about 2 weeks ago
by Darcy. I'll email you privately later with more details.
Good luck,
Forrest
from Darcy, wce@bc.sympatico.ca:
"Getrag does not make parts available for replacement/repair of
their units. All faulty trannies are either sent back to them or
junked. However, Getrag replacement parts have found their way
to a few stateside outlets by clandestine means, and whole/part
rebuilds are now being performed. There are also a couple of
places here which make after market output shafts, transfer case
sleeves. etc. As you are interested in essentially rebuilding
your tranny, you might contact MD Auto at 6460 S. Convoy Court,
in San Diego ph. 619-390-0450. They do rebuilds and take your
old one as trade They may also be able to supply you with
whatever you need if anticipating doing it yourself."
-----Original Message-----
From: nketo <nketo@accglobal.net>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Friday, September 10, 1999 9:10 AM
Subject: Team3S: transmissions for our cars...
>Hello everyone.
>
>I'm writing this letter for a major concern that plagues us all;
tranny
>problems.
>I'm wondering if anyone can get parts or kits for the 3000 "Getrag"
>transmission.
>Chrysler is now offering rebuild transmissions from the factory for
half the
>cost
>up here in Canada.
>If it's possible, then there must be some parts available for it.
>
>Also, if there is any upgrades that can be done (regardless of
cost), what
>can be
>ordered/made as an upgrade to our ultra powerful cars?
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 10 18:43:11 1999
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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:42:34 -0400
From: Al <abrett@bit-net.com>
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Have practically brand new set of Konig Villian wheels with new
BFGoodrich Comp TA's, I also Have a Borla exhaust system thats 3 months
old and a K&N FIPK Air Cleaner setup thats four months old. I'm Selling
the car want to try and get some of my money back if I can, I am located
just outside of Concord, NH, email me at abrett@bit-net.com for more
info....also car is for sale too...
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 10 19:58:15 1999
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From: "Kevin" <Kevin@pacarsearch.com>
To: "Shawn and Sarah Cullen" <spcullen@prodigy.net>,
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
References: <001a01befbdc$82251dc0$630e9cd1@oemcomputer>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Question -- noise when turning off engine
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:58:13 -0400
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The noise you describe sounds like the honking goose Roger is researching.
I think someone else with a NT noticed this sound after installing the K&N
filter.
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: Shawn and Sarah Cullen <spcullen@prodigy.net>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 6:33 PM
Subject: Team3S: Question -- noise when turning off engine
> Question -- for the past couple hundred miles, whenever I turn my engine
off
> I hear a funny kind of a squeak/grind coming from under the hood.
> Occasionally, I'll hear it when I hit 2-3k rpm when accelerating very
> slowly, but this is hard to replicate. Under normal or hard accleration,
I
> don't hear it, though this is likely because I'm ramping through the
> sensitive speed more quickly.
>
> I thought it was a belt going bad. I had the timing belt, tensioner,
water
> pump, drive belts, replaced today (60k anyway) and still makes the noise
> when I turn off the engine.
>
> I don't really notice any performance deficiencies, leaking fluids, etc.
I
> just want my car to stop making this noise -- it worries me a bit.
>
> btw, my car is a 92 SL auto tranny (forgive me). It makes the noise when
> the engine is turned off whether the car is in park or neutral, in case
that
> makes any difference (thought perhaps the shifter linkage was vibrating
> against the K&N mounting brace -- it's pretty close in proximity but this
> test discounts that theory).
>
> Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
>
> SC92SL
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 10 21:07:47 1999
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From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
To: "team 3si" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Fw: Adventures in braking
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:04:40 -0700
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>
> From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
>
> > I am still trying to find a source of cold air for my brake cooling system.
> >
> > I had big scoops under the front valence, but some agricultural driving
> > through the grass at Blackhawk Farms ripped those suckers plumb off. I
> > could put 'em back on, but the way I drive I'll probably get off in the
> > grass again at 95 mph, and there they'll go again. Besides, my next project
> > involves putting on the Ground Control springs, so I'll lose an inch of
> > ground clearance -- I don't think scoops will fit under there any more.
===============================================
I'd still like someone with an unlimited racing budget to try one of those
turbo fans. Hell you could even take air from the A/C condenser and
duct it onto the brakes. It would be fairly easy to set up a ten second
timer to blow air when the brakes are touched and even injecting water
would be fairly easy. The price as I recall was about $300 for the inline
blower which is about the price of a set of cryo treated rotors. It has the
added advantage of being speed independent, you need the cooling the
most in the twisty bits where the speed is slowest. It can be disabled for
everyday use and has no scoops hanging down that get scraped off.
Jim Berry >>> 93 stealth TT ---- "arrest me red"
K&N FIPK -- Magnicore/.034" --- Blitz SSBC
--- GAB struts --- Stillen SS lines
GC/Eibach 600# F/350# R --- GC caster/camber plate
Yokohama AVS sport 255x40x17
Gtech --- 0-60 = 4.75 -- 1/4 = 13.3 @ 110 mph
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Sep 11 05:14:01 1999
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Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:20:09 -0400
From: dgkessler@netexp.com (Kessler, D.)
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To: Al <abrett@bit-net.com>
CC: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: 95 3000SL Parts for Sale
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How much are you asking for the items?
Don Kessler
1993 R/T TT
3si #152
Al wrote:
>
> Have practically brand new set of Konig Villian wheels with new
> BFGoodrich Comp TA's, I also Have a Borla exhaust system thats 3 months
> old and a K&N FIPK Air Cleaner setup thats four months old. I'm Selling
> the car want to try and get some of my money back if I can, I am located
> just outside of Concord, NH, email me at abrett@bit-net.com for more
> info....also car is for sale too...
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Sep 11 10:05:45 1999
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From: Joshua <joshua@unconundrum.com>
To: "'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Questions, Questions Questions
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:05:19 -0400
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Ok first question, My engine in my car is out and I figured I might as well
get the clutch replaced. I can't decide between the Dual Friction and RPS
stage 2 Claw. I don't want the stage 3 cause of the problems a lot of
people had with them. The Stage 2 doesn't have the carbon fiber clutch. I
would really appreciate if anyone has driven both and could say which was
better. I want the one which will last the longest with abuse but only
street racing.
My second question deals with my car's engine spun the 3rd rod bearing. I
have a warranty which covers the whole engine. I am curious if there is
anything else to the car I should do while getting a new engine. Any
performance things which would be to my benefit while it is out but I don't
wan to spend a fortune. Thanks for any and all assistance.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Sep 11 12:20:55 1999
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Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:15:37 -0500
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Adventures in braking
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Got a new set of brake scoops on, under the valence. These don't protrude
down as much, so they should survive an off in the grass.
I started to install the water cooling system, but ran into a snag. I'm
running the water line directly to the center of the rotor (not the braking
surface) instead of injecting into the ducts. Problem is, the only place I
can install the pump is atop the radiator shroud. Alas, this is above the
windshield washer reservoir, and the pump doesn't have enough oomph to suck
up the water (even after I primed it).
The stock windshield washers work great, and I see where I can tap into the
hose going to the squirters and divert water to the brakes. This would be
OK -- all I gotta do then is swap the hose at each event. It's not likely
I'd need windshield washers during an open-track event or an autocross.
Problem is, I can't find the wire leading to the washer pump cuz it's
BURIED down there behind the engine.
If I can find it, I'll rig a line to the brake switch. Anybody know where I
could tap into this wire? Seems like I could get to it at the steering
wheel or anywhere en route to the washer pump.
Rich/old poop/94 VR4/somebody stop me!
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Sep 11 13:58:28 1999
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Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:01:11 -0400
From: "J. Stephen Gula" <loco3kgt@creepingdeath.com>
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I can see how water would cool the brakes.. but owuldn't it be bad to
use it while braking... I could see if yuo misted the air intake during
straight-aways of after a turn cause it gives hte water time to dry..
but I don't understand why put water on the surface (where you need the
friction) while you're trying to cause friction. But then again, I'm no
engineer. Care to explain? Thanks.
--Steve "Loco3KGT" Gula
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Sep 11 14:39:20 1999
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To: "J. Stephen Gula" <loco3kgt@creepingdeath.com>,
Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Adventures in braking
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At 05:01 PM 9/11/99 -0400, J. Stephen Gula wrote:
>I can see how water would cool the brakes.. but owuldn't it be bad to
>use it while braking... I could see if yuo misted the air intake during
>straight-aways of after a turn cause it gives hte water time to dry..
>but I don't understand why put water on the surface (where you need the
>friction) while you're trying to cause friction. But then again, I'm no
>engineer. Care to explain? Thanks.
>
The water does not go directly onto the braking surface.
In TransAm cars, they inject water straight down inside the rotor, by
squirting it into the air vents (our rotors, like most high-performance
cars, have vented rotors). I plan to squirt water at the dead center of the
rotor hub, where the air vents start. If that doesn't work, I'll try the
TransAm method. Injecting water into the air stream going to the brakes
works, too. I'm squirting at the center of the hub because it's the easiest
to plumb.
But even if I did get some water on the braking surface, at the
temperatures we run at open track sessions, the water would instantly flash
to steam. In fact, there is a theory that racing brakes reach such high
temperatures that they create a thermodynamic "shield" (kinda like the
China Syndrome) that keeps cooling air and water away from the surface.
Fortunately, I don't run quite that hot.
With a water-injected system, I gotta shut it off when I leave the track,
else it will do exactly what you describe to a set of cold brakes. Water
injected brakes are not something that can be used on the street.
Rich/old poop/VR4/somebody stop me!
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Sep 11 14:40:22 1999
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From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>, "Merritt" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Brake cooling. (was:Adv. in braking)
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:39:17 -0700
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Hey, Rich,
I know you've been exploring air scoops and you're going after water
cooling for your brakes, but is there a chance there are other ways?
I was looking through some NOS pages, and it dawned on me that
either bottled compressed air (or CO2 or NOS) would be even colder
than water and spread more evenly over the heated surfaces...
Then there's the even better possibility of using some 12v air pumps
(the ones for inflating watercraft, ~$27 each) that would trigger
off the brakes with a microswitch. They would be noisy out in the
open, but you could bury 4 of them in the trunk in a foam-lined box
with lots of holes in it. Hell, you could even put a couple of
chunks of dry ice in the box for even more cooling. Those little
centrifugal pumps kick out air like a little hair dryer... Attach a
1/2" hose on the output end and you could direct it anywhere...
Each pump is rated at 450liters/minute, so you might get away with
using only 2 pumps. Even 4 pumps would use less battery power than
a stereo, at only 9 amps a piece... In fact, for the same weight of
water you would be carrying for the spray system, you could carry a
31 amp hr deep-cycle marine gel battery (~20lbs) and not have to use
the car battery at all. That would give you over 50 continuous
minutes of brake cooling at the full speed of 4 pumps.
Think of more than 7 liters per second of cool air blowing past the
brakes-- that's not a breeze, it's a gale! And it can get rid of a
whole lot of heat without wetting anything, or having to hook up a
washer system...
Just some food for thought...
Forrest
-----Original Message-----From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
>Got a new set of brake scoops on, under the valence. These don't
protrude
>down as much, so they should survive an off in the grass.
>
>I started to install the water cooling system, but ran into a snag.
I'm
>running the water line directly to the center of the rotor (not the
braking
>surface) instead of injecting into the ducts. Problem is, the only
place I
>can install the pump is atop the radiator shroud. Alas, this is
above the
>windshield washer reservoir, and the pump doesn't have enough oomph
to suck
>up the water (even after I primed it).
---------snip-----------
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Sep 11 15:41:23 1999
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Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:54:18 -0500
To: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>, <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Brake cooling. (was:Adv. in braking)
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At 02:39 PM 9/11/99 -0700, Bob Forrest wrote:
>Hey, Rich,
>
>I know you've been exploring air scoops and you're going after water
>cooling for your brakes, but is there a chance there are other ways?
>I was looking through some NOS pages, and it dawned on me that
>either bottled compressed air (or CO2 or NOS) would be even colder
>than water and spread more evenly over the heated surfaces...
<snip> >Then there's the even better possibility of using some 12v air pumps
>(the ones for inflating watercraft, ~$27 each) that would trigger
>off the brakes with a microswitch. They would be noisy out in the
>open, but you could bury 4 of them in the trunk in a foam-lined box
Geez, I dunno Bob. Seems a bit extreme.
Actually, with the Porterfield R4 pads and air ducts, I am getting close to
a workable solution. The water injection is like icing on the cake.
The acid test will be at Road America, with three one-mile straights and
braking from 140+ three times per lap.
Rich/somebody stop me!
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 13 10:45:39 1999
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To: Team3S List <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: List of mods and projects
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Hi friends,
I have been asked lately what all the (performance) mods are on my car at the
moment so I openend the hood and checked. Here's the list and what's next :
93'3000GT TT with 13G
- Blitz DSBC (max boost 1.05 kg/cm2)
- Blitz Dual Timer
- Apexi S-AFC (does nothing today)
- K&N FIPK
- ERL Water Injection
- Magnecor wires (no performance thing)
- GT Pro aluminum y-pipe, custom made with WI port
- ATR downpipe without cat (not installed for the next dyno session)
- Borla cat-back (not installed for next dyno session)
Project 1 (addon to the above):
- Denso (HKS) fuel pump (Thuesday)
- B&M "New Volt" ignition amplifier test (this/next week)
Test will be done with 0.045" gap on the plugs, no WI.
Dyno run if there is less knock with higher boost.
- Final tuning of the WI system to get rid of knock
Project 2 :
- 440cc injectors (DSM) with the help of the AFC (as soon as I get them)
and maybe other fuel control
Dyno run when properly tuned in with and w/out WI.
Project 3 :
- 720cc injectors (RC Eng.) with fuel control
Dyno run when properly tuned in with and w/out WI.
Project 4 :
- Precats
- additional rear precat is available:)
- new front pipe will be welded to ATR dp
Project 5 :
- Headers (ex-Gt Alley) are ready
- GT368 Turbos (20G) are ready
- Intercooler piping
Project 4 and 5 will be postboned to next year as I can't do any work on the car
during winter.
Also there is a huge FMIC lying around but the WI system insreases the
efficiency just very good !
Stay tuned,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 13 10:46:33 1999
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From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Admin Notice: List Problems...
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:30:17 -0700
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We are currently experiencing list problems... The ISP, Sirius is
working on it (so they say...)-- I'll keep you all posted, if even
I can get through...
Forrest
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 13 11:11:02 1999
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From: "Landis, Michael" <MLandis@casham.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: How long to break-in after overhaul before switching to synthetic
oil?
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:36:30 -0500
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Greetings list - I've got about 600 miles on my overhauled engine and am
ready to change the oil. Should I stick with conventional/petroleum-based
oil for another 3K miles to make sure the rings and everything are set, or
can I switch to Mobil1 or other synthetic now? Comments, please...
Thanks in advance,
Michael
'92 3000GT/SL
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 13 11:14:34 1999
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From: "Bob Rand" <rtr@vnet.net>
To: "Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Need some trouble shooting help
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:38:32 -0400
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Hi Guys, Need a little help! I want to check my turbo charging system and
make sure everything is up to snuff. Here is some info to help understand
where I am at right now.
. I have been running a Blitz dual sol. controller at 1 bar.
. one day had nice boost at 1 bar next day no noticeable boost (I say
noticeable because even if it was stock I cant tell because I was so used to
1 bar.)
. The blitz would not allow me to reset the max boost reading. It just
stayed at -39.
. The blitz also would not produce a boost reading. (normally if you rev
the engine even at no load the reading will go to 0.00.)
. I have talked with Mike at Altered Atmosphere and he will have the blitz
replaced if it is defective. ( Ya gotta love that guy, he really stands in
front of his customers)
But before I send the blitz to Mike, I wanted to check everything else and
make sure there is not another problem that might exist. I do not have a
vacuum gauge/pump, so if I can run the checks without it I would prefer
that. Any way, from what I have gleaned from the shop manual I should be
looking at the following:
vac. hoses
wastegate sol.
wastegates
turbos
bypass valve
If anyone is the resident expert that could give me a recommended course
and procedure to test my system, I would be greatly appreciate it. Along
with some explanation of procedures that might make more sense that the shop
manual does.
Bob
93 Stealth TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 13 11:18:20 1999
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Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:03:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Larry Rieders <vr4rieders@email.com>
To: Kevin <Kevin@pacarsearch.com>,
Shawn and Sarah Cullen <spcullen@prodigy.net>,
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Re: Team3S: Question -- noise when turning off engine
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I have heard the same noise, I believe it is the belt tension idler
"pulley". It also makes a clicking noise at idle.
Mine is a 93 VR4.
------Original Message------
From: "Kevin" <Kevin@pacarsearch.com>
To: Shawn and Sarah Cullen <spcullen@prodigy.net>,
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Sent: September 11, 1999 2:58:13 AM GMT
Subject: Re: Team3S: Question -- noise when turning off engine
The noise you describe sounds like the honking goose Roger is researching.
I think someone else with a NT noticed this sound after installing the K&N
filter.
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: Shawn and Sarah Cullen <spcullen@prodigy.net>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 6:33 PM
Subject: Team3S: Question -- noise when turning off engine
> Question -- for the past couple hundred miles, whenever I turn my engine
off
> I hear a funny kind of a squeak/grind coming from under the hood.
> Occasionally, I'll hear it when I hit 2-3k rpm when accelerating very
> slowly, but this is hard to replicate. Under normal or hard accleration,
I
> don't hear it, though this is likely because I'm ramping through the
> sensitive speed more quickly.
>
> I thought it was a belt going bad. I had the timing belt, tensioner,
water
> pump, drive belts, replaced today (60k anyway) and still makes the noise
> when I turn off the engine.
>
> I don't really notice any performance deficiencies, leaking fluids, etc.
I
> just want my car to stop making this noise -- it worries me a bit.
>
> btw, my car is a 92 SL auto tranny (forgive me). It makes the noise when
> the engine is turned off whether the car is in park or neutral, in case
that
> makes any difference (thought perhaps the shifter linkage was vibrating
> against the K&N mounting brace -- it's pretty close in proximity but this
> test discounts that theory).
>
> Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
>
> SC92SL
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 13 11:27:48 1999
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From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: "Bob Rand" <rtr@vnet.net>, "Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Need some trouble shooting help
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:26:18 +0200
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>. The blitz would not allow me to reset the max boost reading. It just
>stayed at -39.
I know, this sounds very stupid but are you sure you're not in the limiter
modus or manual set ? Are you sure one of the settings are showed (1-4)
Please note when you're in the settign mode the DSBC limits boost to stock
(even lower).
>. The blitz also would not produce a boost reading. (normally if you rev
>the engine even at no load the reading will go to 0.00.)
When you turn off the engine the reading MUST be 0.00. If not you're either
in anotherm ode or the thing is damged.
>. I have talked with Mike at Altered Atmosphere and he will have the blitz
>replaced if it is defective. ( Ya gotta love that guy, he really stands in
>front of his customers)
Well, but it would be really great if he'd alswer answer the emails :-)
>vac. hoses
>wastegate sol.
>wastegates
>turbos
>bypass valve
IMHO, none of the above. Is the car running ok so far ? Bogging, strange
whistle ? If the real time boost doesn't go to 0.00 when turn ign off the
thing is gone south or you're just in a setting mode. Would be the first one
I ever heard of. More like it sounds like the wiring to the solenoid box got
burnt and causes a short ciscuit. The good thing is the solenoids then stay
open and limit boost but this may cause damage to the whole system.
Hope this helps a little,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 13 12:06:38 1999
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From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
To: "Landis, Michael" <MLandis@casham.com>, <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: How long to break-in after overhaul before switching to synthetic oil?
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:05:29 -0700
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-----Original Message-----From: Landis, Michael <MLandis@casham.com>
>Greetings list - I've got about 600 miles on my overhauled engine
and am
>ready to change the oil. Should I stick with
conventional/petroleum-based
>oil for another 3K miles to make sure the rings and everything are
set, or
>can I switch to Mobil1 or other synthetic now? Comments, please...
Everything is usually 'set' within the first 100 to 200 miles, but
it's recommended that you 'break in' an engine for about 500 miles,
just to make sure... From what I've heard on the list, I think most
of us have switched to Mobil-1 ASAP. You might want to do an
"engine flush" with some 'throw-away' oil for a few hundred more
miles before you switch, however. This will get rid of the rest of
the metal particles that are in any new engine... When I switched,
I used an actual engine flush product (contains a thinner of some
kind), then some throw-away oil for a few hundred miles, then went
to Mobil-1.
Best,
Forrest
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 13 14:54:30 1999
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From: Kevin Clark <Kevin.Clark@hnz.co.nz>
To: Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: FYI: Dash Gauges
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:11:25 +1200
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Many of you have looked/purchased extra gauges for the
various modifications you have made. It has come to
my attention that the gauges on the Japanese GTO's may
differ slightly to those on the American 3000GT's, such
that you may be able to free up a pod-space, by using
a true Mitsi gauge rather than aftermarket ones.
The following is a picture of the dash of a GTO:
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/8443/GTO_Dash-tmp.gif
The gauges in the pods on the Japanese GTO's are as follows:
Pod 1/3: Oil Pressure Gauge
Pod 2/3: Combination Boost Gauge and Temperature Gauge
Pod 3/3: Digital clock (rather ugly at that!)
It is this middle gauge that may be of use to some people
that are wishing to free up a slot for another item, and
can probably be got from Mitsubishi or a local junk yard.
I have no idea as to the accuracy of the boost gauge, and
since most people are wanting to replace the existing boost
gauge with something a little more accurate this information
is probably useless. Still, it's something to keep in mind
for the future...
Please note that this was posted as information only, and
not intended to start up a discussion on the differences
of the GTO/3000GT (of which there are many) - these
differences are better discussed on the Starnet list or
directed personally at me.
Cheers,
Kevin Clark
'91 GTO-VR4 <-- few more pics on http://beam.to/GTO
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 13 15:22:21 1999
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Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:20:49 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
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To: Kevin Clark <Kevin.Clark@hnz.co.nz>
CC: Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: FYI: Dash Gauges
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> The following is a picture of the dash of a GTO:
> http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/8443/GTO_Dash-tmp.gif
>
> The gauges in the pods on the Japanese GTO's are as follows:
> Pod 1/3: Oil Pressure Gauge
> Pod 2/3: Combination Boost Gauge and Temperature Gauge
> Pod 3/3: Digital clock (rather ugly at that!)
This is the same gauge cluster as in the european one. There is a scan of the
prospectus of my car at
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/flyer12.html (large pic)
The accuracy of the gauge is good although it is slow in reaction.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
>
> It is this middle gauge that may be of use to some people
> that are wishing to free up a slot for another item, and
> can probably be got from Mitsubishi or a local junk yard.
>
> I have no idea as to the accuracy of the boost gauge, and
> since most people are wanting to replace the existing boost
> gauge with something a little more accurate this information
> is probably useless. Still, it's something to keep in mind
> for the future...
>
> Please note that this was posted as information only, and
> not intended to start up a discussion on the differences
> of the GTO/3000GT (of which there are many) - these
> differences are better discussed on the Starnet list or
> directed personally at me.
>
> Cheers,
> Kevin Clark
> '91 GTO-VR4 <-- few more pics on http://beam.to/GTO
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
--
-----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
K&N FIPK,Magnecor wires,Blitz DSBC/gauge/Dual Timer,Apexi AFC,HKS SBOV,
ATR DP/testpipe,Borla Cat-back,OZ Mito2 rims,Yoko AVS-Z1,braided brake lines
Bremsa brakes,u-Mevius Street Race pads
Check out: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/3000gt.html
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 13 16:41:59 1999
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Reply-To: <mdorsey@mindspring.com>
From: "Michael" <mdorsey@mindspring.com>
To: "'Team3S'" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Previous fuel cut problems
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:42:41 -0400
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Just to give you guys an update, on what I thought might have been fuel cut.
It was apparently the clutch, which several of you had guessed. Looks like
I got one of the defective RPS Carbon clutches. It has started slipping
quite badly now, when I apply any type of power. Thanks for all the input,
both public and private.
Michael
98 VR4
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 13 18:17:59 1999
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From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: More S-AVC-R Plumbing Questions
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:14:03 -0500
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Hi All-
Up front, I want to thank those of you who have responded with
really useful comentary regarding my preparation for installing
the AEPXi S-AVC-R. You have showed me that my interpretation
of the way the hardware works is correct. In spite of all the helpful
responses, I still have one perplexing point: The orifice in the OEM
"H" fitting impedes the flow from the pressure source ("Y-pipe")
when the OEM solenoid vents the "H" fitting, thus reducing the
pressure to the w.g. actuators, increasing (controlling) boost.
No one's response to my questions regarding the plumbing for
the S-AVC-R has mentioned an orifice in their plumbing. APEXi
has included an orifice in their supplied fittings, but their
suggested place for its installation would not have the desired
effect. You folks who have installed S-AVC-R controllers with
success, please let me know what you did! Many thanks!
Regards,
ptg
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 13 18:20:40 1999
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Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:39:02 -0400
From: William Lynn Larsen <wlarsen@ibm.net>
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To: Larry Rieders <vr4rieders@email.com>
CC: Kevin <Kevin@pacarsearch.com>,
Shawn and Sarah Cullen <spcullen@prodigy.net>,
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Question -- noise when turning off engine
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I had mentioned that since I put a K&N on my NT I hear a goose kind of a
sound when my car shuts down. I have heard it at no other time however.
It is definately an air induced noise and there is no mistaking it for
bad bearings in an idler pulley; a bad belt....I don't think so but it
is a wierd noise.
Regards,
Lynn
Larry Rieders wrote:
>
> I have heard the same noise, I believe it is the belt tension idler
> "pulley". It also makes a clicking noise at idle.
> Mine is a 93 VR4.
>
> ------Original Message------
> From: "Kevin" <Kevin@pacarsearch.com>
> To: Shawn and Sarah Cullen <spcullen@prodigy.net>,
> stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> Sent: September 11, 1999 2:58:13 AM GMT
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Question -- noise when turning off engine
>
> The noise you describe sounds like the honking goose Roger is researching.
> I think someone else with a NT noticed this sound after installing the K&N
> filter.
>
> Kevin
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 13 19:12:13 1999
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Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 03:03:46 -0400
From: "J. Stephen Gula" <loco3kgt@creepingdeath.com>
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To: Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
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does anyone have links or pictures or know the Gear Ratios and HP/Torqu
Curves for Non turbos with the DOHC engines? specifically a 95 base
3000GT but I can't imagine it's different between any yar non turbo
DOHC. Thanks.
--Steve "Loco3KGT" Gula
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 13 19:14:38 1999
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From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: "Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Question -- noise when turning off engine
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:12:41 -0700
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Hey Lynn;
Originally you didn't indicate "the squeek" was an air induced noise.
Posts sent in to help you with the problem, were directed at the more
mechanical end of things, especially pointing at pulleys as being a likely
culprit.
Thre "honking goose syndrome" was first noted by Jim Mathews a few
centuries ago, and it seems to be related to the BOV in "some" cars after
the K&N "system" is installed. I believe an after market BOV solves the
problem in some cases...but not all. {Check on makes} For unknown reasons,
this is a problem with some cars after K&N instalation, but not all. Roger,
another of our Admins (Jim is also) is currently trying to work out the
cause of this annoyance and will post on it when he solves it.
Best
Darc
>I had mentioned that since I put a K&N on my NT I hear a goose kind of a
>sound when my car shuts down. I have heard it at no other time however.
>It is definately an air induced noise and there is no mistaking it for
>bad bearings in an idler pulley; a bad belt....I don't think so but it
>is a wierd noise.
>
>Regards,
>Lynn
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 13 19:21:33 1999
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Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:18:18 -0500
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Electrical connector undo
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I need to disconnect an electrical plug. It's the one going into the
windshield wiper motor (I want to disconnect the wiper motor so I can use
the washer lever to activate my brake cooling system, but that's another
story).
I've examined this plug up one side and down the other.
It seems to have a catch that must be released.
I stuck a small screwdriver in there to no avail.
I've squeezed it from all sides, with no luck.
I've tried (gently) to pry the sucker apart, but I thought it was going to
break.
I am at a loss. Arrgghhh!
How do you get these furshlugginer electrical plugs apart?
All help will be greatly appreciated.
Rich/old poop/stopped by a plug
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 13 19:34:16 1999
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From: "Oskar" <swede@pclink.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>, "Merritt" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Electrical connector undo
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:28:25 -0500
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Generally there is a part on the male plug that needs to be depressed. This
uncouples it from the female plug. While depressed you can then slide the
two plugs apart. It's hard though, these things like to stay coupled...
Oskar
'95 R/T TT
----- Original Message -----
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 9:18 PM
Subject: Team3S: Electrical connector undo
> I need to disconnect an electrical plug. It's the one going into the
> windshield wiper motor (I want to disconnect the wiper motor so I can use
> the washer lever to activate my brake cooling system, but that's another
> story).
>
> I've examined this plug up one side and down the other.
> It seems to have a catch that must be released.
> I stuck a small screwdriver in there to no avail.
> I've squeezed it from all sides, with no luck.
> I've tried (gently) to pry the sucker apart, but I thought it was going to
> break.
> I am at a loss. Arrgghhh!
>
> How do you get these furshlugginer electrical plugs apart?
> All help will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Rich/old poop/stopped by a plug
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 00:16:49 1999
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Reply-To: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: More S-AVC-R Plumbing Questions
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:10:18 +0200
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>responses, I still have one perplexing point: The orifice in the OEM
>"H" fitting impedes the flow from the pressure source ("Y-pipe")
>when the OEM solenoid vents the "H" fitting, thus reducing the
>pressure to the w.g. actuators, increasing (controlling) boost.
No, there is no flow at all (ok, a little but negligible) as only pressure
counts. Therefore if the larger line leads into a smaller connector, this
dosn't do anything like reducing or increasing pressure.
>No one's response to my questions regarding the plumbing for
>the S-AVC-R has mentioned an orifice in their plumbing. APEXi
>has included an orifice in their supplied fittings, but their
>suggested place for its installation would not have the desired
>effect.
What effect are you speaking about ? Usually, there is no orivice needed as
this would cause a leak in the lines. AFAIK, there are three hoses that go
to the Apexi box, the inlet from the y-pipe, the outlet to the "H" type
connector and the boost sensing line from the manifold.
Hope this helps,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 04:56:40 1999
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From: "Bob Rand" <rtr@vnet.net>
To: "Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Evacuating
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:59:24 -0400
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Well folks, Talk with ya in a few days. I live in Charleston, SC and will
be heading out of Dodge as it looks like the hurricane will be making
landfall in my backyard.
Will be taking the Stealth out of harms way.
Bob
93 Stealth TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 07:02:10 1999
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From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: "Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Question -- noise when turning off engine
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:00:06 -0700
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It was just brought to my attention that Lynn's car is a non turbo. Has
anyone else with a non turbo experienced the Honking Goose syndrome?? If so,
then as Roger just pointed out to me, a BOV would not be the culprit. Any
others with NT's having this problem??
Darc
-----Original Message-----
From: Darcy Gunnlaugson <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Monday, September 13, 1999 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Question -- noise when turning off engine
>Hey Lynn;
>
> Originally you didn't indicate "the squeek" was an air induced noise.
>Posts sent in to help you with the problem, were directed at the more
>mechanical end of things, especially pointing at pulleys as being a likely
>culprit.
>
>Thre "honking goose syndrome" was first noted by Jim Mathews a few
>centuries ago, and it seems to be related to the BOV in "some" cars after
>the K&N "system" is installed. I believe an after market BOV solves the
>problem in some cases...but not all. {Check on makes} For unknown reasons,
>this is a problem with some cars after K&N instalation, but not all.
Roger,
>another of our Admins (Jim is also) is currently trying to work out the
>cause of this annoyance and will post on it when he solves it.
>
>Best
>
>Darc
>
>
>
>>I had mentioned that since I put a K&N on my NT I hear a goose kind of a
>>sound when my car shuts down. I have heard it at no other time however.
>>It is definately an air induced noise and there is no mistaking it for
>>bad bearings in an idler pulley; a bad belt....I don't think so but it
>>is a wierd noise.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Lynn
>
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 08:03:35 1999
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From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
To: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>,
"Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Question -- noise when turning off engine
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:02:25 -0700
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-----Original Message-----From: Darcy Gunnlaugson
<wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
>It was just brought to my attention that Lynn's car is a non turbo.
Has
>anyone else with a non turbo experienced the Honking Goose
syndrome?? If so,
>then as Roger just pointed out to me, a BOV would not be the
culprit. Any
>others with NT's having this problem??
I don't have what I'd call "Honking Goose syndrome", as I understand
it...
But the sound of the K&N on an NT is definitely different than with
the stock airbox. I'd characterize it in two parts: A slight, but
more noticeable "wooaaaaaaa" sound when you put the pedal down and
hit WOT (reminiscent of the old 4-bbl carbs of muscle cars), and a
similarly subtle sound when turning the car off, like
"ahhh-hisssss"...
This is quite normal-- these are 'non-turbo' (NT),
'normally-aspirated' (NA) engines without all the turbo plumbing in
the intake path, so sounds come out as easily as air goes in. The
less-restrictive K&N allows you to hear sounds coming OUT from the
throttle body more easily, just like it lets air IN more easily.
One of the reasons that so many of us replace the stock airbox with
the K&N FIPK is that the stock system has a smaller, and more
restrictive filter, which steals some horsepower to allow for a
quieter, "Stealth-ier" sound level. And I personally don't like
loud intake or exhaust systems, but I don't find this slight
increase in sound level to be objectionable at all, especially in
light of the substantial performance improvement.
One more note about "honking"... If for some reason the K&N (or
resonator removal) has been done incorrectly, with one of the intake
hose sections allowing a gap or opening (or the resonator hole is
left open), there can be a VERY noticeable sound, like the "honk"
that you get when blowing air across the mouth of a beer bottle, for
example. If that's what you're hearing, go check every section of
the intake path to make sure everything is mated correctly. Leaving
an unfiltered opening is not only noisy, it's potentially hazardous
to your engine, since it can easily 'vacuum' up some debris right in
through the throttle body...
Hope this helps a bit...
Forrest
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 09:24:00 1999
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From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
To: "'Team3S List'" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Question -- noise when turning off engine
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:23:41 -0700
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> But the sound of the K&N on an NT is definitely different than with
> the stock airbox. I'd characterize it in two parts:
<snip>
> and a similarly subtle sound when turning the car off, like
> "ahhh-hisssss"...
Yep, ditto here. I only notice it when I have the windows down and the
radio off when I kill the ignition. I can hear it much better in my garage
(1-car), where there are lots of smooth surfaces for the sound to bounce off
of.
I also hear a slight hiss when the engine is on (idling or otherwise) coming
from under the hood. I can only hear it from outside the car, and if the
hood is down, I have to listen very attentively. If the hood is up, I can
hear it best near the K&N cone and near the TB (?!?) I've checked and
double checked the connections around the intake plenum, TB, and intake
hoses. I can't find any leaks, so I'm guessing I'm just hearing the sound
from the K&N echoing around in the plenum...
--Erik
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 11:39:44 1999
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To: robby@swissonline.ch, Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: FYI: Dash Gauges
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Not to question you personally, but...
If our gauges are all very inaccurate how can yours actually be fairly
close?
Does it use different inputs, different scale???
Inquiring minds want to know.
"R.G." wrote:
>
> The accuracy of the gauge is good although it is slow in reaction.
>
> Roger
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 11:45:14 1999
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From: "Jeff" <spydervr4@home.com>
To: "Sirius" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
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Subject: Re: Team3S: FYI: Dash Gauges
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:38:55 -0500
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Actually from what I've seen the stock gauge is pretty accurate up to 6 or
7psi, but slow reacting as Roger said. I don't believe the Euro/Japanese
spec gauge will be at all helpful. It would have if the water temp/oil
pressure gauges were combined into one though. For an aftermarket
alternative see www.westach.com.
jeff
'95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
'90 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
----- Original Message -----
From: Todd Schmalzried <Q11981@email.mot.com>
To: <robby@swissonline.ch>; Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: FYI: Dash Gauges
> Not to question you personally, but...
> If our gauges are all very inaccurate how can yours actually be fairly
> close?
> Does it use different inputs, different scale???
> Inquiring minds want to know.
>
> "R.G." wrote:
> >
> > The accuracy of the gauge is good although it is slow in reaction.
> >
> > Roger
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 12:21:19 1999
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From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
To: Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Cc: jimejams@home.com
Subject: Team3S: FW: My car is making noises
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:20:45 -0700
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Folks...
I received this e-mail, not sure if this person is a Team 3S subscriber or
not. At any rate, I can't answer this question, so if any of you could offer
a opinion/suggestion, the address is below.
Looking forward...Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Jime Palacios [mailto:jimejams@home.com]
Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 3:21 PM
To: cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com
Cc: jimejams@home.com
Subject: My car is making noises
Hi Chris,
My name is Jime. I own a 92 Dodge Stealth. It has 90,000 miles on
it,
but these are the things I've already replaced within the last year and
a half: the internal rear axle, and relating misc. parts, the timing
belt, tensioner, water pump, battery, full valve job, and the clutch. I
think there may be more, I'm not positive. All I know is it costs a
fortune every time it breaks down. SO...I'm praying you can help save me
a bit by chance. The noise is coming either from the clutch belt pulley
or from under the DOHC cover. It sounds like something is rubbing
against a metal part. It is loud, continuous, and sounds dangerous
enough that I won't drive it, even to my local dealer. A mechanic down
the street looked at it and said I need a $900 air compressor. However,
the Air compressor light that should indicate this problem isn't on or
blinking and my AC works almost TOO well, It freezes me out. HELP! Could
you possibly know of anything else it could be?
Totally Lost,
Ms. Jime Palacios
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 12:48:36 1999
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From: "Curt Gendron" <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: FYI: Dash Gauges
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:48:02 CDT
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The best solution is to just replace the three middle gauges with real
gauges, like Autometer. But the hard part comes because the whole dash has
to come off to do it. Check out Oskar's middle gauges in this picture:
http://mn3s.org/april99/osk_inside.jpg
By the way, I can never get my stock boost gauge to read the same as my
Autometer boost gauge. The stock gauge is strictly for decoration. ;)
later,
Curt
http://www.mn3s.org
>From: "Jeff" <spydervr4@home.com>
>To: "Sirius" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
>Subject: Re: Team3S: FYI: Dash Gauges
>Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:38:55 -0500
>
>Actually from what I've seen the stock gauge is pretty accurate up to 6 or
>7psi, but slow reacting as Roger said. I don't believe the Euro/Japanese
>spec gauge will be at all helpful. It would have if the water temp/oil
>pressure gauges were combined into one though. For an aftermarket
>alternative see www.westach.com.
>
>jeff
>'95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
>'90 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Todd Schmalzried <Q11981@email.mot.com>
>To: <robby@swissonline.ch>; Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 12:19 PM
>Subject: Re: Team3S: FYI: Dash Gauges
>
>
> > Not to question you personally, but...
> > If our gauges are all very inaccurate how can yours actually be fairly
> > close?
> > Does it use different inputs, different scale???
> > Inquiring minds want to know.
> >
> > "R.G." wrote:
> > >
> > > The accuracy of the gauge is good although it is slow in reaction.
> > >
> > > Roger
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 12:50:11 1999
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Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:48:00 -0500
From: Gabriel Estrada <typhoonzz@earthlink.net>
Subject: Team3S: WaterPump and Timing Chain
To: Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
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I am going to put my VR-4 in our shop tomorrow and they are going to replace
the water pump. At least I assume that is what is spitting coolant from
under the hood. That will be covered by my extended warranty. My question
is, how difficult is it to change the timing belt while the water pump is
out. I do not have service manuals, so I don't know where the two are in
relationship to each other. My plan is to give the mechanic a bill to
replace the timing chain while he is under there. But I need to know how
much work is involved in this type of work. Anyone that has done this
before please let me know. I figure since the chain is only $130 and maybe
another $100 for the mechanic, I assume this is a fair price to replace the
chain, but I want to know b4 hand how much extra work is involved.
Thanks in advance
Gabe Estrada
94 Pearl Yellow VR-4
92 GMC Typhoon
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 12:59:09 1999
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Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:50:42 -0400
From: William Lynn Larsen <wlarsen@ibm.net>
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To: "'Team3S List'" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Question -- noise when turning off engine
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Bob, yes you definately have the sound down. When I mentioned the
noise, I was not complaining about it just wanted to make sure it was
"normal." I would not go back to the stock airbox for anything! I do
apologize for any confusion that I may have caused for those who are
trying to diagnose exactly what is causing the "goose honk" in the twin
turbo cars. But, getting it out that the noise I described is a nominal
condition for the normally aspirated cars with aftermarket intakes that
allow you to hear more engine sounds is definately of value.
Regards,
Lynn
"Gross, Erik" wrote:
>
> > But the sound of the K&N on an NT is definitely different than with
> > the stock airbox. I'd characterize it in two parts:
> <snip>
> > and a similarly subtle sound when turning the car off, like
> > "ahhh-hisssss"...
>
> Yep, ditto here. I only notice it when I have the windows down and the
> radio off when I kill the ignition. I can hear it much better in my garage
> (1-car), where there are lots of smooth surfaces for the sound to bounce off
> of.
> <snip>
> --Erik
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 13:09:18 1999
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From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
To: "Gabriel Estrada" <typhoonzz@earthlink.net>,
"Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: WaterPump and Timing Chain
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:11:37 -0500
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Actually you have to remove the belt to remove the Waterpump.
It is a belt on your car, not a chain.
The belt retails for around 150.00. and another 100.00 is more than fair to
replace the belt. I would look into changing the tensioners also.
Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Gabriel Estrada
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 2:48 PM
To: Team3S
Subject: Team3S: WaterPump and Timing Chain
I am going to put my VR-4 in our shop tomorrow and they are going to replace
the water pump. At least I assume that is what is spitting coolant from
under the hood. That will be covered by my extended warranty. My question
is, how difficult is it to change the timing belt while the water pump is
out. I do not have service manuals, so I don't know where the two are in
relationship to each other. My plan is to give the mechanic a bill to
replace the timing chain while he is under there. But I need to know how
much work is involved in this type of work. Anyone that has done this
before please let me know. I figure since the chain is only $130 and maybe
another $100 for the mechanic, I assume this is a fair price to replace the
chain, but I want to know b4 hand how much extra work is involved.
Thanks in advance
Gabe Estrada
94 Pearl Yellow VR-4
92 GMC Typhoon
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 13:22:35 1999
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Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:23:43 -0800
From: Rich <rleroy@pacifier.com>
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To: Brad Bedell <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
CC: Gabriel Estrada <typhoonzz@earthlink.net>,
Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: WaterPump and Timing Chain
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Gabriel:
As Brad points out, the belt *must* be removed to get
to the water pump, so giving the mechanic $100 to
swap them out is overpaying ... better to use a part
of that $100 you were going to spend and pop for the
belt tensioner and give both parts to the mechanic
before he (she?) starts. There is *ZERO* extra work
involved for the belt, and *maybe* (and I'm being
generous here) 5 minutes to swap a new tensioner for
the old one - just a couple bolts.
Hope this helps.
Rich
Did his own 60k, but not as experienced as Brad ;-)
----------------------------------------------------
Brad Bedell wrote:
>
> Actually you have to remove the belt to remove the Waterpump.
>
> It is a belt on your car, not a chain.
> The belt retails for around 150.00. and another 100.00 is more than fair to
> replace the belt. I would look into changing the tensioners also.
>
> Brad
> Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
> E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> [mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Gabriel Estrada
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 2:48 PM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: Team3S: WaterPump and Timing Chain
>
> I am going to put my VR-4 in our shop tomorrow and they are going to replace
> the water pump. At least I assume that is what is spitting coolant from
> under the hood. That will be covered by my extended warranty. My question
> is, how difficult is it to change the timing belt while the water pump is
> out. I do not have service manuals, so I don't know where the two are in
> relationship to each other. My plan is to give the mechanic a bill to
> replace the timing chain while he is under there. But I need to know how
> much work is involved in this type of work. Anyone that has done this
> before please let me know. I figure since the chain is only $130 and maybe
> another $100 for the mechanic, I assume this is a fair price to replace the
> chain, but I want to know b4 hand how much extra work is involved.
> Thanks in advance
> Gabe Estrada
> 94 Pearl Yellow VR-4
> 92 GMC Typhoon
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
--
"If you dig it, do it.
If you really dig it, do it twice"
- Jim Croce (1943-1973)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 13:44:09 1999
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From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
To: <jimejams@home.com>, "Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: My car is making noises
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:43:34 -0700
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-----Original Message-----From: Chris Winkley
<cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
>I received this e-mail, not sure if this person is a Team 3S
subscriber or
>not. At any rate, I can't answer this question, so if any of you
could offer
>a opinion/suggestion, the address is below.
>From: Jime Palacios [mailto:jimejams@home.com]
>Subject: My car is making noises
Yes indeed, Ms. Palacios is a (fairly new) subscriber... Perhaps
our instructions were not clear enough... So if any of you are not
sure what to do-- To ask a question of the Team3S list (all of us),
please send email to:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Or to respond to her question, please click "Reply to All" (and edit
out all this stuff above). Jime Palacios' full message is below:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hi Chris,
My name is Jime. I own a 92 Dodge Stealth. It has 90,000 miles on
it,
but these are the things I've already replaced within the last year
and
a half: the internal rear axle, and relating misc. parts, the timing
belt, tensioner, water pump, battery, full valve job, and the
clutch. I
think there may be more, I'm not positive. All I know is it costs a
fortune every time it breaks down. SO...I'm praying you can help
save me
a bit by chance. The noise is coming either from the clutch belt
pulley
or from under the DOHC cover. It sounds like something is rubbing
against a metal part. It is loud, continuous, and sounds dangerous
enough that I won't drive it, even to my local dealer. A mechanic
down
the street looked at it and said I need a $900 air compressor.
However,
the Air compressor light that should indicate this problem isn't on
or
blinking and my AC works almost TOO well, It freezes me out. HELP!
Could
you possibly know of anything else it could be?
Totally Lost,
Ms. Jime Palacios
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 13:46:28 1999
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To: Gabriel Estrada <typhoonzz@earthlink.net>,
Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: WaterPump and Timing Chain
In-Reply-To: <018401befeea$0d97b100$bc00c1cf@25438>
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At 02:48 PM 9/14/99 -0500, you wrote:
>I am going to put my VR-4 in our shop tomorrow and they are going to replace
>the water pump. At least I assume that is what is spitting coolant from
>under the hood. That will be covered by my extended warranty. My question
>is, how difficult is it to change the timing belt while the water pump is
>out.
As I understand it, you have to remove the timing belt to get to the water
pump, so it should not cost anything more. When my water pump started
spitting, it was covered under my warranty, like yours.
I suggested to the Mitsu dealer that since the timing belt had been exposed
to coolant, it should also be replaced under the warranty because coolant
causes the belt to degrade. They agreed and did the whole job, including
replacing the tension adjusters. Total price was $720, but it only cost me
$100 under my warranty.
So I suggest you DEMAND (nicely, of course) that they replace the timing
belt under warranty.
I'm sure you'll hear similar advice from others on the list.
Rich/old poop/94 VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 15:21:46 1999
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From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
To: "Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: WaterPump and Timing Chain
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:22:59 -0500
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I'll disagree on the "extra work"
You can replace the timing belt without removing the motor mount and
removing the alternator. (30mins) However an antifreeze soaked belt is
asking for new valves and heads. Have the belt replaced no matter what the
cost.
Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Rich
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 3:24 PM
To: Brad Bedell
Cc: Gabriel Estrada; Team3S
Subject: Re: Team3S: WaterPump and Timing Chain
Gabriel:
As Brad points out, the belt *must* be removed to get
to the water pump, so giving the mechanic $100 to
swap them out is overpaying ... better to use a part
of that $100 you were going to spend and pop for the
belt tensioner and give both parts to the mechanic
before he (she?) starts. There is *ZERO* extra work
involved for the belt, and *maybe* (and I'm being
generous here) 5 minutes to swap a new tensioner for
the old one - just a couple bolts.
Hope this helps.
Rich
Did his own 60k, but not as experienced as Brad ;-)
----------------------------------------------------
Brad Bedell wrote:
>
> Actually you have to remove the belt to remove the Waterpump.
>
> It is a belt on your car, not a chain.
> The belt retails for around 150.00. and another 100.00 is more than fair
to
> replace the belt. I would look into changing the tensioners also.
>
> Brad
> Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
> E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> [mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Gabriel Estrada
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 2:48 PM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: Team3S: WaterPump and Timing Chain
>
> I am going to put my VR-4 in our shop tomorrow and they are going to
replace
> the water pump. At least I assume that is what is spitting coolant from
> under the hood. That will be covered by my extended warranty. My
question
> is, how difficult is it to change the timing belt while the water pump is
> out. I do not have service manuals, so I don't know where the two are in
> relationship to each other. My plan is to give the mechanic a bill to
> replace the timing chain while he is under there. But I need to know how
> much work is involved in this type of work. Anyone that has done this
> before please let me know. I figure since the chain is only $130 and
maybe
> another $100 for the mechanic, I assume this is a fair price to replace
the
> chain, but I want to know b4 hand how much extra work is involved.
> Thanks in advance
> Gabe Estrada
> 94 Pearl Yellow VR-4
> 92 GMC Typhoon
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
--
"If you dig it, do it.
If you really dig it, do it twice"
- Jim Croce (1943-1973)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 16:39:35 1999
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Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:39:04 EDT
Subject: Team3S: Changing the timing belt and water pump
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
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I have to disagree with Brad. You do have to remove the motor mount and the
alternator and bracket to change the timing belt. If you don't, you'll be
adding several additional hours to the job as you try to figure out how to
maneuver the belt around these parts and properly adjust the timing belt
tensioner. Although it does take a few additional minutes to remove these
parts, the time it will save in the long run makes it worth it. IN fact, I'm
not even sure you can replace the timing belt without removing the motor
mount because If I remember correctly, you cannot get the timing belt around
it. IMO, anyway.
Joe.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 16:51:17 1999
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From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Changing the timing belt and water pump
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:51:56 -0500
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You are correct, I re-read what I wrote.. It's the water pump that you can
replace without the belt.
You are correct in saying that the belt cannot be removed without the motor
mount.
Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of TrboDrvr@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 6:39 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Changing the timing belt and water pump
I have to disagree with Brad. You do have to remove the motor mount and the
alternator and bracket to change the timing belt. If you don't, you'll be
adding several additional hours to the job as you try to figure out how to
maneuver the belt around these parts and properly adjust the timing belt
tensioner. Although it does take a few additional minutes to remove these
parts, the time it will save in the long run makes it worth it. IN fact,
I'm
not even sure you can replace the timing belt without removing the motor
mount because If I remember correctly, you cannot get the timing belt around
it. IMO, anyway.
Joe.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 17:02:38 1999
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Cc: jimejams@home.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: My car is making noises
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:43:34 PDT."
<03fc01befef1$b909e740$b3e586cd@sch>
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:02:34 -0600
From: Dave Monarchi <monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk
Jime,
I had a very similar sounding problem which was originally diagnosed
the same. Since I didn't want to buy a compressor, I had my mechanic
determine if there was any way to bypass/remove it and use a shorter
belt. Upon closer inspection, he realized it was merely a loose
mounting bracket. Problem fixed for 1/2 hour labor. Hopefully
you'll have the same good luck.
Dave
currently sans 3 or S.. :(
+> -----Original Message-----From: Chris Winkley
+> <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
+> >I received this e-mail, not sure if this person is a Team 3S
+> subscriber or
+> >not. At any rate, I can't answer this question, so if any of you
+> could offer
+> >a opinion/suggestion, the address is below.
+> >From: Jime Palacios [mailto:jimejams@home.com]
+> >Subject: My car is making noises
+>
+> Yes indeed, Ms. Palacios is a (fairly new) subscriber... Perhaps
+> our instructions were not clear enough... So if any of you are not
+> sure what to do-- To ask a question of the Team3S list (all of us),
+> please send email to:
+> stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
+> Or to respond to her question, please click "Reply to All" (and edit
+> out all this stuff above). Jime Palacios' full message is below:
+> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
+>
+> Hi Chris,
+> My name is Jime. I own a 92 Dodge Stealth. It has 90,000 miles on
+> it,
+> but these are the things I've already replaced within the last year
+> and
+> a half: the internal rear axle, and relating misc. parts, the timing
+> belt, tensioner, water pump, battery, full valve job, and the
+> clutch. I
+> think there may be more, I'm not positive. All I know is it costs a
+> fortune every time it breaks down. SO...I'm praying you can help
+> save me
+> a bit by chance. The noise is coming either from the clutch belt
+> pulley
+> or from under the DOHC cover. It sounds like something is rubbing
+> against a metal part. It is loud, continuous, and sounds dangerous
+> enough that I won't drive it, even to my local dealer. A mechanic
+> down
+> the street looked at it and said I need a $900 air compressor.
+> However,
+> the Air compressor light that should indicate this problem isn't on
+> or
+> blinking and my AC works almost TOO well, It freezes me out. HELP!
+> Could
+> you possibly know of anything else it could be?
+>
+> Totally Lost,
+>
+> Ms. Jime Palacios
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 17:47:53 1999
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From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
To: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
Cc: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: More S-AVC-R Plumbing Questions
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:43:49 -0500
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>The orifice in the OEM
>>"H" fitting impedes the flow from the pressure source ("Y-pipe")
>The H fitting orifice which connects (via 1/8 hose) to to the Y
>ipple,( this is stock setup) should now be defunct. Instead the orifice at
>the H fiting should be capped and the 1/8 line to the Y pipe nipple should
>be removed. The new line from SAVC-R should now go to the Y-pipe nipple and
>you'll have to use a downsize coupling installed in the line to bring it
>down to the proper hose (1/8) size for the nipple to accomodate the hose.
>>when the OEM solenoid vents the "H" fitting, thus reducing the
>>pressure to the w.g. actuators, increasing (controlling) boost.
>>No one's response to my questions regarding the plumbing for
>>the S-AVC-R has mentioned an orifice in their plumbing.
I assume you have a nipple at the Y-pipe? pipe where it starts to bend
Darc-
Yup; I have the nipple on the Y-pipe that supplies pressure to the H
fitting. It supplies pressure to an ORIFICE in the H fitting, which resists
flow when the OEM solenoid vents the H fitting. This obviously
reduces the pressure to the w.g. actuators, and allows boost to
increase. My question is, why is this function not required in the
APEXi application? The analogy is the same as in the plumbing
for a bathroom: If your water lines are sized properly, the person
using the shower won't get scaulded when someone flushes the
toilet. If the lines are not properly sized (equivalent to an orifice)
then flushing the toilet will reduce the cold water flow/pressure
to the shower.
Perhaps the reason the APEXi boost controller works without
an orifice in the pressure supply path is that when the solenoid vents
through the NC port, the flow capacity is significantly higher than
that of the pressure supply, and the pressure to the w.g. actuators
drops enough to allow the them to control boost. This
of course, would depend on the size of the hoses (and fittings) used.
I'm sure everyone on this list is tired of my pursuing this topic, so
I'll not post again regarding the plumbing for the S-AVC-R. I do
hope; however, someone who understands my concern will respond.
I owe lots of thanks to Ken M., R.G., Darc, et.al. for all the useful
information provided.
Thanks,
ptg
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 18:21:52 1999
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From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
To: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>, <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: More S-AVC-R Plumbing Questions
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:17:53 -0500
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>>responses, I still have one perplexing point: The orifice in the OEM
>>"H" fitting impedes the flow from the pressure source ("Y-pipe")
>>when the OEM solenoid vents the "H" fitting, thus reducing the
>>pressure to the w.g. actuators, increasing (controlling) boost.
>
>No, there is no flow at all (ok, a little but negligible) as only pressure
>counts. Therefore if the larger line leads into a smaller connector, this
>dosn't do anything like reducing or increasing pressure.
R.G.-
Thanks for your response.
The only thing that can affect pressure is a change in flow. If there's
no flow in a closed system, then there is no change in pressure.
Regards,
ptg
>>No one's response to my questions regarding the plumbing for
>>the S-AVC-R has mentioned an orifice in their plumbing. APEXi
>>has included an orifice in their supplied fittings, but their
>>suggested place for its installation would not have the desired
>>effect.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 21:54:18 1999
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From: "Oskar" <swede@pclink.com>
To: "Team 3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Downpipe
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:48:29 -0500
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I know of three different DPs: ATR, Alamo, Stillen.Are there any others?
I am choosing between the Alamo and the ATR. Is the Alamo $140 better than
the ATR?
I'm leaning towards the ATR but I understand that it does not bolt up to
anything other than ATR cat or test pipe.
I am currently running with a test pipe that has the same bolt pattern/angle
as the stock cat. Can I still go with the ATR and what do I need to do to
make it fit? Can I cut, rotate and weld the flange that comes on the ATR to
make it fit? Is this something the average muffler shop can handle and be
expected to do a good job at?
Thanks,
Oskar
'95 R/T TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 21:58:49 1999
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From: "Oskar" <swede@pclink.com>
To: "Team 3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: ATR Super Blue dot 4
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:52:51 -0500
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I paid $15 for the last bottle I purchased from a vendor that is no longer
in the mail order business. Matt at Accelerated wants $24. Does anyone
know where to get it for less?
Thanks,
Oskar
'95 R/T TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 22:04:20 1999
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From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
To: "Team 3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Downpipe
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:06:08 -0500
Message-ID: <LNBBICBDKNDOJAHLDNDDEEIGEKAA.bbedell@austin.rr.com>
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I have the ATR, and have bolted it up to 4 different cars.. Each fit every
time.
The 94+ cars seemed to have changed the angle of the pre-cat, don't know
about it.
Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Oskar
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 11:48 PM
To: Team 3S
Subject: Team3S: Downpipe
I know of three different DPs: ATR, Alamo, Stillen.Are there any others?
I am choosing between the Alamo and the ATR. Is the Alamo $140 better than
the ATR?
I'm leaning towards the ATR but I understand that it does not bolt up to
anything other than ATR cat or test pipe.
I am currently running with a test pipe that has the same bolt pattern/angle
as the stock cat. Can I still go with the ATR and what do I need to do to
make it fit? Can I cut, rotate and weld the flange that comes on the ATR to
make it fit? Is this something the average muffler shop can handle and be
expected to do a good job at?
Thanks,
Oskar
'95 R/T TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 22:06:41 1999
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From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
To: "Team 3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ATR Super Blue dot 4
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:08:52 -0500
Message-ID: <LNBBICBDKNDOJAHLDNDDEEIHEKAA.bbedell@austin.rr.com>
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Any of the Porsche mail order catalogs' will handle the ATR products.
I generally pick mine up from the local performance shop for ~15.00 qt.
Reigning Performance
7437 Burnet Rd
Austin TX, 78757
512-454-4600
They might take a couple of days, but they usually have the fluid in stock.
Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Oskar
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 11:53 PM
To: Team 3S
Subject: Team3S: ATR Super Blue dot 4
I paid $15 for the last bottle I purchased from a vendor that is no longer
in the mail order business. Matt at Accelerated wants $24. Does anyone
know where to get it for less?
Thanks,
Oskar
'95 R/T TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 14 23:14:14 1999
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Message-ID: <006701beff40$83d162c0$f4320418@grlnd1.tx.home.com>
From: "Jeff" <spydervr4@home.com>
To: "Sirius" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
References: <00df01beff35$8ed006a0$d7020bce@logikit>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Downpipe
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 01:06:56 -0500
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The ATR is a better deal, EXCEPT that it doesn't have a flex section like
the Alamo. This isn't necessarily significant, but you really should have
one to prevent broken exhaust hangers and extra noise.
jeff
'95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
'90 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
----- Original Message -----
From: Oskar <swede@pclink.com>
To: Team 3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 11:48 PM
Subject: Team3S: Downpipe
> I know of three different DPs: ATR, Alamo, Stillen.Are there any others?
>
> I am choosing between the Alamo and the ATR. Is the Alamo $140 better
than
> the ATR?
>
> I'm leaning towards the ATR but I understand that it does not bolt up to
> anything other than ATR cat or test pipe.
>
> I am currently running with a test pipe that has the same bolt
pattern/angle
> as the stock cat. Can I still go with the ATR and what do I need to do to
> make it fit? Can I cut, rotate and weld the flange that comes on the ATR
to
> make it fit? Is this something the average muffler shop can handle and be
> expected to do a good job at?
>
> Thanks,
> Oskar
> '95 R/T TT
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 15 02:05:55 1999
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From: "Nav Moondi" <moondin@megahits.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: West Coast Gathering Updates
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 02:05:57 -0700
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Note: If you're not a 3S Owner on the West Coast, please ignore.
*** 1 1/2 Weeks left!! The countdown begins folks! ***
[Hotels] : If you haven't booked a hotel, I suggest doing so SOON! The best
one going right now
(and where I have a room) is the Monterey EconoLodge (831-372-5851) at
$100-$110/night. Prices
for other places are *much* higher!. If you would like to share your room,
or like to find someone
to share with (worst case scenario, bring a sleeping bag and you can crash
in mine or someone elses),
please let me know. I can take 1 or 2 extra in my room.
[Awards] : I'm gonna pick up the awards later on this week. If anyone would
like to donate door prizes, please
let me know. Same for any sponsors.
[Misc] : I've made the dinner reservations at The Mucky Duck. We're all set
for that, and they're definately looking
forward to seeing us there! Park permits are all set. Caravan info for the
LA trip up is all set and posted (SF
people, you still have to pick something!).
There is another car show going on that weekend (Cherry Jubilee). I'm going
to try tomorrow to contact them
and perhaps we can have a special "ride-through" in their event, or some
sort of unique display for them. Maybe
even be part of a parade! I've put in a call to City Hall about that.
[Laguna Sec] : Doesn't look like we'll get any track time this year, due to
prior engagements they have. But we may
stop by and see about getting some time or special arrangements for us for
later this year, or next year.
[Cruises in Monterey] : Some you have suggested various places to cruise in
Monterey along the coast and pier. Thanks.
Please if you can, bring directions on a paper we can quickly photocopy for
our members, in case 1 or 2 get lost!
[Contact #'s] : Next week, I'll post a pager/cell # on the site you can
call in case you get lost to/from the gathering.
[Radio] : I'm going to call tomorrow to a few radio stations in the area, to
announce the gathering and the site to
people in the area. We may get some curious spectators!
-= nav =-
West Coast Gathering Site: http://www.goline.com/mmercy/nav/wcg.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 15 04:58:02 1999
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From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
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To: Sirius 3000GT Mail List <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Downpipe fit
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The 91-93 vs. 94+front precats are different flange bolt orientation on the
distal end; and the 94 precat is SLIGHTLY shorter, also. You can
not bolt one in place of the other, I tried. I would definitely buy the
specific year fit downpipe from the outset.
Jack Tertadian
Brad Bedell wrote:
> I have ATR, and have bolted it to 4 different cars. Each fit every time.
> The 94+ cars seemed to have changed angle of pre-cat, don't know.
> --------
> three different DPs: ATR, Alamo, Stillen.
> Choosing between Alamo/ATR. Is Alamo $140 better than ATR?
> ATR: I understand it doesn't bolt up to
> anything other than ATR cat/test pipe.
> with the ATR what do I need to do to
> make it fit? Can I cut, rotate, weld flange on ATR to make it fit?
> Oskar
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 15 04:59:03 1999
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Oops, I think it is the 91-93 front precat that is shorter, sorry.
JT
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 15 07:35:54 1999
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Downpipe
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I have the Alamo downpipe on my 91 TT. The pipe took me about 15 minutes to
install. I don't know about anyone else on the list, but if I can do ANY
exhaust job in 15 minutes without having to modify anything, it's worth the
extra $140. So if the ATR is not a direct bolt on, then I'd definitely go
with the Alamo. PLus, the Alamo is a very good product. I'd recommend it.
Joe 91 TT
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 15 07:41:51 1999
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From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: More S-AVC-R Plumbing Questions
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:39:54 -0700
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Paul;
If you are still concerned about the SAVC-R and it's plumbing features,
particulalry the question of pressure (with the loss of the the H to Y-pipe
connection), you can always email APEXI at their website and query them, or
phone. They answer email but I found it was rathr a slow response when I
queried them. I found the advice of Barry King much more helpful at that
juncture, and in keeping with that tradition try to help the next in line.
Best
Darc
-
>Thanks for your response.
>The only thing that can affect pressure is a change in flow. If there's
>no flow in a closed system, then there is no change in pressure.
>
>Regards,
>ptg
>
>>>No one's response to my questions regarding the plumbing for
>>>the S-AVC-R has mentioned an orifice in their plumbing. APEXi
>>>has included an orifice in their supplied fittings, but their
>>>suggested place for its installation would not have the desired
>>>effect.
>
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 15 08:04:39 1999
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From: "Dg B" <dbretton@hotmail.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Suspension shops in NE area?
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:04:17 EDT
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Hi all, (this'll be short and sweet)
Anyone here know of any good suspension shops in the NE area?
Thanks in advance!
Regards,
Dennis
______________________________________________________
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 15 10:04:44 1999
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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:04:39 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: More S-AVC-R Plumbing Questions
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> >No one's response to my questions regarding the plumbing for
> >the S-AVC-R has mentioned an orifice in their plumbing. APEXi
> >has included an orifice in their supplied fittings, but their
> >suggested place for its installation would not have the desired
> >effect.
>
> What effect are you speaking about ? Usually, there is no orivice needed as
> this would cause a leak in the lines. AFAIK, there are three hoses that go
> to the Apexi box, the inlet from the y-pipe, the outlet to the "H" type
> connector and the boost sensing line from the manifold.
I assume by "Apexi box" you mean the solenoid. Actually, there are only two
hoses required: 1 from the y-pipe and 1 to the wastegate actuator connector (H
or Tee). The Apexi solenoid just vents to atmosphere.
The pressure sensor requires a separate hose to the plenum OR you can tap into a
line pressurized by the plenum.
--
Drive faster, it is later than you think!
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 15 10:11:26 1999
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From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
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To: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
CC: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: More S-AVC-R Plumbing Questions
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Hi Paul,
Sorry I couldn't reply yesterday. I was sooo busy meeting 6 fellow 3SI owners
for lunch!
I was unaware there even was an orifice in the H connector. I just replaced the
stock H connector with a supplied Tee. Boost hold & control performance seems
perfect to me with the tee so I don't think you need to worry about it. Since
the Apexi solenoid cycles at a very rapid rate, my guess is that they/we want no
restrictions thus allowing for the quickest pressure buildup & release in the
actuator lines.
The Apexi kit did contain a small filter which the instructions indicate should
be inline with the pressure sensor. I assume the filter prevents the sensor
from getting gunked up by any oil that blows by the turbos.
Hope this helps,
Ken
> Hi All-
> Up front, I want to thank those of you who have responded with
> really useful comentary regarding my preparation for installing
> the AEPXi S-AVC-R. You have showed me that my interpretation
> of the way the hardware works is correct. In spite of all the helpful
> responses, I still have one perplexing point: The orifice in the OEM
> "H" fitting impedes the flow from the pressure source ("Y-pipe")
> when the OEM solenoid vents the "H" fitting, thus reducing the
> pressure to the w.g. actuators, increasing (controlling) boost.
> No one's response to my questions regarding the plumbing for
> the S-AVC-R has mentioned an orifice in their plumbing. APEXi
> has included an orifice in their supplied fittings, but their
> suggested place for its installation would not have the desired
> effect. You folks who have installed S-AVC-R controllers with
> success, please let me know what you did! Many thanks!
--
Drive faster, it is later than you think!
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 15 10:41:07 1999
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From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
To: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
Cc: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: More S-AVC-R Plumbing Questions
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:35:50 -0500
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Darc-
My reason for posting on the list (as well as to you) is to get
my question to the maximum number of people who might be
able to help. If this is inappropriate "net etiquette," please let
me know. I'm doing it again now, to correct some erroneous
info I posted previously, regarding the orifice in the S-AVC-R
system. To wit:
I mistakenly thought the purpose of the APEXi orifice was the
same as the one in the OEM system which it is not. The APEXi
does not require an orifice to impede the supply flow,
because it turns the supply off. How I got so far off track,
I can only blame on my having too little sleep or something.
The APEXi orifice does go in the NC port as stated in the
instruction book. Having no orifice in ths port would result
in the waste gates snapping shut, possibly resulting in
boost spiking. I FINALLY understand how the system
works! Thanks to you and all who responded on this topic.
Regards,
ptg
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 15 10:57:04 1999
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From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
To: "Ken Middaugh" <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Cc: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: More S-AVC-R Plumbing Questions
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:52:30 -0500
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Ken-
Please note my post of a few minutes ago to Darc and
everyone on this subject. My S-AVC-R kit doesn't have
a filter in it. Maybe you have a later model than mine.
I bought it well over a year ago, and wanted to let the
factory warranty run out before installing it. It does have
the orifice which I speak of in the previous post.
Regards,
ptg
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 15 11:32:40 1999
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Subject: Re: Team3S: More S-AVC-R Plumbing Questions
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Paul,
There is NO unidirectional FLOW through the wastegate actuator line.
Remember the flow is seen in the whole system and the turbos who are forcing
air in. This results in air flow and due to the engines resistance boost
rises, i.e. air is getting compressed. This compressed air goes into any
edge and curve and ... nipple attached to anything that is under boost. When
I say go it is true that the air is pressed into the hosing of the wastegate
system that pushes the small pistons in the wastegate actuators.
If the throttle is closed and boost released, the pressured air goes back to
the y-pipe. But this flow is very, very small (calculate the lenght and
diameter of every part and compare this to the whole system .. it's
negligible) and therefore you can only say pressure is built up in the hoses
as it is in the y-pipe.
The orifice you've seen is ONLY a reducement type connector to feed the
smaller hoses. This causes absolutely nothing to the pressure in the system.
Don't worry about this and ignore it. It does nothing bad nor good, really !
For the Apexi filter, Ken is absolutely right and I highly recommend this
filter to be used. As I had a lot of oil in the intake last year, I opened
the Solenoid Box and found everything soaked by oil. It took me a long time
to clean it.
Finally, don't care about any orifice as the pressure is that low and there
is no real flow the stuff will not do anything.
Happy boosting,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
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From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
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> I mistakenly thought the purpose of the APEXi orifice was the
> same as the one in the OEM system which it is not. The APEXi
> does not require an orifice to impede the supply flow,
> because it turns the supply off. How I got so far off track,
> I can only blame on my having too little sleep or something.
> The APEXi orifice does go in the NC port as stated in the
> instruction book. Having no orifice in ths port would result
> in the waste gates snapping shut, possibly resulting in
> boost spiking. I FINALLY understand how the system
> works! Thanks to you and all who responded on this topic.
> Regards,
> ptg
>
Hi Paul,
I looked at the Apexi Web site since they still have the documentation posted
for the earlier SAVC-R like yours (yes, mine is the newest and is a little
different). The plumbing looks pretty simple & straight forward.
Although the Apexi orifice goes in the NC port, both orifices appear to perform
the same function -- to restrict the flow of air vented from the wastegates
(while boosting). The stock setup restricts it on the supply line, the Apexi
setup restricts it on the solenoid "exhaust" port as air is vented to the
atmosphere. Don't really know the advantage of the orifice though since it
doesn't come with the new kit and otherwise the plumbing is identical to my new
one. Perhaps the orifice causes a slower pressure transition providing a
smoother response.
Anyway, It looks like you have a pretty good handle on things. When are you
going to install it?
Best,
Ken
--
Drive faster, it is later than you think!
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 15 12:45:20 1999
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From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: "Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: SAVC-R
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:43:08 -0700
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Paul;
To summarize the plumbing:
1)The Y-pipe line now runs to the new solenoid NO (NC) connection.
2)The former line from the y-pipe to the H connection is removed and capped
at the H connection--no capping required if H is replaced by a T connection.
3) The sensor line is tapped into the short small line at the back of the
plenum
4) Old solenoid lines are removed and both capped at the old solenoid.
5) COM line from new solenoid is plumbed into H connection (open nipple on
H connection from the old solenoid line)--still applies if H is replaced by
T connection.
6) Rear turbo nipple (line formerly to old solenoid) is capped.
7) Downsize adapters are used in-line to bring Apexi hoses down to stock
size
hose to fit the existing nipples. Clamps used whenever possible.
8) Filter installed in sensor line if desired.
9) Insure hoses have no kinks and are as short as possible, route and
zip-tie them
neatly to existing hoses, and use vaccum caps that are commercially
available.
This is what you should have. It's what I have and what just about everybody
I know has, who has a BC. Plumbing is pretty standard on all makes of BC's.
Electronics may
differ, but I suspect even these will splice into the same wires. If your
Unit is
a year old, then it is likely identical to mine...and mine works well .
Hope this helps.
Best
Darc
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 15 17:16:00 1999
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From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: More S-AVC-R Plumbing Questions
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:14:06 -0700
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Hi Ken, Paul;
It sounds like Paul has my model of SAVC-R, whereas you (Ken) have the new
bells and whistles model. In the case of my edition, the solenoid has two
lines and the sensor is separate with it's own line. I suspect the box Ken
is talking about, combines these features in one unit. However, the plumbing
is still all the same.
My advice: get to it Paul, we've nearly talked this to death.
Darc
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: More S-AVC-R Plumbing Questions
>
>> >No one's response to my questions regarding the plumbing for
>> >the S-AVC-R has mentioned an orifice in their plumbing. APEXi
>> >has included an orifice in their supplied fittings, but their
>> >suggested place for its installation would not have the desired
>> >effect.
>>
>> What effect are you speaking about ? Usually, there is no orivice needed
as
>> this would cause a leak in the lines. AFAIK, there are three hoses that
go
>> to the Apexi box, the inlet from the y-pipe, the outlet to the "H" type
>> connector and the boost sensing line from the manifold.
>
>I assume by "Apexi box" you mean the solenoid. Actually, there are only
two
>hoses required: 1 from the y-pipe and 1 to the wastegate actuator
connector (H
>or Tee). The Apexi solenoid just vents to atmosphere.
>
>The pressure sensor requires a separate hose to the plenum OR you can tap
into a
>line pressurized by the plenum.
>
>--
>Drive faster, it is later than you think!
>
>Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
>General Atomics
>San Diego
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 15 20:48:33 1999
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From: "CEskelsen" <cesk@redrock.net>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Placement of T Connector for GReddy Boost Meter
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:45:02 -0600
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Another Newbie question,
My GReddy boost meter just arrived with the instruction booklet in =
Japanese. As far as I can tell, the installation calls for the T to be =
placed between Fuel Pressure Regulator and the Intake Manifold. There =
is a solenoid between the manifold and the FPR. Should the T be placed =
between the manifold and the solenoid or the solenoid and FPR? I =
appreciate any help offered...
Cory Eskelsen
96 RTTT
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<DIV><FONT face=3D"Zurich BT">Another Newbie question,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> My GReddy boost meter just arrived with the =
instruction=20
booklet in Japanese. As far as I can tell, the installation calls =
for the=20
T to be placed between Fuel Pressure Regulator and the Intake =
Manifold. =20
There is a solenoid between the manifold and the FPR. Should the T =
be=20
placed between the manifold and the solenoid or the solenoid and =
FPR? I=20
appreciate any help offered...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Cory Eskelsen</DIV>
<DIV>96 RTTT</DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BEFFC3.910852E0--
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 15 21:14:09 1999
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From: "Greg Gonzales" <greggonzo1@hotmail.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Greddy turbo timer How do I install?
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:13:46 PDT
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I recently purchased a Greddy turbo timer with harness for my 92 RT TT.
How do I install it?? The instructions are vague.
Do I take the steering column apart? The lower portion of the dash?
Can someone give me some steps to install it?
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks
Greg
92 RT TT
______________________________________________________
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 15 21:14:17 1999
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From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
To: "CEskelsen" <cesk@redrock.net>, <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Placement of T Connector for GReddy Boost Meter
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:15:25 -0700
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The T needs to see manifold pressure. Find the line from the manifold to
the FPR and use it. If for some reason your configuration is different,
just tap into the manifold line (there is only one of the appropriate
size -- the small one at the rear of the manifold) and don't worry about
where it is going.
The T should be in the line between the manifold and where else it is going
so that the boost gauge sees pressure befre anything else.
Barry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of CEskelsen
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 8:45 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Placement of T Connector for GReddy Boost Meter
Another Newbie question,
My GReddy boost meter just arrived with the instruction booklet in
Japanese. As far as I can tell, the installation calls for the T to be
placed between Fuel Pressure Regulator and the Intake Manifold. There is a
solenoid between the manifold and the FPR. Should the T be placed between
the manifold and the solenoid or the solenoid and FPR? I appreciate any
help offered...
Cory Eskelsen
96 RTTT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 15 22:52:57 1999
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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:52:40 -0500
From: Jeff Crabtree <wjcrabtree@sprintmail.com>
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Subject: Team3S: 1995 stealth brochure
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I know that this is probably WAY outta line here but I don't belong to
starnet anymore and I figured that someone may be interested.
I have a 1995 Dodge Stealth brochure/performance catalog that I am
selling on E-Bay. The auction ends in roughly two days I'm only asking
$2 for it plus some money for shipping because it is not perfect(see
listing for details) E-BAY Item #164019652.
Sorry for the off topic post guys but nobody has bid on it yet And I
think I'm practically giving it away. E-mail me in private for
questions or discipline.
Thanks,(and sorry)
--
-Jeff Crabtree
'91 Stealth R/T Turbo(#499)
'93 Wrangler 4.0L Sport
St. Louis, MO
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 16 03:59:53 1999
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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 05:52:19 -0500
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From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: The Boys Went Out to Play
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Long post -- of interest to road racers only
Yesterday (Wednesday), my son and I went to the Marshalltown, Iowa Go-Kart
track to spend an afternoon hot lapping. A bunch of guys (13) got
together, rented the track for $250, and lapped from 1:00 to 6:00 pm.
It's a 5/8 mile track with about 10 turns, run in 2nd gear. I hit the rev
limiter twice per lap, so top speed on track is about 80 mph. A fast lap is
42 sec., so we were running about a 55 mph average.
We had a regular car show in attendance: two Ferrari 348s, Porsche twin
turbo AWD, Porche 944 turbo, 4 BMWs, Audi, 5.0 Mustang, 300ZX twin turbo,
my son's Fiero and my VR4.
The track had a photocell timer set up, and one of our guys is a computer
wizard, so we had computer readouts all day of lap times. Your humble
narrator was 3rd fastest at 42.1 in the VR4, a few tenths behind the twin
turbo Porsche at 41.8 and one of the 348s, driven by an ex pro racer, at 41.7.
I followed the Porsche for a few laps, and could gain on him through the
twisty bits, but he pulled away on the straight with his 400+ hp. He could
go nearly flat through turn 1 at 80 mph, but I couldn't quite figure out
the correct line. The inside of the turn had a curb with rumble strips and
the outside was lined with tires a few feet away from an embankment, which
made experimenting with lines a bit dicey. I tried every which way to get
through that turn. My best line was to stab the brakes about 100 ft before
the turn to set the suspension, then power through in a 4-wheel slide. Yes,
a slide: for the first time, I actually got the VR4 sideways under power.
I'd run for 8-10 laps, until the brakes got hot (running stock pads), then
come in to cool everything down. We had some very experienced guys who
served as instructors, so I took two instructor sessions and made about six
solo runs. I guess I ran 100 laps or so, and used up a half a tank of gas.
The Yoko A032Rs stuck very well. At the very end, I put the Michelin Pilots
back on and did 10 laps or so. Alas, they had packed up the timer by then,
so I couldn't get a good comparison. I'd guess the 032Rs are good for about
a second a lap, maybe more. The best part is that they stick, and don't
slide (well, except for turn 1).
Amazingly, my stock brakes held up pretty well. I have some fairly good air
ducts rigged up now, so that must be the reason. If I had the Porterfield
R4 race pads installed, I may have caught both the Ferrari and the Porsche,
because the R4s stop much better than stock pads. I'll get 'em next time.
The group was just a bunch of guys who could take off during the week and
go play with their fancy toys. Two or three had done some club and pro
racing, several were ex-SCCA autocrossers, several run open track events,
and one or two were rank novices. One guy has a Corvette restoration shop
in Dallas and came up here just to run the track (I don't know which car he
was driving or how he got it here). I know, it sounds like a bunch of rich
white guys going out to play, but it wasn't like that. These guys were
fast, had well set-up cars, and had figured out a way to have some serious
fun.
This group gets together 2-3 times per year to rent the go-kart track or
set up their own autocrosses on a parking lot. All are tired of paying $15
to run an SCCA or Corvette club autocross and spending all day waiting to
get two or three short runs on cold tires and cold brakes. Instead, for $20
each we got 100 laps without pylons. Next, they plan to rent Hawkeye
Downs, which is a half-mile paved oval with a 1/4 mile paved oval inside.
They'll run 3/4 of a lap on the big oval, then turn left into the inner
oval and run it backwards, then back up onto the big oval. Should be fun,
running on an oval.
For those of you who are tired of sanctioned autocrossing, you might try
this approach. Find a bunch of guys with fast cars, rent a local track, and
set up your own hot lapping events.
Rich/old poop/94 VR4
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 16 10:42:59 1999
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Subject: Team3S: Antifreeze = Coolant?
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Thanks for everyone's help with my Low coolant question.
More questions :)
Is coolant sold in stores? Or do I buy the antifreeze and mix it myself?
What brands do you guys recommend?
Secondly, Im my car is up to 18k miles. Do you guys recommend I change the
anti freeze? I got the car at 14k miles, and its a 97. How difficult is it
to change the anti-freeze? Do I just dran the white container (I'm going
to assume there is a drain plug under it). Is it easily accessible ?
Thanks
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 16 11:07:27 1999
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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:05:07 -0500
From: Gabriel Estrada <typhoonzz@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Antifreeze = Coolant?
To: Mike Baldwin <mbaldwin@eecs.tufts.edu>, stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
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This is actually in response to my question about water pumps. I tried to
read through and decipher what the end answer was. Is it mandatory to
remove the timing belt or not?
Thanks,
Gabe Estrada
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Baldwin <mbaldwin@eecs.tufts.edu>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 1999 12:37 PM
Subject: Team3S: Antifreeze = Coolant?
> Thanks for everyone's help with my Low coolant question.
>
> More questions :)
>
> Is coolant sold in stores? Or do I buy the antifreeze and mix it myself?
> What brands do you guys recommend?
>
> Secondly, Im my car is up to 18k miles. Do you guys recommend I change the
> anti freeze? I got the car at 14k miles, and its a 97. How difficult is it
> to change the anti-freeze? Do I just dran the white container (I'm going
> to assume there is a drain plug under it). Is it easily accessible ?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 16 11:51:55 1999
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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:50:49 EDT
Subject: Re: Team3S: Antifreeze = Coolant?
To: typhoonzz@earthlink.net, mbaldwin@eecs.tufts.edu,
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Yes, it is mandatory to remove the timing belt. In fact, the timing belt
drives the water pump. So there is no way around it.
Joe. 91TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 16 18:28:37 1999
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From: "Noah Erickson" <noaherickson@sprintmail.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
References: <1f877a8a.25129609@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Antifreeze = Coolant? --- timing belt
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:26:58 -0500
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> Yes, it is mandatory to remove the timing belt. In fact, the timing belt
> drives the water pump. So there is no way around it.
>
Really? In DSMs the water pump is on the same belt as the alternator, but
since you have to remove the timing belt cover anyway you might as well
replace it. I would think the timing belt would only drive the cams, since
water pumps can break and wobble, causing the belt to come off, and that'd
be pretty catastrophic if the timing belt was on there.
Noah Erickson
1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 #1954
TTS' Spyder VR-4's chief "grease monkey"
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 16 21:06:19 1999
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From: Trevor James <trevorlj@feist.com>
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To: stealth@starnet.net, stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Freaky Bouncy Tach Question...
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Last week my car started having a problem where the tach will fall off to 0 then
bounce around below where it should be reading when doing a WOT launch in first
gear. Sometimes I get a check engine light also. The code was a "multiple cylinder
misfire". Here's my mods list;
HKS EVC IV@1.0 Bar
HKS Plugs@.034
Accel Wires
K&N FIPK
Borla
The engine runs normally and never coughs or stutters even while the tach's
bouncing. After the tach does it once for the rest of the time you drive the car if
you try to make any fast changes in engine speed the tach seems to lag and loose
it's signal. I'm thinking it's an ignition problem but I checked the wires to make
sure that they're securely on the coils. They don't "snap" or "click" into the
coils like the stock ones did. Like I said this just popped up and it never did it
before. I was on vacation to TX where I was using 93 octane instead of the 91 we
have here in KS. Since 93 is more difficult for the ignition system to light could
that be the problem?
Trevor James
96 R/T TT
92 GMC Typoon
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 16 21:50:35 1999
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From: "Noah Erickson" <noaherickson@sprintmail.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
References: <7057B516B5F8D11198320080296571A24D8D38@EXCHANGE> <37F7AFE0.5A4E8E2@pilot.msu.edu> <37E1BF36.AC0FCEBA@feist.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Freaky Bouncy Tach Question...
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:48:59 -0500
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Texas 93 octane is really 91 octane. There's no such thing as too much
octane, at least under 120 or so. The 3S can vary timing ALOT to compensate
for different octane gas, so it shouldn't be a problem. Also, check the
tach output wire on the coil pack assembly. I'm sorry I can't be too
specific, but I haven't looked at a 3S in awhile. I need to fix that. TTS:
ready for the next group of mods yet?
I hope that helps a little, and in any case it turns out to be minor and
easy to resolve.
Noah Erickson
1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 #1954
TTS's Spyder VR-4's "chief grease monkey"
> Last week my car started having a problem where the tach will fall off to
0 then
> bounce around below where it should be reading when doing a WOT launch in
first
> gear. Sometimes I get a check engine light also. The code was a "multiple
cylinder
> misfire". Here's my mods list;
> HKS EVC IV@1.0 Bar
> HKS Plugs@.034
> Accel Wires
> K&N FIPK
> Borla
>
> The engine runs normally and never coughs or stutters even while the
tach's
> bouncing. After the tach does it once for the rest of the time you drive
the car if
> you try to make any fast changes in engine speed the tach seems to lag and
loose
> it's signal. I'm thinking it's an ignition problem but I checked the wires
to make
> sure that they're securely on the coils. They don't "snap" or "click" into
the
> coils like the stock ones did. Like I said this just popped up and it
never did it
> before. I was on vacation to TX where I was using 93 octane instead of the
91 we
> have here in KS. Since 93 is more difficult for the ignition system to
light could
> that be the problem?
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 17 03:57:46 1999
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Reply-To: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: "Trevor James" <trevorlj@feist.com>, <stealth@starnet.net>,
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Freaky Bouncy Tach Question...
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:07:55 +0200
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>Last week my car started having a problem where the tach will fall off to 0
then
>bounce around below where it should be reading when doing a WOT launch in
first
>gear. Sometimes I get a check engine light also. The code was a "multiple
cylinder
>misfire". Here's my mods list;
Hmm, the first launch problem sounds to me like an electrical connection
problem. It seems like ignition is lost for a second.
>sure that they're securely on the coils. They don't "snap" or "click" into
the
>coils like the stock ones did. Like I said this just popped up and it never
did it
>before.
This is the same with the Magnecors and I highly recommend to clean and
regap (enlargen) the boot and the contact in it. A while ago I reported some
"Gremlins" in my car as I was stuck in bumper to pumper traffic and the car
died twice without doing anything. The problem finally were the wire boots
not making good contact.
> I was on vacation to TX where I was using 93 octane instead of the 91 we
>have here in KS. Since 93 is more difficult for the ignition system to
light could
>that be the problem?
You should run the highest octane rated available pump gas. Especially on 1
bar of boost, at least 93 octane is needed as even there knock rises. The
amount is not so much and timing will not be retarded but knock IS there !
My advise : Check the wire boots and contacts again and use an electrical
contact cleaner for this. Also remove the ignition plugs and clean the
contacts as well. Finally do the same to the ignition transistor connector.
Good luck,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 17 06:26:33 1999
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Subject: Team3S: Octane in Texas: 93 = 91?
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Noah Erickson wrote "Texas 93 octane is really 91 octane."
Please elaborate! What do you mean by this? Octane ratings are not the same
all over?
I have noticed that some stations have higher octane ratings for their premium
gas, but they also use ethanol blends (10% ethanol). My experience with an
older non-turbo carburated V8 car was that the ethanol blends did not SEEM to
give me as much power as 100% premium gas - even though the premium-only gas has
a 1- or 2-points lower octane rating (93 vs. 94-95 octane). I haven't really
done much testing of ethanol blends with my Stealth TT.
I used to live in Iowa, where 10% ethanol blend gas is cheaper than 100%
gasoline (due to state subsidies). Now I live in Michigan, where there is no
cost advantage to buying ethanol blends.
What are other list members' thoughts on this? I know that higher octane is
better - but if the octane rating is raised by using an ethanol blend, then is
it really better?
Roger Roskam
91 Stealth TT
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 17 10:14:57 1999
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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:13:54 EDT
Subject: Re: Team3S: Antifreeze = Coolant? --- timing belt
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Actually, on the 3.0L Turbo engines, the water pump is not driven off the
alternator belt (or an "external" engine belt) for a very good reason: power
consumption. I don't know how the water pump is driven on the NT cars.
However, the water pump on the turbo cars is a very well manufactured and
"streamlined" part that runs directly off of the timing belt. It is located
at about the middle of the engine beneath the timing belt covers (again, this
is on the DOHC turbo models). I would think the configuration is the same
for the DOHC NT cars.
Joe 91TT
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 17 11:54:06 1999
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From: "Kevin Schappell" <kevin@pacarsearch.com>
To: <TrboDrvr@aol.com>, <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Antifreeze = Coolant? --- timing belt
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:53:53 -0400
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How does driving the water pump off of the timing belt decrease HP loss?
Isn't it the same energy to turn the pump whether you run it off of the
timing belt or the acc. belt? Is there an efficiency difference in the belt
design?
Thanks,
Kevin Schappell
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-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of
TrboDrvr@aol.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 1999 1:14 PM
To: noaherickson@sprintmail.com; stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Antifreeze = Coolant? --- timing belt
Actually, on the 3.0L Turbo engines, the water pump is not driven off the
alternator belt (or an "external" engine belt) for a very good reason:
power
consumption. I don't know how the water pump is driven on the NT cars.
However, the water pump on the turbo cars is a very well manufactured and
"streamlined" part that runs directly off of the timing belt. It is located
at about the middle of the engine beneath the timing belt covers (again,
this
is on the DOHC turbo models). I would think the configuration is the same
for the DOHC NT cars.
Joe 91TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 17 13:05:03 1999
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From: "Wallis, Gavin" <WallisG@MWAA.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: FAQ update
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:04:20 -0400
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Being in the line of work i'm currently in, y2k, super-critical deadlines
come out of no where. So...nothing done this week.
However on your end i got a lot of great e-mails again. Thanks everyone!
Gavin
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 17 15:11:03 1999
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From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Road America
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Hey gang, there is an open track event at Road America on October 2-3,
sponsored by the Alfa Romeo club.
For more info, go to:
http://www.caroc.com/roadamerica.html
Just think...4.5 miles of black lightning...three one mile
straights...braking from 140 mph.
Rich/old poop/94 VR4/somebody stop me!>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 17 15:51:05 1999
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From: "Curt Gendron" <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: More water injection fun
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:50:37 CDT
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Hey everyone,
I just got my 1G DSM BOV and adapter in the mail today. And of course, I
couldn't wait to put it in and go have some fun.
My stock BOV leaks really bad. With the old BOV and the Blitz set at
100/100 with water injection, the most the turbos would peak to is 1.29
kg/cm2. (in third gear) Now with the 1G DSM BOV, the Stealth peaks at 1.50
!!! Obviously this is a big difference. The car did have hesitation when
it got close to 1.50, but no fuel cut. I think 1.3 is what I'll set the
limiter to for daily driving. ;)
In "drag racing" mode, third gear peaked at 1.42. Previous to the new BOV
in "drag" mode, the highest I got in third gear was 1.25.
I would strongly recommend anyone planning on running more than 15psi, to
get an aftermarket BOV or the 1G DSM BOV. The advantage the 1g DSM BOV has
over the aftermarket ones, is no stumbling during daily driving. My stock
BOV is junk, I can blow through it pretty easily and when I shake it, it
rattles like a baby rattle.
Now I need to get my butt to the drag strip. That will be tomorrow at Rock
Falls. ;)
Happy Boosting!!
Curt,
95 R/T TT --> 13.11 @ 105.9 mph
96 GSX --> 14.49 @ 92.9 mph
and author of Minnesota 3/S at: http://www.mn3s.org
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 17 18:09:42 1999
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: boost gauges in Denver metro area?
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:09:37 -0600
From: Dave Monarchi <monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
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Two questions. Sort of off-topic, but hopefully you'll forgive me.. :)
First, do any of you know of a shop that carries/stocks boost gauges
somewhere in or near Denver? (I'm actually in Boulder, but I've given
up on finding anything locally.) I'm looking for a gauge for my VW
GTI, and it's going to be a custom install, which is why I'd kinda like
to do the touch and feel thing to make sure it'll work before I buy.
Second, and please don't laugh, but is there any difference in a boost
gauge for a turbo vs. a supercharger? My GTI has a transplanted G60
corrado supercharged engine, and I have no way to currently measure
boost. So, is boost is boost is boost? I'm assuming so, but I wanted
the experts say-so.
OK I lied. I have another question. I'm going through painful
withdrawl without my VR4. I sold it, and have been kicking myself
ever since. Anyone know of any real bargains out there? 3 or S as
long as it's twin-turbo. Severe budget constraint, so it has to be
desperation sale priced. Yeah, I know, you'd have bought it yourself
if it were that cheap. Any leads on any good unabused 3/S TT would
be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Dave
87 G60 GTI
ex 91 Arrest-Me-Red VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 17 20:30:18 1999
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From: "CEskelsen" <cesk@redrock.net>
To: "3000 list" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Lowering springs for 96 RTTT
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:26:54 -0600
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My car is near 60,000 miles and I want to replace the stock struts and =
springs, hopefully lowering it in the process (3-4" wheel well gap). On =
most web sites, the kits say 95>w/o sunroof. Any ideas on whether the =
car has a sunroof has anything to do with dropping it an inch or two?
Thanks,
Cory
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<DIV><FONT face=3D"Zurich BT">My car is near 60,000 miles and I want to =
replace=20
the stock struts and springs, hopefully lowering it in the process (3-4" =
wheel=20
well gap). On most web sites, the kits say 95>w/o =
sunroof. Any=20
ideas on whether the car has a sunroof has anything to do with dropping =
it an=20
inch or two?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>Cory</DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF0153.5D2E6C20--
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 17 21:01:29 1999
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From: "Oskar" <swede@pclink.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>,
"Dave Monarchi" <monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
References: <199909180109.TAA02101@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Re: Team3S: boost gauges in Denver metro area?
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:54:49 -0500
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Try Mile High Motorsports in Littleton
http://www.mhautomotive.com/
Oskar
'95 R/T TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 17 22:44:44 1999
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From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
To: "3000 list" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Lowering springs for 96 RTTT
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 00:47:51 -0500
Message-ID: <LNBBICBDKNDOJAHLDNDDOECOELAA.bbedell@austin.rr.com>
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Yes, a sunroof adds extra weight to the car. If you put springs designed for
a sunroof car, in a non sunroof car, the drop will not be as significant.
Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of CEskelsen
Sent: Friday, September 17, 1999 10:27 PM
To: 3000 list
Subject: Team3S: Lowering springs for 96 RTTT
My car is near 60,000 miles and I want to replace the stock struts and
springs, hopefully lowering it in the process (3-4" wheel well gap). On
most web sites, the kits say 95>w/o sunroof. Any ideas on whether the car
has a sunroof has anything to do with dropping it an inch or two?
Thanks,
Cory
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Ye=
s, a
sunroof adds extra weight to the car. If you put springs designed for a =
sunroof
car, in a non sunroof car, the drop will not be as =
significant.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><!=
[if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><!=
[if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><!--[if supportFields]><span =
class=3DEmailStyle15><font=20
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-begin'></span><span=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail=20
Signature" <span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-separator'></span></span></font></span><![endi=
f]--><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'>Brad</span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Check out my home page:<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</span>http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><span style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes"> </span>E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#<span =
style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes"> </span>3612682</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span =
class=3DEmailStyle15><font=20
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
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12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span =
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span
class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]<b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>CEskelsen<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, September =
17, 1999
10:27 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 3000 list<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Team3S: Lowering =
springs
for 96 RTTT</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Zurich BT"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Zurich =
BT";
color:black'>My car is near 60,000 miles and I want to replace the stock =
struts
and springs, hopefully lowering it in the process (3-4" wheel well =
gap).
On most web sites, the kits say 95>w/o sunroof. Any ideas on =
whether
the car has a sunroof has anything to do with dropping it an inch or =
two?</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Thanks,</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Cory</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Sep 18 00:59:11 1999
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Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:57:56 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
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Organization: Behind the frontier
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To: Curt Gendron <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
CC: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: More water injection fun
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> My stock BOV leaks really bad. With the old BOV and the Blitz set at
> 100/100 with water injection, the most the turbos would peak to is 1.29
> kg/cm2. (in third gear) Now with the 1G DSM BOV, the Stealth peaks at 1.50
Ouch ! The rings are not made for more than 1.30. They will go south faster than
you think and I highyl recommend JE pistons and Total Seals for such a high
boost. Almost zero detonation is cool but hey the stuff must withstand the high
pressure somehow.
> My stock BOV is junk, I can blow through it pretty easily and when I shake it
> , it rattles like a baby rattle.
Then it is gone for sure. Mine is quiet, no rattling and so. But I will replace
it with the Greddy Type R soon. Not a BOV but a BPV for high pressure
application.
> Now I need to get my butt to the drag strip. That will be tomorrow at Rock
> Falls. ;)
Good luck water-buddy :) I'll be on dyno next Wednesday with the WI on.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Sep 18 08:20:43 1999
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Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 17:19:14 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Water Injection datalogs
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Today, I made many runs with the WI injection and different water pressures and
jet sizes.
The datalogs show now that knock is eliminated at 15 psi so I increased boost to
1.15kg/cm2 = 16.3 psi. Knock reappeared again and just started at 4500 now. But
the knock amount is very small and with the current settings no timing retard
occurs.
The temperature in the y-pipe did not go above 103°F and the aluminum y-pipe can
be touched now without danger to be burnt :) With WI switched off and running
1.05kg/cm2 the temp at the throttle rose above 144°F. Knock was even higher than
at 1.15 with WI.
I'm currently do not running any alcohol in the water so I expected the O2
sensor readings will become lower. But there was no sign of this and the
readings stayed above rich 0.90V !! The IDC was the same and the inj. were still
totally maxed out above 5000. Since the last runs a month ago I installed a
larger fuel pump (Denso brown cap) but this made no difference so far.
I just increased one bigger jet and hope to see 1.2kg/cm2 or more without retard
soon :) Slow but safe steps !
BTW: Why am I the only one that runs the datalogger on a 1st gen and comments
the readings. We have many WI users already and at least one has the datalogger
but I never get any log that could be compared. Just running 1.5 kg/cm2 without
real figures of injector time, O2 sensors, timing and real knock would be too
dangerous for me ! And no, I currently don't have the money for another rebuild
;-)
More to come,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Sep 18 11:13:16 1999
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Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:12:48 EDT
Subject: Re: Team3S: Antifreeze = Coolant? --- timing belt
To: kevin@pacarsearch.com, stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
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Driving the water pump off the timing belt decreases HP loss (at least
theoretically) because of the location of the water pump and its design,
engine balance, pump size and efficiency, pulley size and efficiency, and
probably a few other reasons. Also, the momentum behind the rotating cams
AND the crankshaft TOGETHER with the placement of the water pump in between
means that there is very little resistance and work needed to spin the
waterpump. In essence, once everything gets moving, momentum keeps it
moving. If the water pump is driven off the alternator belt, only the crank
(the lower end) is doing the work and there's nothing at the top end to
maintain the momentum. The crank has to constantly work to keep things
spinning. Therefore, you have the crank doing all the work instead of doing
1/2 the work when the pump is driven off the timing belt.
Joe 91TT
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Sep 18 23:19:22 1999
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From: "Noah Erickson" <noaherickson@sprintmail.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
References: <852567EF.0049B900.00@lngodd03.notes.chrysler.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Octane in Texas: 93 = 91?
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 01:17:47 -0500
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> Noah Erickson wrote "Texas 93 octane is really 91 octane."
>
> Please elaborate! What do you mean by this? Octane ratings are not the
same
> all over?
I hate to look stupid on the list, but I'll explain. It seems I
misunderstood a good friend of mine who _actually_ knows what's going. I
thought our gas is a few points below what its rated at, but apparently all
gas is. Texas (and anywhere else) 93 is more like 92.1 octane, or somewhere
in there. All gas is really a little lower than its rated, mostly because
of all the stuff put in to save the environment. More is, of course, always
better, and as long as you're getting your gas from a good source, you
should be reasonably assured that the number is close enough, certainly for
comparitive purposes. No Diamond Shamrock - "malt liquor for your car" as
TwinTurboSpyder put it.
Noah
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Sep 19 18:26:56 1999
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From: "Rice-Burner Crusher" <stealth_es@hotmail.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Engine replacement
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:26:30 EDT
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I have a 93 Stealth ES. Wanting more power(don't you love speed) I had
thought about a putting in aftermarket turbos, but everyone says, just go
buy a VR4 (or TT). Well, has anyone ever thought about putting in a V10
Viper engine in our cars? How complicated would that be? I saw a Jeep
Wrangler had one in it in a past 4x4 magazine issue.
Is it possible, provided you can find one?
______________________________________________________
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Sep 19 18:32:39 1999
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From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Engine replacement
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 20:35:37 -0500
Message-ID: <LNBBICBDKNDOJAHLDNDDIEILELAA.bbedell@austin.rr.com>
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I have to be the first to say: have you even learned where the hood latch
is?
This sounds like a smart ass remark, but think about the question you asked.
If 6 cylinders barely fits in the cars, how the hell would 4 more cylinders
fit?
This idea would require you changing it to RWD, lengthening the car about
18" (hood area) The whole project should cost in the neighborhood of
75-100k if done properly.
Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Rice-Burner
Crusher
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 1999 8:27 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Engine replacement
I have a 93 Stealth ES. Wanting more power(don't you love speed) I had
thought about a putting in aftermarket turbos, but everyone says, just go
buy a VR4 (or TT). Well, has anyone ever thought about putting in a V10
Viper engine in our cars? How complicated would that be? I saw a Jeep
Wrangler had one in it in a past 4x4 magazine issue.
Is it possible, provided you can find one?
______________________________________________________
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http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Sep 19 18:39:47 1999
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Message-ID: <01f701bf0306$0f323920$360143d8@monster>
Reply-To: "Gil Gomes" <gil@warpedweb.com>
From: "Gil Gomes" <gil@warpedweb.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: NGK Plugs
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:18:33 -0400
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Does anyone know the part number for
NGK Platinum plugs that would fit a '95
3KGT (DOHC?) And the gap?
Thanx....
-Gil
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2> <FONT =
color=3D#000000>Does=20
anyone know the part number for</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT color=3D#000000>NGK Platinum =
plugs that=20
would fit a '95</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT color=3D#000000>3KGT (DOHC?) =
And the=20
gap?</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT =
color=3D#000000></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT=20
color=3D#000000>Thanx....</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT=20
color=3D#000000>-Gil</FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Sep 19 21:34:21 1999
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From: "Curt Gendron" <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Lowering springs for 96 RTTT
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:33:57 CDT
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The 95 VR4s with the manual sunroofs and ECS can not have the Eibachs, RSR
or Intrax lowering springs put on them due to the fact that there is an
extra support bracket in the rear strut area and the ECS struts are slightly
larger than the non-ECS struts. If you don't have the manual sunroof or you
don't have ECS on your 95 VR4, you are fine. I think the ground control
springs will fit though. This is probably your only option for a 95 VR4.
(I don't say 95 R/T TT, because they don't have ECS)
This topic was recently hashed out on the starnet list. Believe it or not,
there are a few good topics on that list. hehe. Here is what Mike Davis
said:
From: Mike Davis <midavis@spf.fairchildsemi.com>
To: stealth@starnet.net
Subject: Re: lowering 3kgt with ECS
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:42:16 -0400
Well, I guess I'll play the newbie part to the hilt, so here I go:
I just picked up a '95 VR-4 (Title and VIN identify it as '95).
I DO NOT have ECS. I do, on the other hand, have a POWER sunroof
(solid panel, no glass). I haven't had time to check the factory
manuals yet, so I don't know how they deal with the various options.
I do seem to remember a bit about the three different roofs ( solid,
lift-off, and power). I forgot to check for info on the Spyder.
But here's the conventional wisdom: if you have a '95 with the lift-off
roof (early '95), you CANNOT use many of the commercially available
lowering kits. There is supposedly an additional reinforcement bar
in that area that interferes with the spring/perch (? somebody help
my memory on this one). I don't know what the story is for mine or
for the '96's (none of which were available with the ECS) as far as
lowering kits are concerned. Also, you may want to verify that AWD
part of the suspension manual. I'm 99% certain they have different
spring rates to deal with the increased vehicle weight (but I haven't
checked my manuals yet to be sure.
Mike Davis
'95 (1/2) VR-4
>From: "CEskelsen" <cesk@redrock.net>
>To: "3000 list" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
>Subject: Team3S: Lowering springs for 96 RTTT
>Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:26:54 -0600
>
>My car is near 60,000 miles and I want to replace the stock struts and
>springs, hopefully lowering it in the process (3-4" wheel well gap). On
>most web sites, the kits say 95>w/o sunroof. Any ideas on whether the car
>has a sunroof has anything to do with dropping it an inch or two?
>
>Thanks,
>Cory
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Sep 19 21:49:48 1999
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From: "Curt Gendron" <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: More water injection fun
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:49:22 CDT
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Hey everyone,
I do have to correct one thing from my previous post. My Stealth DOES hit
fuel cut at about 1.50 kg/cm2 with the water injection. I've since turned
down the Blitz DSBC.
I went to Rock Falls Raceway for some drag runs on Saturday. I noticed that
the 9B turbos would not boost past 1.31. Most of my runs only saw a peak
boost of 1.21. This kind of makes the 1g DSM BOV useless for drag runs.
But on the street, where you can punch it at low RPMs and let the turbos
spool up, the DSM BOV holds much better than stock.
My best quarter mile run was 13.09 @103.47 mph. I was hoping for 12s. But
still not bad for pump 92 octane gas, 9B turbos and a stock fuel system. :)
Roger, based on the testing John and I performed earlier, I still believe
1.35 to 1.40 is still a safe boosting range with water injection and a stock
fuel system. From 1.40 to 1.45 is questionable and probably getting a large
knock sum and retard timing. And fuel cut is going to happen in the 1.45 to
1.50 range. I've set my limiter to 1.35 for now.
Thats all for now,
Curt,
Minnesota 3/S racer,
http://www.mn3s.org
______________________________________________________
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 05:53:04 1999
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To: Curt Gendron <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
CC: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: More water injection fun
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Hey Curt,
Thanks for the update :)
> I do have to correct one thing from my previous post. My Stealth DOES hit
> fuel cut at about 1.50 kg/cm2 with the water injection. I've since turned
> down the Blitz DSBC.
Do you know the cause for the fuel cut ? Is it knock ?
> I went to Rock Falls Raceway for some drag runs on Saturday. I noticed that
> the 9B turbos would not boost past 1.31. Most of my runs only saw a peak
> boost of 1.21.
Any idea about the contignous bosot level after the peak ?
> My best quarter mile run was 13.09 @103.47 mph. I was hoping for 12s. But
> still not bad for pump 92 octane gas, 9B turbos and a stock fuel system. :)
To be honest, with 1.3 kg/cm2 you have to run into the 12s for sure ? Are you
sure not having a lot retard that steals power away ? Also you know too much
water may degrade the efficiency in the chamber and steals power away too. The
G-Tech showed 13.15 with 1.1 kg/cm2 and I'd say this is 0.1 too optimistic. But
with 1.3 and no retard you will definitively see 12s'
> Roger, based on the testing John and I performed earlier, I still believe
> 1.35 to 1.40 is still a safe boosting range with water injection and a stock
> fuel system. From 1.40 to 1.45 is questionable and probably getting a large
> knock sum and retard timing. And fuel cut is going to happen in the 1.45 to
> 1.50 range. I've set my limiter to 1.35 for now.
I'm going step by step and slowly increase the size of the nozzles and fiddle
around with the 3D MAP. I'm now bosoting up to 1.15 and knock start to appear at
4800 now. No timing retard so far but we'll see :)
Later
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 06:13:36 1999
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From: "Michael D. Romano" <mdr-nhl@worldnet.att.net>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Engine replacement
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:13:39 -0400
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Besides the fact that is hard enough getting traction in our FWD cars with
just the NA DOHC...I can't imagine even getting the car off the line with
hundreds of more HP.
-Mike
'93 Stealth ES
>
> I have to be the first to say: have you even learned where the
> hood latch
> is?
>
> This sounds like a smart ass remark, but think about the question
> you asked.
> If 6 cylinders barely fits in the cars, how the hell would 4 more
> cylinders
> fit?
>
> This idea would require you changing it to RWD, lengthening the car about
> 18" (hood area) The whole project should cost in the neighborhood of
> 75-100k if done properly.
>
>
> Brad
> Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
> E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> [mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Rice-Burner
> Crusher
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 1999 8:27 PM
> To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: Team3S: Engine replacement
>
> I have a 93 Stealth ES. Wanting more power(don't you love speed) I had
> thought about a putting in aftermarket turbos, but everyone says, just go
> buy a VR4 (or TT). Well, has anyone ever thought about putting in a V10
> Viper engine in our cars? How complicated would that be? I saw a Jeep
> Wrangler had one in it in a past 4x4 magazine issue.
> Is it possible, provided you can find one?
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 06:51:08 1999
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From: "Basol, John" <jbasol@Carlson.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: More water injection fun
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:50:32 -0500
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One thing Curt doesn't mention here is the answering machine message he got
from me last night with regards to the safety of our "stock fuel system".
In the last couple of weeks I started to notice a missing, like a plug
didn't fire, when I floor the gas. It doesn't matter what the boost level
is at, or even if there is boost present at all. I've been thinking that it
is probably the junk ignition system we have, but last night I started to
open my eyes a bit, and look at what the car was telling me. Every time
this "missing" condition occurs the a/f gauge drops from about full rich to
stoichiometric. It is a very quick reaction, and it back to full rich as
soon as the "miss" is over. My thought...failing fuel injector(s). My
thought on how they failed...being forced to run full open for way too long.
It seems there is a bit of Irony involved here. I have done everything I
can to maximize the cars stock setup, and in doing so I pushed it so hard it
failed anyway, requiring replacement.
All in all the moral of this story is, it seems we are going to have to be
more conservative about boost levels after all.
(Curt, turn the damn thing down, before you break something!!!) :-)
John Basol
'95 RT/TT
-----Original Message-----
From: Curt Gendron [SMTP:curt_gendron@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 1999 11:49 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: More water injection fun
Hey everyone,
I do have to correct one thing from my previous post. My Stealth
DOES hit
fuel cut at about 1.50 kg/cm2 with the water injection. I've since
turned
down the Blitz DSBC.
I went to Rock Falls Raceway for some drag runs on Saturday. I
noticed that
the 9B turbos would not boost past 1.31. Most of my runs only saw a
peak
boost of 1.21. This kind of makes the 1g DSM BOV useless for drag
runs.
But on the street, where you can punch it at low RPMs and let the
turbos
spool up, the DSM BOV holds much better than stock.
My best quarter mile run was 13.09 @103.47 mph. I was hoping for
12s. But
still not bad for pump 92 octane gas, 9B turbos and a stock fuel
system. :)
Roger, based on the testing John and I performed earlier, I still
believe
1.35 to 1.40 is still a safe boosting range with water injection and
a stock
fuel system. From 1.40 to 1.45 is questionable and probably getting
a large
knock sum and retard timing. And fuel cut is going to happen in the
1.45 to
1.50 range. I've set my limiter to 1.35 for now.
Thats all for now,
Curt,
Minnesota 3/S racer,
http://www.mn3s.org
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 07:20:43 1999
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From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: More water injection fun
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:23:30 -0500
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> > I do have to correct one thing from my previous post. My
> > Stealth DOES hit fuel cut at about 1.50 kg/cm2 with the
> > water injection.
> > I've since turned down the Blitz DSBC.
> Do you know the cause for the fuel cut ? Is it knock ?
At this high of boost, the trigger is likely similar to the DSM cars where
the ECU runs out of map area and triggers fuel cut as a failsafe measure --
the ECU assumes that the wastegates have malfunctioned and tries to make the
car misbehave badly enough to get you to bring it in to the dealer.
> > I went to Rock Falls Raceway for some drag runs on
> > Saturday. I noticed that the 9B turbos would not
> > boost past 1.31. Most of my runs only saw a peak
> > boost of 1.21.
I get fuel cut around the 1.25-1.30 area. One of the outer honeycombs in my
MAS was damaged by the previous owner, so I think my car is running
extra-rich because of it and is seeing more airflow than is actually
occuring. I'm going to try to back out the bypass screw to compensate for
the restricted airflow.
Has anyone removed the honeycomb from the outer air passage? What were the
results? Is drivability okay? Mine isn't totally blocked off, but the
outer edges of the fins are all kinked up and restrict about 20% of the
passage area.
> > My best quarter mile run was 13.09 @103.47 mph. I was
> > hoping for 12s. But still not bad for pump 92 octane
> > gas, 9B turbos and a stock fuel system. :)
Curt, you really oughtta run race fuel at the dragstrip. At least the 100
octane unleaded if you are going to crank the boost up. I'd hate to see you
blow your motor on something so preventable.
> To be honest, with 1.3 kg/cm2 you have to run into the 12s
> for sure ? Are you sure not having a lot retard that
> steals power away ? Also you know too much water may
> degrade the efficiency in the chamber and steals power
> away too. The G-Tech showed 13.15 with 1.1 kg/cm2 and I'd
> say this is 0.1 too optimistic. But with 1.3 and no
> retard you will definitively see 12s'
But with the 9B turbos you need to shift earlier to keep the boost up and
stay in the meat of the torque curve. Peak horsepower isn't improved
dramatically since the turbos can't push much more than 1.0 bar at redline.
There does seem to be a drastic torque increase between 3000-5000 RPM
though, where the turbos can provide the airflow asked for.
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 08:19:16 1999
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From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
To: "Matt Jannusch" <MAJ@bigcharts.com>, <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: More water injection fun
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:16:38 -0700
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-----Original Message-----From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@bigcharts.com>
------snip----------
>I get fuel cut around the 1.25-1.30 area. One of the outer
honeycombs in my
>MAS was damaged by the previous owner, so I think my car is running
>extra-rich because of it and is seeing more airflow than is
actually
>occuring. I'm going to try to back out the bypass screw to
compensate for
>the restricted airflow.
>
>Has anyone removed the honeycomb from the outer air passage? What
were the
>results? Is drivability okay? Mine isn't totally blocked off, but
the
>outer edges of the fins are all kinked up and restrict about 20% of
the
>passage area.
-------------snip-----------
Rich Leroy damaged his when installing his FIPK, so he took a pair
of needle-nose pliers and removed the entire honeycomb. That was
years ago, and the car runs great!
Forrest
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 08:21:09 1999
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From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: More water injection fun
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:23:52 -0500
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> Rich Leroy damaged his when installing his FIPK, so he took a pair
> of needle-nose pliers and removed the entire honeycomb. That was
> years ago, and the car runs great!
Okay, I'll be removing the honeycomb this week and will report on the
results. Thanks for the info!
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 08:40:10 1999
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Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:26:56 +0200
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
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Just curious how much altitude affects forced induction engines vs.
normally aspirated engines. Seems like a turbo would help compensate to
some degree... Thanx!
--
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 08:40:13 1999
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To: Team 3S Tech List <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
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Mike and I visited the Frankfurt Auto Show yesterday. What a HUGE
extravaganza it is! LOTS of money poured in there by the manufacturers
and vendors for the benefit of MOBS of people from all over the world.
Some of the presentations were better than others. Most of the German
manufacturers had their own halls, and Mercedes' layout was particularly
impressive. I think just about every model of every make was
represented, some with multiple trim levels. Lots of boring smallish
cars popular here in Europe, but also plenty from Ferrari, Lambo,
Bugatti, Bentley, Porsche (yes, including the new 911 Turbo!), Lotus,
Cadillac (Evoc), Ford (new retro T-bird), etc., all with complete
specs. There were also some good presentations on alternative fuels and
lots of car and engine cutaways. We were there for about six hours and
covered MAYBE HALF of what's there! Incredible.
Mitsubishi had a good sized section of a hall, but no 3000GT (not
surprising) and no 2000 Eclipse (very surprising). Also there was
Getrag... Mike spoke to the representative about the problems we've been
experiencing and verified that it is Mitsu who is to blame for the
contractual disaster and that there will be no solution for the
foreseeable future. He apologized for our problems but could offer no
more than a few packs of Getrag gummi bears.
Also of note was Allied Signal's display of Garrett turbochargers. They
are now big into the variable vane technology and had several examples
that looked bigger and perhaps superior to the Aerocharger. Those of
you looking into turbo upgrades would do well to check into these, as
they drastically reduce turbo lag over similarly sized conventional
turbos.
--
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
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Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 09:00:11 1999
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From: "Curt Gendron" <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: More water injection fun
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:35:48 CDT
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Matt, I partially agree with you on the shifting points. I know I can get
higher boost if I shift at 6,000 rpm as opposed to 6,800 rpm, but I'm not
convinced that I can run better quarters with that, but I might try it on
Oct. 2nd when we go. But if you are getting fuel cut at 1.25, that is what
a stock twin turbo should do. I'd make sure the water is working.
I wanted to run pump gas on Saturday, to see if it made a difference. I got
very similiar times with the 100 octane, as I did with pump 92. The water
injection cancels out the benefit of the 100 octane, but again I agree that
it is a nice safety feature.
Roger, I don't know if I'm creating knock at any point for sure. John was
suppose to make a knock sensor weeks ago, but he hasn't. Yell at him for
me. ;) I agree that I should be running in the 12s. Another Minn 3/S
member didn't do any better than me with 100 octane and the boost wide open.
I'm convinced I'm a crappy driver. I don't think I'm getting a huge
amount of knock at the track. We'll see if a test pipe and 110 leaded race
gas makes a difference next time. ;)
John, I turned the limiter down to 1.35. My car gets no hesitation at this
level, like yours, Oskar's and Francis's. My car runs really strong, I just
wish I could get the track times to prove it. But I guess the horsepower
numbers speak for them self.
later,
Curt 13.09 @103.47mph
http://www.mn3s.org
>From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
>To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>Subject: RE: Team3S: More water injection fun
>Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:23:30 -0500
>
>At this high of boost, the trigger is likely similar to the DSM cars where
>the ECU runs out of map area and triggers fuel cut as a failsafe measure --
>the ECU assumes that the wastegates have malfunctioned and tries to make
>the
>car misbehave badly enough to get you to bring it in to the dealer.
>
>I get fuel cut around the 1.25-1.30 area. One of the outer honeycombs in
>my
>MAS was damaged by the previous owner, so I think my car is running
>extra-rich because of it and is seeing more airflow than is actually
>occuring. I'm going to try to back out the bypass screw to compensate for
>the restricted airflow.
>Curt, you really oughtta run race fuel at the dragstrip. At least the 100
>octane unleaded if you are going to crank the boost up. I'd hate to see
>you
>blow your motor on something so preventable.
______________________________________________________
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 10:29:12 1999
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Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:26:39 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
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Matt, there is no need for race gas when running water injection. WI can provide
knock resistance like running 120-140 octane fuel !
> But if you are getting fuel cut at 1.25, that is what
> a stock twin turbo should do. I'd make sure the water is working.
I made exactly these experiencen when I runned the car to the rebuild. At 1.2 I
got hesitation and at 1.26 fuel cut. Of course, nothing that I can say safe :(
> John, I turned the limiter down to 1.35. My car gets no hesitation at this
> level, like yours, Oskar's and Francis's. My car runs really strong, I just
> wish I could get the track times to prove it. But I guess the horsepower
> numbers speak for them self.
Question : What have you gapped the plugs to ?
Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 10:52:51 1999
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From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: More water injection fun
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:55:50 -0500
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> Matt, there is no need for race gas when running water
> injection. WI can provide
> knock resistance like running 120-140 octane fuel !
I'd run the race gas at the track anyway just because the Spearco kits
aren't the most reliable. Mine blew a fuse and wasn't injecting water and
John Basol's kit had a bad water pump. If you are running a little beyond
safe on the street you can probably get away without the water by having the
timing backed off, but if the water stops spraying at 1.3 bars, really bad
things are going to happen in a hurry without race fuel of some sort.
Not something I'd want to risk my $65,000 car on - but if Curt wants to do
that then that's his decision. The 100 octane unleaded isn't that far out
of the way to get for us, and the safety factor is nice. How much does a
motor cost for these cars? If you blow a chunk out of the block, it is
going to be big money which could've been prevented by spending the extra $3
a gallon for racing.
> > John, I turned the limiter down to 1.35. My car gets no
> > hesitation at this level, like yours, Oskar's and
> > Francis's. My car runs really strong, I just
> > wish I could get the track times to prove it. But I guess
> > the horsepower numbers speak for them self.
All I can say is: "Be careful!" The extra horsepower isn't worth blowing
the motor. If it really is making a lot more power, then the times should
reflect that. Since the times aren't substantially lower than what you were
running before, I would proceed with extreme caution and figure out why the
times aren't better. Is the car really making more power, or does it just
feel like it? When my WI fuse blew, the car acted pretty much normal, but
just didn't pull as strong past 4500 RPM. Other than the power falloff, I
had no idea it was knocking - and the falloff wasn't that obvious. I'd
start by running lower boost levels (still above 1.0 bar, maybe like 1.1,
then 1.15, then 1.2) and see what times you get then. The water only helps
to a point, and only mostly in the midrange with the stock turbos since by
6000 you are back in the safe boost zone even without the water injection.
As far as horsepower numbers (Which numbers? Did you find an AWD dyno in
MN???) - if your trap speed isn't going up, then the numbers should be
suspect.
Sorry if I sound overly negative, but I could've easily blown up my car when
the WI fuse went, and I don't want to see someone else (particularly a
friend) not be as lucky as I was. The car sure feels faster with the water,
but the risk increases geometrically with boost pressure.
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 11:18:40 1999
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Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:12:35 +0200
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: More water injection fun
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"R.G." wrote:
>
> Matt, there is no need for race gas when running water injection. WI can provide
> knock resistance like running 120-140 octane fuel !
I would think that even with WI, higher octane fuel would be
advantageous. My understanding is that detonation is essentially a
result of temperature, pressure and octane. If higher octane fuel is
used, less water is needed to achieve the same knock-free performance,
right? So why add more water (non-combustable) when you can add more
octane (combustable)? I mean, you guys with WI aren't running the cheap
stuff now, are you? :-)
--
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 11:18:44 1999
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From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
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I asked this question a few months ago but was not satisfied with the
answers I got.
Why are folks continuing to upgrade their stock turbos with larger
conventional (ie- fixed-turbine & wastegated) turbos when VNT technology
is available? Why put up with all that lag to get the extra volume? I
was told that the Aerocharger is too small for our application. How can
this be given that single Aerochargers are so frequently found on 1.9
liter Miata engines? And what about turbos from other vendors, such as
Garrett?
Price? Reliability? Packaging? I just don't get it.
-Jim
P.S.- Here's an interesting read:
http://www5.ios.com/~vnt4/vntrpt.html
--
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
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Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 11:51:55 1999
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Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:49:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Team3S: Engine replacement - V-10 in a 3/S?
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I also read the article about the Jeep Wrangler with the V-10 engine. Remember,
the guy pulled out a 4.0L inline 6 to put in a 8.0L V-10. The V-10 engine was
probably shorter front-to-back (5 cylinders in a row) than the inline 6 that it
replaced. Our cars have a 3.0L V-6 mounted transverse (sideways) and an
associated transmission, so you would be looking at a very difficult
installation here - a much longer engine and transmission combo running
North-South vs. East-West.
If you really want a V-10 truck motor and a manual transmission that can handle
the torque, then do what the guys down the hall from me did - build a car
around it!
You can buy one of these cars, by the way, it's called the Viper. They run less
than $75-100K, too!
Roger Roskam
DaimlerChrysler
91 Stealth RT/TT
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 11:58:46 1999
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Engine replacement - V-10 in a 3/S?
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What about a W-12? Any takers?
Joe 91TT
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 12:33:29 1999
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From: "Basol, John" <jbasol@Carlson.com>
To: Team 3S Tech List <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: variable turbos
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:15:24 -0500
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Jim,
The VNT technology has been tried numerous times, even by Chrysler,
and every time the idea was scrapped due to reliability issues. When
Chrysler tried it on one of my favorite cars (the Dodge Daytona), they
pulled it after a year of production, citing owner complaints. I have
talked to a number of Daytona VNT owners, and none of the ones I have talked
to have had any problems with them, but that probably explains why they
still have the car. :-) I myself think the idea is good, but the mechanics
of it are tricky.
John Basol
'95 RT/TT
-----Original Message-----
From: Matthews [SMTP:matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de]
Sent: Monday, September 20, 1999 1:21 PM
To: Team 3S Tech List
Subject: Team3S: variable turbos
I asked this question a few months ago but was not satisfied with
the
answers I got.
Why are folks continuing to upgrade their stock turbos with larger
conventional (ie- fixed-turbine & wastegated) turbos when VNT
technology
is available? Why put up with all that lag to get the extra volume?
I
was told that the Aerocharger is too small for our application. How
can
this be given that single Aerochargers are so frequently found on
1.9
liter Miata engines? And what about turbos from other vendors, such
as
Garrett?
Price? Reliability? Packaging? I just don't get it.
-Jim
P.S.- Here's an interesting read:
http://www5.ios.com/~vnt4/vntrpt.html
--
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 12:53:21 1999
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From: Dennis Moore <stealth@kiva.net>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Engine replacement - V-10 in a 3/S?
In-Reply-To: <852567F2.00676461.00@lngodd03.notes.chrysler.com>
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<soapbox>
OK, we've berated our fellow list member enough. Just because an issue is
blatantly obvious to many/most of us, doesn't mean we have to jump all
over somebody who *doesn't* have the same level of experience and
knowledge. I for one have never seen an engine of a Viper, and don't have
a firm feel of how much larger it is than our V-6. (I "know" it is, I
just don't _know_ that it is, if you see the distinction.)
Besides, I've seen some very small V-8's and some very large 2-cylinder
engines. Maybe there _is_ a V-10 out there that would fit. Then there
was the Shogun, which dropped a Ford Taurus SHO engine into the back end
of a Ford Festiva, and all those mods nearly tripled the price of the
Festiva. I shook my head and asked "Why?", but if someone wants to build a
special project car, God bless 'em!
I thought one of the fundamental tenets of this list was that there are no
stupid questions? (Just the occasional inappropriate one...)
</soapbox>
Dennis Moore
stealth@kiva.net
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 13:00:57 1999
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From: "Curt Gendron" <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: More water injection fun
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:00:33 CDT
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Matt,
I appreciate the concern, and it still makes me a little nervous running
higher boost. But here are the things I do know:
- 1.25 or 18psi is the fuel cut mark with our cars in stock mode under room
tempature.
- With WI on, John's car did not get timing retard, even at 1.4 or 20psi.
- I monitor the amount of water I'm going through on a regular basis, so I
know it is working.
- Therefore, if I'm not getting fuel cut at 1.35, then the water HAS to be
working.
- If I got fuel cut, even once at the 18psi mark, I'd turn down the boost
right away and investigate.
I know these are not the best rules to live by with a $19,000 dollar car.
(my current book value) But until John makes my knock sensor, that is what I
have to work with. You are worring me more though. ;)
JOHN BASOL, WHERE IS MY KNOCK SENSOR LED?????
As far as the horsepower numbers. That is what I got with the G-tech.
Check out: http://mn3s.org/horsepower.html
The WI is not as effective at the track because our cars will not boost much
past 17-19 psi in "drag" mode. And the sustained boost is only around 15-16
psi. Some racing gas can accomplish the same thing. That is why my track
times haven't got much better.
later,
Curt
>From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
>To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>Subject: RE: Team3S: More water injection fun
>Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:55:50 -0500
>
>All I can say is: "Be careful!" The extra horsepower isn't worth blowing
>the motor. If it really is making a lot more power, then the times should
>reflect that. Since the times aren't substantially lower than what you
>were
>running before, I would proceed with extreme caution and figure out why the
>times aren't better. Is the car really making more power, or does it just
>feel like it? When my WI fuse blew, the car acted pretty much normal, but
>just didn't pull as strong past 4500 RPM. Other than the power falloff, I
>had no idea it was knocking - and the falloff wasn't that obvious. I'd
>start by running lower boost levels (still above 1.0 bar, maybe like 1.1,
>then 1.15, then 1.2) and see what times you get then. The water only helps
>to a point, and only mostly in the midrange with the stock turbos since by
>6000 you are back in the safe boost zone even without the water injection.
>
>As far as horsepower numbers (Which numbers? Did you find an AWD dyno in
>MN???) - if your trap speed isn't going up, then the numbers should be
>suspect.
>
>Sorry if I sound overly negative, but I could've easily blown up my car
>when
>the WI fuse went, and I don't want to see someone else (particularly a
>friend) not be as lucky as I was. The car sure feels faster with the
>water,
>but the risk increases geometrically with boost pressure.
>
>-Matt
>'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 13:34:01 1999
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From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: More water injection fun
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:37:05 -0500
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> - 1.25 or 18psi is the fuel cut mark with our cars in stock
> mode under room tempature.
Agreed... This is roughly how mine behaves.
> - With WI on, John's car did not get timing retard, even at
> 1.4 or 20psi.
How did you measure timing retard? Seat-of-pants only works for very large
variances in timing. If it is to the point where you can feel it, damage
has already become a possibility. The only instrument I know of that can
measure the dynamic timing advance on these cars is the TMO datalogger. If
there's another, I'd like to hear about it as I'd buy one today (provided it
doesn't cost $2000).
> - I monitor the amount of water I'm going through on a
> regular basis, so I know it is working.
So did I. Unfortunately I ran through a whole tank of gas with no water
injection and 18psi, maybe more because I lent the car to a friend and it
failed while he had it.
> - Therefore, if I'm not getting fuel cut at 1.35, then the
> water HAS to be working.
How does fuel cut relate to whether or not water is being injected into the
intake stream? The ECU has no idea that this is occurring. ?????
> As far as the horsepower numbers. That is what I got with
> the G-tech. Check out: http://mn3s.org/horsepower.html
Mmmm... Insert Matt's "grain of salt" statement here.
> The WI is not as effective at the track because our cars will
> not boost much past 17-19 psi in "drag" mode. And the
> sustained boost is only around 15-16 psi. Some racing gas
> can accomplish the same thing. That is why my track
> times haven't got much better.
Hmmm... Mine will hold 18 psi up to 5000 RPM and then dip to 14 psi at
redline. I still think that regardless if the car is making more power then
trap speeds should increase (and generally times should go down). Power =
propulsive force = higher speed at end of track. All other factors being
equal (or roughly close), your car should be faster if you are feeding it
more boost and everything is "okay".
If the car doesn't go faster on the water, then you might as well not crank
the boost so high to give yourself less chance of mechanical problems.
Still need more data on the water injection thing. I think it does
something*, but whether it is generating an appreciable amount of extra
power on its own I'm not sure of. Since I have a 2G car, I'm hoping that
Roger or someone with a 1G car and datalogger will be able to shed light on
the timing curves at various boost levels and such. With 13G turbos I think
there may be more increase since the boost will hold higher for longer, but
I think boost much above 16 psi is really pushing it on the stock turbos.
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 13:54:24 1999
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From: "nketo" <nketo@accglobal.net>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: bringing down that intake charge temp!
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:45:37 -0800
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Hello everyone,
I was wondering if any of you have had experience with either the
Alamomotorsports or HKS intercoolers.
I am considering getting one or the other, but would like some opinions
and/or
hard numbers/stats.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance to all!
Sincerely,
Noble
(nketo@accglobal.net)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 14:02:23 1999
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To: "nketo" <nketo@accglobal.net>, <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: bringing down that intake charge temp!
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>
>I was wondering if any of you have had experience with either the
>Alamomotorsports or HKS intercoolers.
>I am considering getting one or the other, but would like some opinions
>and/or hard numbers/stats.
Let me tag onto this request. Why do these furshlugginer intercoolers cost
so dang much?
Near as I can tell, all they are is a small heat exchanger that cools air.
This is not nearly as critical or complex as a water radiator, and doesn't
have any leaking problems. Seems like we should be able to fabricate
something ourselves out of 1-in. aluminum tubing and some radiator fins.
What am I missing here?
Rich/old poop/94 VR4
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 14:21:54 1999
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From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: bringing down that intake charge temp!
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:20:29 +0200
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>Let me tag onto this request. Why do these furshlugginer intercoolers cost
>so dang much?
Design !!
>Near as I can tell, all they are is a small heat exchanger that cools air.
>This is not nearly as critical or complex as a water radiator, and doesn't
>have any leaking problems.
The design is very critical ! How much flow do you have in a water radiator
? Then compare to the flow in an intercooler. the core design bust be as
less restricted as possible. Any bend, and small restriction causes a loss
in pressure and increase in temperature. Even the design of the endtanks is
important. Smoothing the air flow as good as possible is the main thing !
The core design of an IC compared to a water or oil cooler is totally
different if the job is done properly. Looking at our stock IC I must laugh
as the things are really not the best they can do. Check out the Apexi stuff
and you'll find reall good work :)
I use the water injection also for intercooling as I installed two nozzles.
The smaller one cools the air from the rear turbo while the larger controls
detonation. The result is a reducement from 144 down to 102°F ! No need for
a bigger IC so far :)
Roger
93'3000GT TT
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 14:27:09 1999
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From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: "Team 3S Tech List" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: variable turbos
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:25:51 +0200
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>Price? Reliability? Packaging?
You named them ! You know the principle of a charger is easy but with the
Aerochargers mory tricky elemnts come in play. The cost for such a
compressor wheel and housing is way over the conventional stuff. I like the
design and engineering behind it very much but there is just no application
that would fit some aftermarket demands. Interestingly the new BMW turbo
diesel engines for the 5 series uses the aerochargers and it is amazing what
they can do. Have you checked them out in Frankfurt ? But they are not as
effective as supposed on small engines and this is maybe why we dont' find
them in our applications but can be seen in engines above 4 liters including
trucks.
Later
Roger
93'3000GT TT
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 14:27:30 1999
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From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: bringing down that intake charge temp!
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:30:36 -0500
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> I use the water injection also for intercooling as I
> installed two nozzles. The smaller one cools the
> air from the rear turbo while the larger controls
> detonation. The result is a reducement from 144 down
> to 102°F! No need for a bigger IC so far :)
Does any of the water condense in the intercooler? That was one thing I was
concerned about when deciding how to hook up my Spearco kit. I know the
Aquamist kit makes a much finer mist, so it probably isn't as much of a
problem as it could be with the Spearco kit. The nozzle on the Spearco
doesn't atomize the water at all, but at least breaks it into smaller
droplets.
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 15:45:23 1999
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From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: More water injection fun
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:36:17 +0200
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I fully agree with more "conservative" steps in increasing boost.
Retarded timing must not be noticeable. Although one would say my car has
not enough high end power or I feel some hesitation. Timing retard is for
safety and nothing bad. On supercharged cars timing will be retarded on
different rpm ranges and particular amount of boost to prevent the engine
from earlier death as well as to have the full power in the other range.
Our ECU retards the timing when it sees a knock count of more than 16. With
1.05 kg/cm2 and runnign pump gas I saw up to 12 but of course no retard.
Increasing to 1.07 the timing got retarded by 2° due to a knock sum of 19
around 5500 and up. With the current settings of the water injection I'm
running 1.15kg/cm2 with knock starting at 4650 and stays constant to the
redline. Count is about 5 - 10. I now had to reprogram the water map
controller due to the earlier knock I'm getting. This tells me that the
valley we saw on our dynosheets must have been changed with the additional
boost.
This of course, will have a direct impact to the times as there is more
torque available in the midrange.
>> - I monitor the amount of water I'm going through on a
>> regular basis, so I know it is working.
This is another advantage of the ERL as the system 2 is able to detect any
failures and includes a warning light. I once forgot to connect one nozzle
and got the light immediatly at startup. Additonally, the light activation
line can be used for another safety, like opening a EBC bypass valve to
prevent overboosting.
>> - Therefore, if I'm not getting fuel cut at 1.35, then the
>> water HAS to be working.
>
>How does fuel cut relate to whether or not water is being injected into the
>intake stream? The ECU has no idea that this is occurring. ?????
This is easy ! Fuel cut is initiated if retarding the timing does not help
to keep the knock amount low. The logs show that the timing got increased
stepwise. If knock still rises, the timing got retarded more. If knock the
stays or lowers the retard stays the same. If knock is getting lower (less
boost in the higher rpm area) the timing is advanced again.
>> The WI is not as effective at the track because our cars will
>> not boost much past 17-19 psi in "drag" mode. And the
>> sustained boost is only around 15-16 psi. Some racing gas
>> can accomplish the same thing. That is why my track
>> times haven't got much better.
Ok, I'm running 13g and they hold boost really good. I've set the gain value
pretty low so there is zero overboost but a steady presure up to the
redline. WI takes the high temperature away and you can calculate the power
it will give. It is not a lot but the calc says that up to 8% can be found
with good intercooling and the same boost. Therefore, lowering the amount of
water until knock appears is one of teh right ways. I'm doing the other way,
increasing boost until knock appears and then readjust the water to lower
it again. Too much water causes "undercooling" and steals power away.
>If the car doesn't go faster on the water, then you might as well not crank
>the boost so high to give yourself less chance of mechanical problems.
Exactly my words ! I'll attach an analog meter to the water pressure sensor
too. This way I can measure the water flow by ml/min and see wht the engine
finally needs.
>Still need more data on the water injection thing. I think it does
>something*, but whether it is generating an appreciable amount of extra
>power on its own I'm not sure of.
It really does two things : Additional intercooling and detonation control.
A nice side effect is the plenum that is very clean inside :)
>I think boost much above 16 psi is really pushing it on the stock turbos.
Yes it does. And we should not forget about the injectors and fuel system
that is totally maxed out too. Hey our cars are made for 320hp and that's it
! We really have to work on them to get the running ;-)
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 15:45:24 1999
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From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: More water injection fun
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:43:39 +0200
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>I would think that even with WI, higher octane fuel would be
>advantageous. My understanding is that detonation is essentially a
>result of temperature, pressure and octane.
Higher octane gas is burnt slower and therefore may not ignite that quick
under high temperatures (what is related to the pressure) Water does exactly
the same. Racing fuel is not able to take that much heat away as water does
but the advantage is that it has energy stored and water does not. Finally
the proper combination is what counts as cooling the chamber must be done
with excessive fuel that finaly cannot be burnt. Again, think about what
fuel does and it is not made to cool the chamber ;-)
Cheers
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 15:53:30 1999
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From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: bringing down that intake charge temp!
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:51:55 +0200
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>Does any of the water condense in the intercooler?
Sorry, I was not clear enough. The smaller nozzle is installed in the IC
pipe that is mounted to the front head, above the turbo. The max IC outlet
temp was 144°F and the pipe was even hotter due to its mounting position.
The temp is then reduced to about 120°F at first before it enters the
y-pipe. The second jet is placed right after the BOV outlet. This provides
mroe intercooling and detonation control. Therefore, no water is sprayed
into the piping before IC.
> The nozzle on the Spearco doesn't atomize the water at all, but at least
breaks it into smaller
>droplets.
This was my major concern about he low water pressure. I'm running now 7 bar
of water pressure and a test showed how fine the mist is. Also there are no
droplets or water film on the inside of the piping. Hey, the sytem uses n
expensive pump and no pressurized tank and thisis why it is more expensive
;-)
Cheers,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 22:42:31 1999
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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 01:41:55 EDT
Subject: Team3S: heater problems
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
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Turned on the heater driving to work couple days ago. Cold air for about 10
minutes long after the water temp gage has come up to "normal range" (middle
of the gage - sure wish there were some numbers on the thing). Had the temp
set on 90 deg. Then suddenly I get really hot air after getting on the gas on
an open stretch of road. Slowing to a stoplight, the air goes cool again as
the engine idles. Pulling away from the stoplight I get warm air once again.
The air temp varies directly with my foot on the gas for about 5 minutes then
finally seems to stabilize.
Last winter, the air temp would be warm after about 30 seconds of driving
(after the water temp gage just starts to move of the bottom peg). Something
is screwed up. Once the air is flowing warm, everything seems to work
normally. I can turn the fan to its lowest setting and hear the baffles or
louvers or vanes moving to direct air to dash, windshield, feet, etc. I can
also hear the vanes move that direct the air to the heater or bypass it for
air temp control.
Seems like there is some kind of valve in the coolant system that gets stuck
and won't allow warm water to flow to the heater core properly - almost like
a second thermostat associated with the heater system. The temp gage shows
the engine temp. rock stable as usual, so I don't think the thermostat is bad.
Questions:
1)Added coolant to the reservior. Thought it was 50/50 mix of
water/antifreeze but turned out to be pure antifreeze. Could this cause the
problem?
2)Had to replace battery last week. Could this have reprogrammed the
environmental control computer? (i.e. is the computer still in some
"learning" mode? - '91 VR4)
3)Is the engine coolant temp gage for real or is a stupid gage like turbo
boost?
4)Is there some valve or secondary thermostat that feeds warm coolant to the
heater system that might be bad?
Thanks for any help.
Paul Klusman
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Sep 20 23:00:50 1999
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From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: heater problems
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 01:03:52 -0500
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My first reaction to this is low coolant level. Top off the radiator cap
area, not just the overflow bottle.
After that, replace your thermostat and possibly the heater control valve I
am doubtful that the valve is faulty though.
Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Klusmanp@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 12:42 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: heater problems
Turned on the heater driving to work couple days ago. Cold air for about 10
minutes long after the water temp gage has come up to "normal range" (middle
of the gage - sure wish there were some numbers on the thing). Had the temp
set on 90 deg. Then suddenly I get really hot air after getting on the gas
on
an open stretch of road. Slowing to a stoplight, the air goes cool again as
the engine idles. Pulling away from the stoplight I get warm air once again.
The air temp varies directly with my foot on the gas for about 5 minutes
then
finally seems to stabilize.
Last winter, the air temp would be warm after about 30 seconds of driving
(after the water temp gage just starts to move of the bottom peg). Something
is screwed up. Once the air is flowing warm, everything seems to work
normally. I can turn the fan to its lowest setting and hear the baffles or
louvers or vanes moving to direct air to dash, windshield, feet, etc. I can
also hear the vanes move that direct the air to the heater or bypass it for
air temp control.
Seems like there is some kind of valve in the coolant system that gets stuck
and won't allow warm water to flow to the heater core properly - almost like
a second thermostat associated with the heater system. The temp gage shows
the engine temp. rock stable as usual, so I don't think the thermostat is
bad.
Questions:
1)Added coolant to the reservior. Thought it was 50/50 mix of
water/antifreeze but turned out to be pure antifreeze. Could this cause the
problem?
2)Had to replace battery last week. Could this have reprogrammed the
environmental control computer? (i.e. is the computer still in some
"learning" mode? - '91 VR4)
3)Is the engine coolant temp gage for real or is a stupid gage like turbo
boost?
4)Is there some valve or secondary thermostat that feeds warm coolant to the
heater system that might be bad?
Thanks for any help.
Paul Klusman
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 21 00:00:12 1999
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From: =?Windows-1252?Q?Mikael_=C5kesson?= <vr4@bahnhof.se>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
References: <6C09D9B03136D3118398009027626965344618@EXCHANGE1>
Subject: Re: Team3S: More water injection fun
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:38:11 +0200
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I suggest that all of you that runs the Spearco kit connects a small light
to the waterpump and place the lamp somewhere inside the car so it's visible
when driving (you can find a good looking lamp for maybe 2$). This way you
will notice if the light doesn't light up during high boost then the fuse is
blown (or some other problem). This system is also good for tuning the
system, so you know when the pump starts spraying water.
I did this on my Celica GT4 (Turbo, AWD) and it was very helpfull.
/Mikael http://www.3000gt.nu
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 21 07:59:51 1999
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From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Cone filter test results
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:58:02 +0200
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Find more info under :
http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/special.html
HKS users may hink about the poor filtering :(
Cheers,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 21 08:06:42 1999
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From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
To: "'R.G.'" <robby@freesurf.ch>
Cc: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Cone filter test results
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:06:24 -0700
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Roger...
Can you translate from Japanese? Anyone? I'm curious as to how they rated
the filters...air flow, passing what size particulate matter, easy of
cleaning? It's hard to tell from the pictures, and the graphs look very
close.
Looking forward...Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: R.G. [mailto:robby@freesurf.ch]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 7:58 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Cone filter test results
Find more info under :
http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/special.html
HKS users may hink about the poor filtering :(
Cheers,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 21 08:14:21 1999
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From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Cone filter test results
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:17:35 -0500
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> Can you translate from Japanese? Anyone? I'm curious as to
> how they rated
> the filters...air flow, passing what size particulate matter, easy of
> cleaning? It's hard to tell from the pictures, and the graphs
> look very close.
The only part I could figure out is that the circular paper filter shows the
amount of particulate matter that made its way through the filter being
tested. I see Roger's point about the HKS. Glad I have a K&N...
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 21 08:16:33 1999
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From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Cone filter test results
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:14:26 +0200
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Hehe, no, I don't understand the stuff. There was a discussion on the MKIV
list about these results and they said it was directly tested on a dyno, one
after the another. The peak hp result and filtering quality were the main
criterias and I think this is what counts (sound, goose...) My new
application has a SUS filter ... I may also think about this :( Please note,
AFAIK there is no MAS adapter for the Apexi filter for our cars.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
>Can you translate from Japanese? Anyone? I'm curious as to how they rated
>the filters...air flow, passing what size particulate matter, easy of
>cleaning? It's hard to tell from the pictures, and the graphs look very
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 21 08:27:00 1999
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From: "Accelerated Accessories" <meyer2@erols.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: 1320 ft.
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:22:47 -0400
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All:
There is a big NIRA drag racing event on October 10th at Englishtown NJ. I
am trying to get my car ready to run there. Plus, there should be lots of
other fast imports there too including a few other stealths and 3kgt's that
I know of. This will be one of the last big events of the season. The
track at E-town is the best one I have ever been to. It has nice seating,
food, and coordinators. There will be tons of vendors and even the TOYO
tires girls will be there........ So, come on out and enjoy racing at its
finest and support this great event.
Matt
www.AcceleratedAccessories.com
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 21 08:31:39 1999
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From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: B&M New Volt coil amp test update
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:30:00 +0200
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I've got one of these amps last week and installed it yesterday. I went to
the dealer and he lead to the "canibalism" room full of dead engines,
Getrags and many more. Glad I took my swiss army knife with me and cut off
some nice connectors.
I soldered the New Volt wires (only two) into a new harness I conneced in
between the coil pack the orignal harness. Installation was done in minutes,
hehe.
Beforehand I regapped the plugs to 0.045 and run the car without the amp.
Even at 0.8 kg/cm" I got the hesitation / miss around 4500 and another at
5000. Increasing boost even more resulted in more misses ... but NO KNOCK !
Even more no log showed any sign that could lead to the cause of these
misses or hesitations. The only thing we know is that reducing the gap
solves the problem. I then connected the amp and did another run.
Unfortunately, no, absolutely no difference. Neither the logs nor the butt
dyno told me difference. Today I regapped the plugs again but down to the
stock 0.042 and the misses became less noticeable. But again, no difference
with the B&M NewVolt amplifier.
I'm still discussing this with the development engineer at B&M but he says
that this seems not to be an ignition problem. To be honest, the problem
goes away when I reduce the gap and therefore it is an ignition problem.
What do you think ?
He's also blaming the coil pack and the wires are not good because spiral
cores are required. Well, he did not knew that I have Magnecors and they are
spiral cores (checked back with Magnecor and they replied within 2 hours !)
But the coil pack could be weak for sure. I guess I may check the resistance
of the stuff. If I'm not getting any better result, I'll do not test the box
tomorrow on the dyno and will reconcentrate to the WI system.
Sidenote : As I opened the gap to 0.042, low end power became noticeable
better. I always felt something like a lag (also Jim noticed this when we
testdrove each others car) and this is now much better wit hthe wider gap.
Damn, we need something that allows us to run a wide gap without any misses
under high boost.
I keep you updated.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 21 08:37:28 1999
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From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
To: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>, <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Cone filter test results
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:40:31 -0500
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Remember to check for a 95+ eclipse if there is no listing for the
3000/stealth.
Also, the Eclipse K&N kit is cheaper and larger than the 3000/stealth
filter/adapter.
Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of R.G.
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 10:14 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Cone filter test results
Hehe, no, I don't understand the stuff. There was a discussion on the MKIV
list about these results and they said it was directly tested on a dyno, one
after the another. The peak hp result and filtering quality were the main
criterias and I think this is what counts (sound, goose...) My new
application has a SUS filter ... I may also think about this :( Please note,
AFAIK there is no MAS adapter for the Apexi filter for our cars.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
>Can you translate from Japanese? Anyone? I'm curious as to how they rated
>the filters...air flow, passing what size particulate matter, easy of
>cleaning? It's hard to tell from the pictures, and the graphs look very
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 21 11:39:00 1999
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From: "Dg B" <dbretton@hotmail.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: rear shock replacement? any ideas?
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:38:33 EDT
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Hey all!
It's me again... :) I have a question for some of the experts out there.
Let's see what you have to say.
I have been looking high and low for some good replacement rear shocks for
my non-turbo Stealth.
Here's the skinny on non-OEM replacements:
KYB: cheap. Just don't do the job.
GAB: don't make em for my car. :(
I know that Cody was looking at the KYB AGX adjustable shocks. However, KYB
does not make them for our cars (buncha jerks, sniff sniff).
Has anyone tried to use something other than these products as replacements?
Anyone tried to find something that fit the stock specs?
Here are the specs on the rear shocks (non ECS)
Max length mm (in) 515 (20.2)
Min length mm (in) 356 (14.0)
Stroke mm (in) 159 (6.3)
Daming force
Expansion N (lbs) 1,000 (220)
Contraction N (lbs) 550 (121)
The ECS is the same except for the damping coefficients.
What do you guys think? Could we use something else? How about a VR-4
shock? The specs are similar, except the stroke is a bit longer.
How about Koni? Any others?
Looking forward to hear some opinions!
Regards,
Dennis
______________________________________________________
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 21 13:19:12 1999
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From: "Fein, Edward" <efein@microstrategy.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: And you thought WE had problems...
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:18:37 -0400
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Proving that even a brand-spankin'-new Mustang SVT Cobra is still a
Rustang...
http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/news/messages/219.html
Compared to this, our tranny problems with Getrag seem pretty minor.
-Ed
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 21 14:25:29 1999
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From: "Phil Johnson" <dangerwit@mn.mediaone.net>
To: "'Fein, Edward'" <efein@microstrategy.com>,
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: And you thought WE had problems...
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:24:00 -0500
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MAN. That's a bummer. For them. ;)
For those of you who don't read The Onion, here is this week's car care
section.
http://www.theonion.com/onion3533/carcare_chart_3533.html
Phillip Johnson
Ceridian Employer Services
612-894-3224 (w)
888-415-4894 (pager)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Fein, Edward
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 3:19 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: And you thought WE had problems...
Proving that even a brand-spankin'-new Mustang SVT Cobra is still a
Rustang...
http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/news/messages/219.html
Compared to this, our tranny problems with Getrag seem pretty minor.
-Ed
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 21 17:50:28 1999
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From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
To: <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Cc: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: APEXi Boost Controller
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:46:10 -0500
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Ken, and all-
Being lazy, (don't want to remove the battery, battery tray and
windshield washer reservoir, etc.), I have decided on the following
plumbing for the APEXi Boost Controller:
1) Disconnect and plug the hose at the "Y" pipe that goes to the
OEM "H" fitting.
2)Disconnect the lower hose from the OEM boost control solenoid,
and connect it to the "COM" port of the APEXi boost control
solenoid.
3) Install a hose between the "Y" pipe fitting and the "NO" port
of the APEXi solenoid.
4) Put a "T" in the small hose between the plenum and the EGR
solenoid, and run a hose from the "T" to the APEXi boost
pressure sensor.
I am assuming that 1/8" hoses will be adequate. Anybody
disagree? I haven't yet installed the controller because I have
not been able to find the necessary fittings (in brass or plastic),
locally. I have found them in the McMaster-Carr Company
supply catalog, so will call them soon to see if they will ship
some to me. Thanks much, for any responses!
Regards,
ptg
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 21 17:58:48 1999
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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:00:36 -0400
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
From: Jim <jimc@pathwaynet.com>
Subject: Team3S: Test Drive Problems
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
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I was looking at a 1992 3000gt VR4 and I was test driving it and I was
about 3 miles from the house and it started smoking bad. The Temp went to
the top so I took it back. The guy said the water pump will probably need
to be replaced. I really love this car what is your advice? He will pay for
the repair but do you think the overheating could have damaged the engines
to much? Thanks for all the help!
~jim
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 21 18:14:39 1999
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From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
To: "'Jim'" <jimc@pathwaynet.com>, stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Test Drive Problems
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:13:14 -0700
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Jim...
Smoke from the exhaust is NEVER a good sign, but could be symptomatic of a
number of problems (many of which a water pump replacement will NOT fix).
Your best bet is to take the car to a mechanic you trust and have him do a
thorough check of the entire drivetrain. If you don't know of such a
mechanic in your area, post your location to the list and ask for responses
to be sent to you privately.
Considering the cost of repairing our cars, coupled with the fact that they
will not be produced after this year, may cause some people to "unload" a
car that is in poorly maintained condition.
Happy shopping!!!
Looking forward...Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim [mailto:jimc@pathwaynet.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 6:01 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Test Drive Problems
I was looking at a 1992 3000gt VR4 and I was test driving it and I was
about 3 miles from the house and it started smoking bad. The Temp went to
the top so I took it back. The guy said the water pump will probably need
to be replaced. I really love this car what is your advice? He will pay for
the repair but do you think the overheating could have damaged the engines
to much? Thanks for all the help!
~jim
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 21 20:45:34 1999
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From: Klusmanp@aol.com
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Message-ID: <6a59649c.2519aab7@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:44:55 EDT
Subject: Team3S: Good pricing on Stillen brake components
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I called Alamo Motor Sports to inquire about discounts for team3s folks on
brake components. The guy said, "well, yeah, sort of..."
I told him I was interested in Stillen sport rotors and metal pads for my '91
VR4 and quoted him the prices I'd just pulled off their internet site
(www.alamomotorsports.com). He thought the internet pricing might be old,
checked it for me, and came back with about $60 less for the pair of rotors
and $14 less for the set of pads.
I placed the order and then decided to check the pricing direct from Stillen
on their web site. The same set of front sport rotors direct from Stillen was
$300 vs. $204 from Alamo. The pads were $58 Stillen vs. $44 from Alamo. Of
course, you might talk Stillen down if you call them on the phone...
Paul Klusman
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 21 20:49:19 1999
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Message-ID: <3b9ce8f9.2519ab94@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:48:36 EDT
Subject: Team3S: Heater problems - need thermostat.
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I think I have traced my heater problem to a bad thermostat.
I assume this is going to be a $200 item. Any suggestions where to go for
best pricing?
Thanks
Paul Klusman
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 21 21:01:20 1999
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From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Heater problems - need thermostat.
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:04:23 -0500
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Not quite. Thermostat was about 25.00 from the dealer..
I could replace one in about 30 minutes.
Figure about 100.00 if a shop replaces it.
Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Klusmanp@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 10:49 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Heater problems - need thermostat.
I think I have traced my heater problem to a bad thermostat.
I assume this is going to be a $200 item. Any suggestions where to go for
best pricing?
Thanks
Paul Klusman
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Sep 21 22:37:13 1999
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From: "3000gtvr4" <gtovr4@postalzone.com>
To: "Chris Winkley" <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>, "'R.G.'" <robby@freesurf.ch>
Cc: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Cone filter test results
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:40:50 -0700
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Hi Chris and all,
I can ask my fiance to translate the stuff as she is Japanese, however, do u
want her to translate like all the filter results? =) Just use the Blitz
cone filter, I like it. Nevertheless, if u all insist, I will try to get it
translated asap. =))
Later
Julian Ng
94 VR4 Pearl White
Matteson Media Group
C89.5 FM KNHC, Seattle
gtovr4@postalzone.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
To: 'R.G.' <robby@freesurf.ch>
Cc: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 8:07 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Cone filter test results
>Roger...
>
>Can you translate from Japanese? Anyone? I'm curious as to how they rated
>the filters...air flow, passing what size particulate matter, easy of
>cleaning? It's hard to tell from the pictures, and the graphs look very
>close.
>
>Looking forward...Chris
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: R.G. [mailto:robby@freesurf.ch]
>Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 7:58 AM
>To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>Subject: Team3S: Cone filter test results
>
>
>Find more info under :
>
>http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/special.html
>
>HKS users may hink about the poor filtering :(
>
>Cheers,
>Roger
>93'3000GT TT
>
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 22 06:03:43 1999
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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mikael_=C5kesson?= <vr4@bahnhof.se>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Knock knock..
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:41:02 +0200
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Hi
Why do our engines knock? I know what knock is but I really want to know
what Mitsu missed when they built the engine. The Supra guys doesn't report
any knock at all but every 3S seams to knock as hell even at "low" boosts
(15psi). Is there something we can do inside the engine to prevent knock?
I know that bigger intercoolers and water injection will take the knock away
but thats not what I'm looking for.
Can someone please clear the mist?
/Mikael http://www.3000gt.nu
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 22 07:16:34 1999
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:15:58 -600
Subject: Re: Team3S: Test Drive Problems
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Jim,
My old stealth started smoking after a bad oil change... it didn't overheat,
but I found out that the 3rd and 5th cylinders were at 50% compression. Repair
cost from the dealership was 6k (I think).
So, if this guys says he will pay for all repairs, take it to a shop you trust.
Have them look it over and give you a list of problems... have the seller repair
the vehicle to your specs, at a shop you trust ... THEN buy it.
If you are buying a 92 my guess is it's not under warantee so you will be up
a creek if you don't get it in VERY good condition before purchasing. As we
all know, repair work on our cars is expensive and its hard to find a shop that
knows what its doing. Make sure he's got the paperwork that he's done the 60k
maintenance work and any other regular maintenance on the car.
I'd say if you really love the car just remember there are plenty of them available
to buy and you may want to wait for one that is in good mechanical condition.
A Mitsu dealership here in Tulsa usually has 2 - 3 VR-4s on the lot every day
of the week.
I was shoping for my VR-4 for about a month before I got this one. I bought
it with very low miles, excellent mechanical condition, extended warantee, and
was able to knock 6k off the price for slight hail damage. Its worth shoping
around to get the right one...
Good luck and let us know what you get!
Nissa
95 VR-4 with "Speed Dimples"
Don't mess in the affairs of dragons.
For you are crunchy and go good with ketchup.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 22 07:18:36 1999
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From: "Basol, John" <jbasol@Carlson.com>
To: "'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Knock knock..
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:16:45 -0500
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If I remember right (I think Jack T. can provide the specifics), the Supras
have one hell of a nice fuel pump. I would imagine that they come with a
pretty nice set of injectors as well. Well, if you can inject more fuel,
you can get away with higher boost before the onset of detonation. The
Supra may have characteristically lower charge air temps then the 3S as
well. I have never see the underhood of a Supra to see if they can breath
cold air better than we can, but so far I've never seen anything as cramped
as a 3S. :-)
John Basol
'95 RT/TT
-----Original Message-----
From: Mikael Åkesson [SMTP:vr4@bahnhof.se]
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 7:41 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Knock knock..
Hi
Why do our engines knock? I know what knock is but I really want to
know
what Mitsu missed when they built the engine. The Supra guys doesn't
report
any knock at all but every 3S seams to knock as hell even at "low"
boosts
(15psi). Is there something we can do inside the engine to prevent
knock?
I know that bigger intercoolers and water injection will take the
knock away
but thats not what I'm looking for.
Can someone please clear the mist?
/Mikael http://www.3000gt.nu
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 22 07:30:58 1999
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From: "Curt Gendron" <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Differential plug size
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:30:34 CDT
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I was digging through the manual last night to see what size the drain and
fill plugs are on the diff. Counldn't find it. The biggest size I have is
21mm and that is too small. I'm thinking it is a 23mm, but can someone else
enlighten me.
Thanks,
Curt
95 R/T TT
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 22 08:22:36 1999
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Message-ID: <37E8F385.2D1E5308@execpc.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:19:34 -0500
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
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To: Sirius 3000GT Mail List <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Supra Pump
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The latest gen Supra pump is a very good one. It may or may not be
exactly as good as the Cosmo pump that HKS sells as upgrade for
3000 VR4; but a DSM guy tested Supra pump through the whole
DSM fuel system (lines, rails etc) and got 240 liters/hr at 65 psi.
HKS is rated 290 l/h but that is not through the fuel lines etc, and
probably is at 45 psi not 65. At $184 plus ship from Toyotaparts.com,
it also costs less than half what the HKS costs...
Supras come with 550cc injectors stock (ours are 360).
Last weekend I installed an HKS twin ballbearing turbo upgrade on my
friend's 94 Supra, really neat setup...
As to detonation, I don't really know whether Supra people have
interrogation ability including "knock sum" such as we have with
the Todd Day system, so maybe they just don't know exactly when
knock starts. I have never HEARD my engine knock but it sure has!
Jack Tertadian
"Basol, John" wrote:
> Jack T. can provide specifics; Supras have nice fuel pump.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 22 09:13:42 1999
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From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Again : Dyno day .. results .. and more
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:12:11 +0200
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Short story : I'm dissapointed, bored to tears, broken heart, bad mood,
etc.... Live hurts !
I went to the dyno with my Supra TT buddy today with the aim to test the
following :
1. B&M New Volt Ignition amplifier
2. Water injection tuning
3. fuel trimming (leaning it out) with the AFC
4. Comparision of exhaust (stock today)
1.1. Test-run with Amp, no WI.
Pressure was the same 1.05 kg/cm2 as it was at the February dyno but of
course the ambient temperature was higher. Therefore I expected lower
readings for sure. Plugs were down to 0.032 compared to 0.034 the last time.
- Car pulled strong, no hesitation, no misfires.
- Knock started at 5625 and timing got retarded from 5830 on
- Knock sum got critical above 25 and timing got retarded by 6°.
This behaviour is logged and visible on the dyno graph ! You can see a
nice valley where the timing got retarded :-(
- Intake temp climbed up to 161°F (yes, really !)
- New Volt did nothing else
1.2. Later run without Amp, no WI.
Everything was the same although I got the annoying hesitation we all know
when the plugs are not regapped. My plugs are but under this heavy load it
was very noticeable. Therefore I can say the B&M New Volt ignition amplifier
does help but only a little :-(
2.1 Switched WI on and immediatly got the warning light. I found out the
front nozzle was broken due to my own stupidness. I checked everything
yesterday and killed the small thread in the pipe. Also the pump had no
water inside and the controller seemd not work properly. During the run my
buddy checked and said it is working but we didn't knew how much water was
sprayed. Of course not enough as the intake temeprature climed again above
160°F ! The WI system didn't work like the days before and I was not able to
do any more test on this issue ! Damn dissapointing to me (and waste of
money for sure !) Of course, my mistake :(
3.1 we played with fuel settings (+/ 15% are possible with the older S-AFC)
The mixture was really rich and increasing fuel above 5500 didn't help
anything to get rid of knock. Leaning it out started to lower the O2 sensor
readings but we haven't seen any gain due to this. Again, another waste of
money.
Side-Note : My Supra buddy has a Field fuel controller installed and started
to tune it in for a leaner condition. But the car corrected the setting even
at WOT (huuu ?) It is supposed to be in open loop but how the heck does it
compensate. They got 5 hp by running it a little leaner and after ten
seconds the thing went back to rich and the hp were gone !
4.1 You remember the dyno runs from Mike, Jim and me in Feb 99 ? You have to
because I had the ATR DP and test-pipe together with the Borla cat-back
mounted this time. Jim, the only one of the three cars had a totally stock
exhaust and finally got the highest hp reading and a good torque in the
lower band. Mine had an interesting torque curve in the miodrange but
finally the highest reading due to the 13G.
I went to the dyno with the complete stock exhaust. The figures speak for
themselfes : The torque reading was 70Nm less with the stock exhaust but the
same top end hp ! Hmm, I'm pretty sure this is due to the stock main cat
but surprised me a lot. We always thought of an aftermarket exhaust steals
torque away and gives some top end but it doesn't. I guess, I'll remount the
dp with high flow cat for the next test ! Of course the higher ambient
temperature and the warm "cooling" wind of the fan make the readings
questionable although the curves are looking very close to each other. And
if we say that the high temp causes power loss, this would mean that the
stock exhaust makes more power than an aftermarket. Well the result form
Jims car exactly tells this story !
Some notes from the dyno session :
- the hesitation of the ignition is not visible on the datalogs (too fast,
nothing the ECU can see !)
- oil temp was 10°C lower with 10W-60 compared to 0W-40 in February
- power loss from the AWD drive train was between 31-35% and I tell you the
thing got damn hot under the car !!
- yes, I had summer tires on the car ;-)
All in all I'm dissapointed with the results of these $150 runs and I'm very
angry about myselfs about the WI problem. I still cannot say why it didn't
worked and I have to do a lot of investigation. The test with the stock
exhaust showed that the larger diameters really help. Now we have to find
out if the dp and HF cat helps.
Regards to everyone,
Roger, Switzerland
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 22 09:55:19 1999
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CC: Sirius 3000GT Mail List <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Supra Pump
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Are any modifications (fuel level, gaskets, etc.) required to install a Supra
fuel pump in a 3S, or is it a direct bolt-in?
xwing wrote:
>
> The latest gen Supra pump is a very good one. It may or may not be
> exactly as good as the Cosmo pump that HKS sells as upgrade for
> 3000 VR4; but a DSM guy tested Supra pump through the whole
> DSM fuel system (lines, rails etc) and got 240 liters/hr at 65 psi.
> HKS is rated 290 l/h but that is not through the fuel lines etc, and
> probably is at 45 psi not 65. At $184 plus ship from Toyotaparts.com,
> it also costs less than half what the HKS costs...
snip
--
Drive faster, it is later than you think!
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 22 10:56:29 1999
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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:56:22 -0700
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Is about $1000 reasonable for replacing the following:
timing belt
tensioner
water pump
w.p. pulley
ac and alt belts and pulleys
?
Also, has anyone had any experience with the CAA 'car care plus' shop in
San Jose? They come highly recommended, but I did not see any high
performance cars there.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 22 10:57:23 1999
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From: "3000gtvr4" <gtovr4@postalzone.com>
To: <xwing@execpc.com>,
"Sirius 3000GT Mail List" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Supra Pump/Walbro Pump
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:01:18 -0700
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Hello Jack and all,
Errin mentioned to me earlier on about the Walbro fuel pump (which might be
getting soon) and I decided to check around about it. I posted a message on
the starnet list about whether anyone knew about the Walbro pump, but got no
response. Nevertheless, I managed to find a place called turbochargers.com,
(their ad is also in Turbo Mag) and emailed them regarding the Walbro pump.
This is what he said:
"The 15G's youre interested in are $925 each, We can give you a credit of
$50 per 9b core you send in, however none of the 9b parts are used in the
15g turbos. The 15g's are built 100% new. 550cc injectors should be
sufficient for all but the most obscene power levels on your engine. The
90gph HKS pump is a good choice, as is the 255lph walbro. Shipping would be
about $20, Im shooting from the hip on that."
Just thought I'd share this info. My question is then should I just go for
the Walbro pump or stick with purchasing the Supra pump?
Thanks all
Julian Ng
94 VR4 Pearl White
Matteson Media Group
C89.5 FM KNHC, Seattle
gtovr4@postalzone.com
-----Original Message-----
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
To: Sirius 3000GT Mail List <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 8:25 AM
Subject: Team3S: Supra Pump
>The latest gen Supra pump is a very good one. It may or may not be
>exactly as good as the Cosmo pump that HKS sells as upgrade for
>3000 VR4; but a DSM guy tested Supra pump through the whole
>DSM fuel system (lines, rails etc) and got 240 liters/hr at 65 psi.
>HKS is rated 290 l/h but that is not through the fuel lines etc, and
>probably is at 45 psi not 65. At $184 plus ship from Toyotaparts.com,
>it also costs less than half what the HKS costs...
>
>Supras come with 550cc injectors stock (ours are 360).
>Last weekend I installed an HKS twin ballbearing turbo upgrade on my
>friend's 94 Supra, really neat setup...
>As to detonation, I don't really know whether Supra people have
>interrogation ability including "knock sum" such as we have with
>the Todd Day system, so maybe they just don't know exactly when
>knock starts. I have never HEARD my engine knock but it sure has!
>
>Jack Tertadian
>
>"Basol, John" wrote:
>
>> Jack T. can provide specifics; Supras have nice fuel pump.
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 22 11:11:07 1999
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From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
To: Sirius 3000GT Mail List <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Supra Pump/Walbro Pump
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:14:08 -0500
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> The 90gph HKS pump is a good choice, as is the 255lph walbro.
> Shipping would be about $20, Im shooting from the hip on that."
> Just thought I'd share this info. My question is then should
> I just go for the Walbro pump or stick with purchasing the
> Supra pump?
I used a Walbro pump in my previous car (a '93 Eclipse GSX - 13.356@100)
with good results. It flows plenty of fuel (if I ran a hose from the tank
return line of the fuel pressure regulator, it would spray fuel pretty hard
out the line - fill a 5 gallon gas can in about 1.5 minutes), but it was
pretty loud. You can hear it whine at stoplights pretty easily, both inside
and outside of the car. If that doesn't bother you (or you crank tunes to
drown out the sound), I'd recommend it. I got used to it after a while, but
it is somewhat annoying. I don't know if the 3K version is any different
than the DSM type I had or not. I paid $90 through a group purchase by Tom
Stangl of Club DSM for the DSM pump. He can probably get the same pump that
Turbochargers.com is selling, maybe for less.
http://www.vfaq.com/pump-Walbros.html
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 22 11:19:20 1999
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From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
To: "'3000gtvr4'" <gtovr4@postalzone.com>
Cc: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Cone filter test results
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:18:04 -0700
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Julian...
Good to see you posting!!! I don't know about other listmembers but, as a
HKS Super Flow owner (it has a double bell instead of the one shown in the
picture), I would very much like to know how their ratings were done, and
specific details that are probably in the Japanese text. For example:
1. Which filters produce the most hp gain?
2. Which flow the most air (should come up in the same order as #1)?
3. What size particulate matter are they spraying into the filter?
4. Under what conditions?
When I look at the pictures, the amount of dirt on the paper seems to be
MUCH more than I've seen accumulated in the dirtiest of filters in my nearly
thirty years of driving. There will always be some trade off between
"perfectly clean" air and air flow. I'd like to know how they performed the
test, so I can decide if I'm taking unacceptable risks with my engine.
THANKS!!!
Looking forward...Chris
1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/HKS Super Flo intake, TEC 15G turbos, bored
and polished throttle body, RC 560cc injectors, HKS fuel pump, GReddy PRofec
A boost controller, G-force ECU upgrade, HKS SBOV, custom intercoolers,
Predator dry cell battery, Magnecore 8.5mm wires, NGK double platinum plugs
gapped at .030", ATR downpipe and test pipe, GReddy catback exhaust, GReddy
turbo timer, Eibach 1" drop progressive springs, Michelin SX MXX3 Pilots)
-----Original Message-----
From: 3000gtvr4 [mailto:gtovr4@postalzone.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 10:41 PM
To: Chris Winkley; 'R.G.'
Cc: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Cone filter test results
Hi Chris and all,
I can ask my fiance to translate the stuff as she is Japanese, however, do u
want her to translate like all the filter results? =) Just use the Blitz
cone filter, I like it. Nevertheless, if u all insist, I will try to get it
translated asap. =))
Later
Julian Ng
94 VR4 Pearl White
Matteson Media Group
C89.5 FM KNHC, Seattle
gtovr4@postalzone.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
To: 'R.G.' <robby@freesurf.ch>
Cc: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 8:07 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Cone filter test results
>Roger...
>
>Can you translate from Japanese? Anyone? I'm curious as to how they rated
>the filters...air flow, passing what size particulate matter, easy of
>cleaning? It's hard to tell from the pictures, and the graphs look very
>close.
>
>Looking forward...Chris
<snipped the old stuff>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 22 12:19:59 1999
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From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: "Sirius 3000GT Mail List" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Supra Pump/Walbro Pump
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:17:43 +0200
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As Matt mentioned, some people say that the pump is loud. But we also know
that the TT cars do have a fuel pump relay that keeps the pump running
slower (around 8V) until you step onto the gas. The Walbro pump costs $115
at this page :
http://members.home.com/syclone/APE/fuelpump.html#application
I got a brown-cap Denso pump and I was told this is an upgrade to the Supras
and flows the same as the HKS. Indeed it seems to be the Denso pump HKS puts
its sticker on.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
>> The 90gph HKS pump is a good choice, as is the 255lph walbro.
>> Shipping would be about $20, Im shooting from the hip on that."
>
>> Just thought I'd share this info. My question is then should
>> I just go for the Walbro pump or stick with purchasing the
>> Supra pump?
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 22 12:55:37 1999
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From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
To: "Sirius 3000GT Mail List" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Supra Pump/Walbro Pump
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:58:41 -0500
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Stick with the Supra pump. The Walbro pump wines and makes a lot of
noise.
If you don't mind the noise, it saves you a few dollars. The Supra (ND)
pump is of much better quality though.
Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of 3000gtvr4
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 1:01 PM
To: xwing@execpc.com; Sirius 3000GT Mail List
Subject: Re: Team3S: Supra Pump/Walbro Pump
Hello Jack and all,
Errin mentioned to me earlier on about the Walbro fuel pump (which might be
getting soon) and I decided to check around about it. I posted a message on
the starnet list about whether anyone knew about the Walbro pump, but got no
response. Nevertheless, I managed to find a place called turbochargers.com,
(their ad is also in Turbo Mag) and emailed them regarding the Walbro pump.
This is what he said:
"The 15G's youre interested in are $925 each, We can give you a credit of
$50 per 9b core you send in, however none of the 9b parts are used in the
15g turbos. The 15g's are built 100% new. 550cc injectors should be
sufficient for all but the most obscene power levels on your engine. The
90gph HKS pump is a good choice, as is the 255lph walbro. Shipping would be
about $20, Im shooting from the hip on that."
Just thought I'd share this info. My question is then should I just go for
the Walbro pump or stick with purchasing the Supra pump?
Thanks all
Julian Ng
94 VR4 Pearl White
Matteson Media Group
C89.5 FM KNHC, Seattle
gtovr4@postalzone.com
-----Original Message-----
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
To: Sirius 3000GT Mail List <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 8:25 AM
Subject: Team3S: Supra Pump
>The latest gen Supra pump is a very good one. It may or may not be
>exactly as good as the Cosmo pump that HKS sells as upgrade for
>3000 VR4; but a DSM guy tested Supra pump through the whole
>DSM fuel system (lines, rails etc) and got 240 liters/hr at 65 psi.
>HKS is rated 290 l/h but that is not through the fuel lines etc, and
>probably is at 45 psi not 65. At $184 plus ship from Toyotaparts.com,
>it also costs less than half what the HKS costs...
>
>Supras come with 550cc injectors stock (ours are 360).
>Last weekend I installed an HKS twin ballbearing turbo upgrade on my
>friend's 94 Supra, really neat setup...
>As to detonation, I don't really know whether Supra people have
>interrogation ability including "knock sum" such as we have with
>the Todd Day system, so maybe they just don't know exactly when
>knock starts. I have never HEARD my engine knock but it sure has!
>
>Jack Tertadian
>
>"Basol, John" wrote:
>
>> Jack T. can provide specifics; Supras have nice fuel pump.
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 22 13:17:49 1999
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From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Cone filter test results
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> 1. Which filters produce the most hp gain?
This is additionally written in english on the upper part of the pics :-)
> 2. Which flow the most air (should come up in the same order as #1)?
They just don't know.
> 3. What size particulate matter are they spraying into the filter?
Good one !
> 4. Under what conditions?
Just with a carpet cleaner, hehe :) They sucked in the particles on a given
distance over a specific period and then removed the filter out of the carpet
cleaner.
> test, so I can decide if I'm taking unacceptable risks with my engine.
No, I don't think that the risk is soo high. Just check the MAS honecombs and
you'll see that they are covered with a film of dust. I'm more concerned with
the SUS of my new application as you can really see through the thing :-/
Later,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 22 16:24:36 1999
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From: "3000gtvr4" <gtovr4@postalzone.com>
To: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>,
"Sirius 3000GT Mail List" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Supra Pump/Walbro Pump
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:28:29 -0700
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Thank You Brad and everyone who have shared their ideas about the fuel pump.
I am now in a state of utter confusion !!! hehehe! When u guys say whining
noise, does it sound cool like the sound of the turbo spooling or is it just
plain irritating.
According to Matt, it sounds really annoying man...have to think a bit
here....I take it that the Supra pump fits the 3000 without any problem? (At
least that's the info I have been getting)
Oh yeah, and thanks R.G. for the Walbro pump price lede; it's very helpful.
Only thing now is to decide about whether I want to buy the noisy pump or
the quiet pump =))
Thanks again everyone!!!
Julian Ng
94 Slam Pearl White VR4 with Bomex front lip and soon to get Veilside EC III
body kit! Yippee!
Matteson Media Group
C89.5 FM KNHC, Seattle
gtovr4@postalzone.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Bedell <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
To: Sirius 3000GT Mail List <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 1:01 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Supra Pump/Walbro Pump
>Stick with the Supra pump. The Walbro pump wines and makes a lot of
>noise.
>
>If you don't mind the noise, it saves you a few dollars. The Supra (ND)
>pump is of much better quality though.
>
>
>Brad
>Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
> E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of 3000gtvr4
>Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 1:01 PM
>To: xwing@execpc.com; Sirius 3000GT Mail List
>Subject: Re: Team3S: Supra Pump/Walbro Pump
>
>Hello Jack and all,
>
>Errin mentioned to me earlier on about the Walbro fuel pump (which might be
>getting soon) and I decided to check around about it. I posted a message on
>the starnet list about whether anyone knew about the Walbro pump, but got
no
>response. Nevertheless, I managed to find a place called turbochargers.com,
>(their ad is also in Turbo Mag) and emailed them regarding the Walbro pump.
>This is what he said:
>
>"The 15G's youre interested in are $925 each, We can give you a credit of
>$50 per 9b core you send in, however none of the 9b parts are used in the
>15g turbos. The 15g's are built 100% new. 550cc injectors should be
>sufficient for all but the most obscene power levels on your engine. The
>90gph HKS pump is a good choice, as is the 255lph walbro. Shipping would
be
>about $20, Im shooting from the hip on that."
>
>Just thought I'd share this info. My question is then should I just go for
>the Walbro pump or stick with purchasing the Supra pump?
>
>Thanks all
>
>Julian Ng
>94 VR4 Pearl White
>Matteson Media Group
>C89.5 FM KNHC, Seattle
>gtovr4@postalzone.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
>To: Sirius 3000GT Mail List <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
>Date: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 8:25 AM
>Subject: Team3S: Supra Pump
>
>
>>The latest gen Supra pump is a very good one. It may or may not be
>>exactly as good as the Cosmo pump that HKS sells as upgrade for
>>3000 VR4; but a DSM guy tested Supra pump through the whole
>>DSM fuel system (lines, rails etc) and got 240 liters/hr at 65 psi.
>>HKS is rated 290 l/h but that is not through the fuel lines etc, and
>>probably is at 45 psi not 65. At $184 plus ship from Toyotaparts.com,
>>it also costs less than half what the HKS costs...
>>
>>Supras come with 550cc injectors stock (ours are 360).
>>Last weekend I installed an HKS twin ballbearing turbo upgrade on my
>>friend's 94 Supra, really neat setup...
>>As to detonation, I don't really know whether Supra people have
>>interrogation ability including "knock sum" such as we have with
>>the Todd Day system, so maybe they just don't know exactly when
>>knock starts. I have never HEARD my engine knock but it sure has!
>>
>>Jack Tertadian
>>
>>"Basol, John" wrote:
>>
>>> Jack T. can provide specifics; Supras have nice fuel pump.
>>
>>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>>
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 22 16:43:59 1999
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From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
To: "'3000gtvr4'" <gtovr4@postalzone.com>
Cc: Sirius 3000GT Mail List <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Supra Pump/Walbro Pump
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:43:29 -0700
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Julian...
I believe they're referring to the whine of the fuel pump. Some electric's
are very noisy. I have a friend with a huge Holley fuel pump on a dual quad
502 cubic inch Crate engine and it sounds like a turbine spooling all by
itself (not a turbocharged engine). I actually like it, but I wouldn't want
to hear it on a daily driver. The Mazda pump I have (HKS) is as quiet as the
stock unit, requires no mods, and delivers twice the amount. More than
enough for 560 injectors, probably fine for 720s.
Looking forward...Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: 3000gtvr4 [mailto:gtovr4@postalzone.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 4:28 PM
To: Brad Bedell; Sirius 3000GT Mail List
Subject: Re: Team3S: Supra Pump/Walbro Pump
Thank You Brad and everyone who have shared their ideas about the fuel pump.
I am now in a state of utter confusion !!! hehehe! When u guys say whining
noise, does it sound cool like the sound of the turbo spooling or is it just
plain irritating.
According to Matt, it sounds really annoying man...have to think a bit
here....I take it that the Supra pump fits the 3000 without any problem? (At
least that's the info I have been getting)
Oh yeah, and thanks R.G. for the Walbro pump price lede; it's very helpful.
Only thing now is to decide about whether I want to buy the noisy pump or
the quiet pump =))
Thanks again everyone!!!
Julian Ng
94 Slam Pearl White VR4 with Bomex front lip and soon to get Veilside EC III
body kit! Yippee!
Matteson Media Group
C89.5 FM KNHC, Seattle
gtovr4@postalzone.com
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 22 18:32:39 1999
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From: "CEskelsen" <cesk@redrock.net>
To: "3000 list" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Starnet List
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:29:43 -0600
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Off topic apology in advance. Will anyone please tell me how to sign up =
for the starnet list. I have the e-mail address but not the home page.
Thanks, Cory
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 22 18:48:10 1999
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To: "'3000gtvr4'" <gtovr4@postalzone.com>
Cc: Sirius 3000GT Mail List <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:48:00 -600
Subject: RE: Team3S: Supra Pump/Walbro Pump
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I am assuming the Supra Fuel pump everyone is referring to is from a MKIV (93
- 99) Twin Turbo supra? What modifications are required to put one on a VR4?
Any differences for the different years of 3Si?
Regarding whines: tbe fuel pump installed on my husband's MKIII supras has a
VERY loud whine. It is electronic and doesn't sound near as well as a turbo
whine. I'll definately go with the quieter pump when I upgrade.
Nissa
95 VR4
Don't mess in the affairs of dragons.
For you are crunchy and go good with ketchup.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Sep 22 19:15:06 1999
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From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
To: "Sirius 3000GT Mail List" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Supra Pump/Walbro Pump
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:18:00 -0500
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No modifications are needed.
Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of syzygy@webzone.net
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 9:48 PM
To: '3000gtvr4'
Cc: Sirius 3000GT Mail List
Subject: RE: Team3S: Supra Pump/Walbro Pump
I am assuming the Supra Fuel pump everyone is referring to is from a MKIV
(93
- 99) Twin Turbo supra? What modifications are required to put one on a VR4?
Any differences for the different years of 3Si?
Regarding whines: tbe fuel pump installed on my husband's MKIII supras has a
VERY loud whine. It is electronic and doesn't sound near as well as a turbo
whine. I'll definately go with the quieter pump when I upgrade.
Nissa
95 VR4
Don't mess in the affairs of dragons.
For you are crunchy and go good with ketchup.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 23 01:41:54 1999
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From: "Carlos Q" <pir8ska@shadow.net>
To: "Team3s list" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>, <stealth@starnet.net>
Subject: Team3S: I've got an "aircharger" filter that I need to unload...
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:49:06 -0400
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I have a K&N Aircharger intake kit installed on my VR-4... my problem is
that i will be installing a Blitz DS Boost controller and the Aircharger's
Filter Cone is TOO BIG. it leaves little to no room for me to install the
hoses/ other components I need in that area between the top of the cone and
the enginebay. I was wondering if anyone out there that has a K&N FIPK on
their car would like to trade thier cone filter for my cone filter (not the
brackets and such... i just need the cone). The Air charger cone is about
twice the size of the FIPK cone....
Thanks alot,
Carlos
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 23 02:43:13 1999
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To: Carlos Q <pir8ska@shadow.net>
CC: Team3s list <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: I've got an "aircharger" filter that I need to unload...
References: <016101bf05a0$7f32b8c0$df3b11cf@carlos>
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You don't need to install the DSBC solenoid box there as the distance is
somewhat far. You can place the box in between the y-pipe and the rear turbo
intake. Mine sits now at the battery and the lenght of the hoses is minimal.
Also, if you really want to install the box close to the filter then look at the
space below the MAS as well the fuse box. There is enough room that is not
covered by the filter for sure.
If the cone filter is twice the size of the normal FIPK then it will touch the
hood anyways.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
> I have a K&N Aircharger intake kit installed on my VR-4... my problem is
> that i will be installing a Blitz DS Boost controller and the Aircharger's
> Filter Cone is TOO BIG. it leaves little to no room for me to install the
> hoses/ other components I need in that area between the top of the cone and
> the enginebay. I was wondering if anyone out there that has a K&N FIPK on
> their car would like to trade thier cone filter for my cone filter (not the
> brackets and such... i just need the cone). The Air charger cone is about
> twice the size of the FIPK cone....
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 23 06:26:58 1999
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From: "Curt Gendron" <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: I've got an "aircharger" filter that I need to unload...
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:26:35 CDT
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Roger is right. There are plenty of other places to mount to soleniod box.
One of our Minnesota 3/S members has the aircharger and his box is mounted
on the underside of the fuse box, nice and hidden.
The aircharger won't hit the hood as long as you drill a hole about half way
down the bracket and mount it using that hole. It is about twice the
surface area as the FIPK. And it was do darn cheap. (around $75) Of course
this made too much sense so K&N discontinued it and made the "generation II"
FIPK for the Eclipse. But that one is around $110.
later,
Curt
http://www.mn3s.org
>From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
>To: Carlos Q <pir8ska@shadow.net>
>CC: Team3s list <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
>Subject: Re: Team3S: I've got an "aircharger" filter that I need to
>unload...
>Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:43:22 +0200
>
>You don't need to install the DSBC solenoid box there as the distance is
>somewhat far. You can place the box in between the y-pipe and the rear
>turbo
>intake. Mine sits now at the battery and the lenght of the hoses is
>minimal.
>
>Also, if you really want to install the box close to the filter then look
>at the
>space below the MAS as well the fuse box. There is enough room that is not
>covered by the filter for sure.
>
>If the cone filter is twice the size of the normal FIPK then it will touch
>the
>hood anyways.
>
>Roger
>93'3000GT TT
>
______________________________________________________
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 23 15:02:49 1999
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From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
To: "Curt Gendron" <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>,
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: I've got an "aircharger" filter that I need to unload...
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:01:27 -0700
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These are interesting alternatives to the K&N FIPK... But isn't the
FIPK the ONLY one that is street legal and comes with a D.O.T.
sticker??? I think it's also the only aftermarket airbox that
doesn't void the warranty-- BECAUSE of the D.O.T. sticker... True?
Refresh my memory, guys...
Forrest
-----Original Message-----From: Curt Gendron
<curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
>Roger is right. There are plenty of other places to mount to
soleniod box.
>One of our Minnesota 3/S members has the aircharger and his box is
mounted
>on the underside of the fuse box, nice and hidden.
>
>The aircharger won't hit the hood as long as you drill a hole about
half way
>down the bracket and mount it using that hole. It is about twice
the
>surface area as the FIPK. And it was do darn cheap. (around $75)
Of course
>this made too much sense so K&N discontinued it and made the
"generation II"
>FIPK for the Eclipse. But that one is around $110.
>>From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
>>You don't need to install the DSBC solenoid box there as the
distance is
>>somewhat far. You can place the box in between the y-pipe and the
rear
>>turbo
>>intake. Mine sits now at the battery and the lenght of the hoses
is
>>minimal.
>>
>>Also, if you really want to install the box close to the filter
then look
>>at the
>>space below the MAS as well the fuse box. There is enough room
that is not
>>covered by the filter for sure.
>>
>>If the cone filter is twice the size of the normal FIPK then it
will touch
>>the
>>hood anyways.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 23 15:12:05 1999
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From: "Dg B" <dbretton@hotmail.com>
To: bf@bobforrest.com, stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: I've got an "aircharger" filter that I need to unload...
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:11:41 EDT
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>
>These are interesting alternatives to the K&N FIPK... But isn't the
>FIPK the ONLY one that is street legal and comes with a D.O.T.
>sticker??? I think it's also the only aftermarket airbox that
>doesn't void the warranty-- BECAUSE of the D.O.T. sticker... True?
>Refresh my memory, guys...
>
Actually, it's the only one with a CARB sticker, which, if I recall
correctly, stands for California Air Resource Bureau (or something like
that).
As far as voiding the warranty is concerned, I would think, technically, you
would void it with any aftermarket replacement filter unit.
Regards,
Dennis
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 23 15:36:47 1999
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From: "Jeff" <spydervr4@home.com>
To: "Sirius" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
References: <030301bf060f$31547d40$67e586cd@forrest.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: I've got an "aircharger" filter that I need to unload...
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:29:39 -0500
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The difference is in the CARB emissions sticker (making it legal for use on
public roads) and that it comes with the CORRECT brackets to that it fits
perfectly. The aircharger fits "close enough" but rubs a little bit. Not a
big deal for most people, but it can get annoying.
jeff
'95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
'90 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Forrest <bf@bobforrest.com>
To: Curt Gendron <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>;
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: I've got an "aircharger" filter that I need to
unload...
> These are interesting alternatives to the K&N FIPK... But isn't the
> FIPK the ONLY one that is street legal and comes with a D.O.T.
> sticker??? I think it's also the only aftermarket airbox that
> doesn't void the warranty-- BECAUSE of the D.O.T. sticker... True?
> Refresh my memory, guys...
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 23 15:38:13 1999
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From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: I've got an "aircharger" filter that I need to unload
...
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:41:31 -0500
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> Actually, it's the only one with a CARB sticker, which, if I recall
> correctly, stands for California Air Resource Bureau (or
> something like that).
> As far as voiding the warranty is concerned, I would think,
> technically, you would void it with any aftermarket
> replacement filter unit.
...but in accordance with the Magnusson-Moss warranty act the manufacturer
or agent performing the service who wants to deny warranty coverage has to
prove that your aftermarket part directly caused the problem being repaired.
They can't just straight-out void all your warranty because you put a K&N on
there.
http://www.sema.org/consumer/alert/warranties.html
http://www.sema.org/fedleg/warranty/warranty.html
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 23 16:01:09 1999
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From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
To: "Dg B" <dbretton@hotmail.com>, <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: I've got an "aircharger" filter that I need to unload...
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:58:35 -0700
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-----Original Message-----From: Dg B <dbretton@hotmail.com>
>>These are interesting alternatives to the K&N FIPK... But isn't
the
>>FIPK the ONLY one that is street legal and comes with a D.O.T.
>>sticker??? I think it's also the only aftermarket airbox that
>>doesn't void the warranty-- BECAUSE of the D.O.T. sticker...
True?
>>Refresh my memory, guys...
>>
>Actually, it's the only one with a CARB sticker, which, if I recall
>correctly, stands for California Air Resource Bureau (or something
like
>that).
>As far as voiding the warranty is concerned, I would think,
technically, you
>would void it with any aftermarket replacement filter unit.
CARB, yeah, that's it... Having the numbered CARB sticker proves to
guys at emissions testing stations that the FIPK is a fully legal
replacement... If you don't buy a unit with a sticker, they can
fail you. It was a dealer who told me that they honor the FIPK as a
legal replacement under warranty... Thanks for the memory jog,
Dennis! :-)
Forrest
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Sep 23 20:03:11 1999
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From: "Vineet Singh" <billi_gates@hotmail.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Walbro Fuel Pump characteristics
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:06:17 -0500
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I have had a Walbro fuel pump (255lph, std pressure) in my DSM for about 2
years now. It has never given me any problems until just recently where it
has an additional harmonic in the "whine" when cold. Not a major issue
(yet?).
I can boost all the way to 20psi w/o knocking, and do have larger injectors
installed. Since it's an A/T it also has a higher fuel pressure regulator
(putting more strain on the pump than a m/t DSM would).
When I FIRST installed it, it was quite annoying. Also, the guage of the
stock fuel pump wire in DSM's is about 18awg, which is clearly not enough
for any real modification of the car. Everytime there was a load on the
electrical system, the pump would change pitch. This was REALLY annoying
when you had indicators or flashers on. To alleviate most of this, I ran a
BOSCH automotive relay, and a 12awg wire (15a fused) straight from the
battery to the relay/pump. Does anyone know if the same defficiency exists
on the 3/S cars?
I have since covered the pump cover with two layers of dynamat, and an old
floormat (rubber/carpet). The noise is now between stock and what it was
with the pump immediately after installation. From the outside, the pump
sounds identical to a 95ish mustang GT.
These pumps are used in the mustangs for certain years, they are also sold
by HOLLEY for nearly twice as much as what you can find on the net. Tom
Stangl sold me mine, and still may sell them (www.vfaq.com). I have heard
some nice recommendations about the person selling them at the link in an
earlier post (had the word syclone in it). Expect to pay about 120$ for the
Walbro.
The supra pump is awesome as well, and is quiet! It is more like $200+, and
may be close to a direct drop in. Be careful with the fuel level senders
when installing pumps, many people have installed the pump itself correctly,
and then run out of gas (the gauge stays at like 1/4 or something). Also
make sure you don't drop stuff in the tank, and try to do it with the tank
empty.
I now have a digital camera, and will take numerous pics as my mods increase
:)
PS: Smoking can and will kill you, either when installing a pump, or later
:). Also don't do what my friend did, and screw one the positive spade
connector on the pump so that it is touching the metal fuel line (ground).
He's lucky he only blew a fuse... TWICE, instead of just the garage/himself.
Vineet Singh
Manuals On CD - http://manualcd.dsm.org
Club DSM A/T - http://at.dsm.org - "Never Lift To Shift!"
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 24 07:25:55 1999
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From: Mike Baldwin <mbaldwin@eecs.tufts.edu>
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Subject: Team3S: Aircharger questions
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I'm not sure if the aircharger will void the warranty, but wasn't one of
the list members saying how the FIPK (even though its smaller) results in
a much more significant punch?
He compared an FIPK and aircharger back to back.
But let me know about the warranty thing - has anyone taken there car in
under warranty with an aircharger or FIPK installed? Does the CARB sticker
really matter (say in like Cali)?
Thanks
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 24 07:32:51 1999
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From: Mike Baldwin <mbaldwin@eecs.tufts.edu>
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Coolant Confusion
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To the person who said their coolant was not 50 antifreeze/50 water -
is 100% antifreeze the real deal? I'm confused.
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 24 08:17:29 1999
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From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Coolant Confusion
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:20:49 -0500
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> To the person who said their coolant was not 50 antifreeze/50 water -
> is 100% antifreeze the real deal? I'm confused.
No, don't use 100% antifreeze. Use 50/50 if you are in a cold climate, I
think you can go 75% water, 25% antifreeze if you are in a warm climate
where freezing isn't a danger. The antifreeze protects against corrosion
and raises the boiling point for the warmer climate.
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 24 08:55:41 1999
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From: "Oskar" <swede@pclink.com>
To: "Mike Baldwin" <mbaldwin@eecs.tufts.edu>, <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.9909241023380.25917-100000@andante>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Aircharger questions
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:53:13 -0500
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Mike Baldwin wrote:
> I'm not sure if the aircharger will void the warranty, but wasn't one of
> the list members saying how the FIPK (even though its smaller) results in
> a much more significant punch?
>
> He compared an FIPK and aircharger back to back.
>
Not sure about the punch. I went from a FIPK to an aircharger. I have not
measured the performance difference. Here's a picture of the two side by
side.
Oskar
'95 R/T TT
12.67@107.5 w. FIPK
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 24 11:05:18 1999
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From: "Carlos Q" <pir8ska@shadow.net>
To: "Team3s list" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: electronics quesion about active aero (again)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:12:25 -0400
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I will try this once more... I have removed the front air dam and motor from
my active aero system (its all for sale if anyone's interested) and the
system will stop working as soon as it disengages the first time... I am
not VERY savvy in the electronics area (I can install things and solder, but
not troubleshoot circuits...), so I do not know what I shoud do to remedy
this problem (I suppose something must be done to the front wire harness
that was attached to the motor). Could anyone help me fix my situation?
(roger suggested I use some sort of "power resistor"... I know what a
resistor is, but wht is a power resistor?)
Thanks so much,
Carlos
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 24 11:06:21 1999
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From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
To: "Mike Baldwin" <mbaldwin@eecs.tufts.edu>, <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Aircharger questions
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:01:16 -0700
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-----Original Message-----From: Mike Baldwin
<mbaldwin@eecs.tufts.edu>
----snip-------
>But let me know about the warranty thing - has anyone taken their
car in
>under warranty with an aircharger or FIPK installed? Does the CARB
sticker
>really matter (say in like Cali)?
It does matter here in the Bay Area... The guy at the inspection
station year before last looked up the CARB number, and said that if
it weren't listed, it would be a valid reason for him to fail a car.
He also mentioned that if the inspector didn't notice the mod (most
wouldn't) and emissions checked out, you could just as easily pass.
He just 'knew' the car because the Stealth was always his 'dream
car', (like so many other folks I've run into)! :-) The guy last
year didn't notice, or didn't mention it...
I called my dealer this morning, and he said "it depends on the
dealer", whether or not they try to stiff you because of aftermarket
items... "With an FIPK, because of the CARB sticker, most dealers
won't hassle you". I'd take his comments with a grain of salt,
however, since these guys are so honorable it's almost scary-- not
the typical dealer, from my experience. They don't even hassle me
with my RPS clutch and Eibach springs, because they installed them,
they know I don't race, and I have a low mileage car... Even though
I'm 6 months out of warranty, they honor small problems without
charging me for labor (I only pay for parts), and they have Team3S
'listed', giving any of us a 10% discount. I'm sure they can spare
it, too-- they charge $87.50/hr!
The 'special treatment' I get is attributable to the clout of
Team3S; I gave them a letter a year ago (on our letterhead),
telling them that I would be listing them on our upcoming "Good
Guys" Vendors Page for all the world to see. Maybe a good idea for
all of you... I'll provide a sample letter in Word97 format for
anyone who wants it- email me privately. And eventually, we
actually WILL have a "Good Guys" page...
Forrest
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 24 11:15:57 1999
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Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:15:46 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Organization: General Atomics - Fusion Group
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To: Carlos Q <pir8ska@shadow.net>, Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: electronics quesion about active aero (again)
References: <01aa01bf06b8$5b31c240$d03a11cf@carlos>
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> I will try this once more... I have removed the front air dam and motor from
> my active aero system (its all for sale if anyone's interested) and the
> system will stop working as soon as it disengages the first time... I am
> not VERY savvy in the electronics area (I can install things and solder, but
> not troubleshoot circuits...), so I do not know what I shoud do to remedy
> this problem (I suppose something must be done to the front wire harness
> that was attached to the motor). Could anyone help me fix my situation?
Perhaps the rear wing is just 'sticky' and sluggish enough to disable the AERO
occasionally. Try disassembling, cleaning, and greasing the rear wing to see if
that fixes the problem.
--
Drive faster, it is later than you think!
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 24 11:21:44 1999
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Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:20:15 -0700
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Organization: University of Washington
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Aircharger questions
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> Oskar sent some picture file to the list
Aren't attached files prohibited on this mailing list?
If so, PLEASE don't send them. They tend to crash my browser.
Since I use Netscape, I think Microsoft has something to do with it.
Thanks,
--Errin Humphrey
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 24 11:30:01 1999
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Message-ID: <000a01bf06bb$cd3951c0$165fc998@carlos>
From: "Carlos Q" <pir8ska@shadow.net>
To: "Ken Middaugh" <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>,
"Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: electronics quesion about active aero (again)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:37:04 -0400
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no, i thought of that already, but my rear spoiler is working perfect...
when i had the front air dam installed it usually worked, except when the
FRONT got stuck (you could tell because the light would come on, and the dam
would stay halfway-up or down). Now that there is no front, it thinks there
is a problem with it and the light comes on religiously...
----Original Message-----
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
To: Carlos Q <pir8ska@shadow.net>; Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: electronics quesion about active aero (again)
>
>> I will try this once more... I have removed the front air dam and motor
from
>> my active aero system (its all for sale if anyone's interested) and the
>> system will stop working as soon as it disengages the first time... I am
>> not VERY savvy in the electronics area (I can install things and solder,
but
>> not troubleshoot circuits...), so I do not know what I shoud do to remedy
>> this problem (I suppose something must be done to the front wire harness
>> that was attached to the motor). Could anyone help me fix my situation?
>
>Perhaps the rear wing is just 'sticky' and sluggish enough to disable the
AERO
>occasionally. Try disassembling, cleaning, and greasing the rear wing to
see if
>that fixes the problem.
>
>--
>Drive faster, it is later than you think!
>
>Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
>General Atomics
>San Diego
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 24 12:08:40 1999
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Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:07:39 EDT
Subject: Re: Team3S: I've got an "aircharger" filter that I need to unload...
To: MAJ@bigcharts.com, stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
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Matt, you are absolutely correct. I am a lawyer and have litigated that
issue numerous times.
Joe 91TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 24 12:24:38 1999
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From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: "Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: electronics quesion about active aero (again)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:23:11 +0200
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I was wrong with the power transistor as simulating the motor wouldn't help
at all.
The AA circuit consists of two switches in the front (one rotating contacts,
two position contacts). The motor rotates 180° from one switch to the other
switch position each time it is activated. If the switches are not activated
correctly in the front and the rear simultaneously, the system indicates a
failure.
In your case, you probably have removed a lot of this stuff or either the
motor doesn't rotate correctly or the switches are not ok.
There are several solutions to this but the easist one is just to kepp the
motor and switch running but removing the linkage to the air dam. If this
isn't possible and everythign has to be removed, the switch positions have
to be simulated. You can do this with a relay that is actiovated by the rear
up/down switches. If the rear sees low than also the front must see low and
vice versa.
The limit switch in the rear contacts the check wire "slant" to GROUND.
Therefore, you may be able to connect the ground connection of a relay to
this line (use a diode to prevent power going into the AA ECU from the coil
of the relay). Use a a/b contact relay that connects the front sensing line
with the up-wire when the relay is activated and with the down-wire when
deactivated. This should work .... theoretically.
It may become a problem if the AA ECU uses some timing internally to sense
the stuff as well when it checks the current drawn by the front motor. This
I don't know but as the simulation seems easy I'd give it a try.
Hope this helps,
Roger
93'3000GT TT (AA working :))
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 24 12:31:07 1999
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From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: "3/S Sirius Mailing List" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Warning was Team3S: Aircharger questions
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:29:07 -0700
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Errin et al;
Roger is marginally off base here, albeit in character with our gentleman's
conduct. We do discourage attached picture files on this list. As this was
small pic, it was not the subject of a warning, however, small infractions
lead to larger ones when the smaller ones are overlooked. So, for future
reference, please do not send attached files to the list. Rules are rules
and we aim to enforce them. If in doubt, ask, or go to the rules page.
Darcy
Admin Team3S
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 24 12:51:03 1999
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From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: "Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Picture Files
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:49:09 -0700
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I must correct an error I just made. We DO allow small picture files. Roger
is right, I am wrong. It just goes to show how one "thinks" as to opposed
how things really are (see rules).
Darc
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 24 13:05:03 1999
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From: "Oskar" <swede@pclink.com>
To: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>,
"3/S Sirius Mailing List" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
References: <015f01bf06c3$171b07a0$cf5135d1@pentiumt>
Subject: Re: Warning was Team3S: Aircharger questions
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:02:40 -0500
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Ladies and Gentlemen,
The following is quoted from house rule number 2: (as seen on
http://www.3si.org/techlist.html )
"When posting photo attachments, please keep the size down to around 30K and
limit yourself to two (2) pictures. If you have several images of interest
to the entire list, either put them on a web page or ask if anyone on the
list has web space where you may put them up."
With this in mind I do not see wherein the "small infraction" lies. Darcy
could you please elaborate. I was under the impression that I was actually
performing a valuable service to the list members when posting this picture.
It was noted by Darcy, and you shall all know that I took care to ensure
that the picture was not of offending size before sending it.
Haven't we already covered this subject at least once before?? Maybe this
is one of those topics that have to be rehashed on a regular basis. I think
that the rules were created to avoid having these discussions.
Oskar
Paperport OneTouch/Paint Shop Pro v.5
Hmmm, maybe warnings should be issued to people who ignore reading the
rules...
----- Original Message not snipped-----
From: Darcy Gunnlaugson <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
> Errin et al;
>
> Roger is marginally off base here, albeit in character with our
gentleman's
> conduct. We do discourage attached picture files on this list. As this
was
> small pic, it was not the subject of a warning, however, small
infractions
> lead to larger ones when the smaller ones are overlooked. So, for future
> reference, please do not send attached files to the list. Rules are rules
> and we aim to enforce them. If in doubt, ask, or go to the rules page.
>
> Darcy
>
> Admin Team3S
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 24 13:10:31 1999
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From: "Oskar" <swede@pclink.com>
To: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>,
"Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
References: <01a501bf06c5$dff0fde0$cf5135d1@pentiumt>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Picture Files
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:08:10 -0500
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> I must correct an error I just made. We DO allow small picture files.
Roger
> is right, I am wrong. It just goes to show how one "thinks" as to opposed
> how things really are (see rules).
Well, I guess that's allowed on a Friday afternoon. Maybe Happy Hour has
already started up there in Canada... :)
Oskar
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 24 13:22:59 1999
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From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: "Oskar" <swede@pclink.com>,
"3/S Sirius Mailing List" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Warning was Team3S: Aircharger questions
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:20:56 -0700
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Hey Oskar;
A thousand appologies. I believe my last post covers this, but let me humble
myself some more. What can I say...I was walking in dense fog. I'll
flagilate myself before I retire. :-)
Darc
-----Original Message-----
From: Oskar <swede@pclink.com>
To: Darcy Gunnlaugson <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>; 3/S Sirius Mailing List
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: Warning was Team3S: Aircharger questions
>Ladies and Gentlemen,
>The following is quoted from house rule number 2: (as seen on
>http://www.3si.org/techlist.html )
>
>"When posting photo attachments, please keep the size down to around 30K
and
>limit yourself to two (2) pictures. If you have several images of interest
>to the entire list, either put them on a web page or ask if anyone on the
>list has web space where you may put them up."
>
>With this in mind I do not see wherein the "small infraction" lies. Darcy
>could you please elaborate. I was under the impression that I was actually
>performing a valuable service to the list members when posting this
picture.
>It was noted by Darcy, and you shall all know that I took care to ensure
>that the picture was not of offending size before sending it.
>
>Haven't we already covered this subject at least once before?? Maybe this
>is one of those topics that have to be rehashed on a regular basis. I
think
>that the rules were created to avoid having these discussions.
>
>Oskar
>Paperport OneTouch/Paint Shop Pro v.5
>
>Hmmm, maybe warnings should be issued to people who ignore reading the
>rules...
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Sep 24 13:32:34 1999
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Message-ID: <084401bf06cb$b96169c0$67e586cd@forrest.sirius.com>
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
To: "Oskar" <swede@pclink.com>, "Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Picture Files
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:29:12 -0700
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-----Original Message-----From: Oskar <swede@pclink.com>
>> I must correct an error I just made. We DO allow small picture
files.
>Roger
>> is right, I am wrong. It just goes to show how one "thinks" as to
opposed
>> how things really are (see rules).
>
>Well, I guess that's allowed on a Friday afternoon. Maybe Happy
Hour has
>already started up there in Canada... :)
We admins make mistakes too... We're just doin' the best we can!
And BTW, that's what "Canada" means in French..., "Happy Hour!" :-)
It's almost beer-thirty here in SF, too!
See, now I commited a violation too! (No chat allowed!)
I'll make it a legal post... Last call for Bay Area folks to join
the West Coast Gathering in Monterey this weekend. Email me
privately... I'm leaving SF at 8AM...
I'll go to my room now... :-( Enjoy the weekend, all! Where's my
Martini...
Oh, one more thing... (a picture insert!)
Forrest
Picture Attachments: