--
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Feb 1 10:55:46
1999
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From:
Chris Winkley <
cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
To:
"'Team3S'" <
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Team3S: DSM technical info CD
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:56:11 -0800
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Howdy folks...
I was fascinated
by a post last week (about a CD version of the 3S manuals,
with technical
bulletins), so I contacted the source. Here's some of his
response. I'm going
to order one of the CDs. I'll let you all know what it
looks like after I've
had a chance to look at it.
Looking forward...Chris
1995 Glacier
Pearl White VR4 (w/HKS Super Flo intake, HKS SBOV, Predator dry
cell battery,
bored and polished throttle body, Magnecore 8.5mm wires, HKS
double platinum
plugs gapped at .034", GReddy PRofec A boost controller,
GReddy turbo
timer, ATR downpipe and test pipe, GReddy catback exhaust,
Eibach 1"
drop progressive springs)
-----Original Message-----
From: Vineet
Singh [
mailto:a280z@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 1999 1:11 AM
To:
cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.comCc:
a280z@hotmail.comSubject: Re: DSM
technical info CD
Actually, I took the day off to scan ALL DAY today.
Since 9am till now
(3am) i've been scanning (and FINISHED 2 of
them)
1991 BODY repair manual (shows ALL structural
parts/seals/paint/etc)
1994 Dodge Stealth manual (covers ALL DS's)
1991
3000gt manual (covers 91-92 3k/DS cars)
1992-1996+ 3000gt manual (covers,
well you know :)
DSM technical manual (covers the T/E/L line, but applies to
the 3/s)
And whatever else will fit (if anything... these manuals are
HUGE! over
5000pages!. The T/E/L manuals weren't this thick!)
Just
got a USB HP scanner, and it does OK. Not as fast as I would like,
but this
one can detect paper jams unlike the scanner I used to scan the
DSM manuals.
It also has a better quality image, so the manuals will
turn out EVEN BETTER
than the T/E/L one.
The T/E/L manuals sell pretty well, dunno how these
will do, so for now,
they will ONLY BE AVAILABLE as a CD-R. If you happen to
have BOTH a 3/s
and a T/E/L, you can get BOTH CD's for $50, otherwise either
one
seperately is $35 (shipped priority express USPS)
I have had VERY
good feedback/comments on the T/E/L Cd, and believe that
this new 3/S CD
will be even better! Thanks for your interest!
Vineet Singh
DSM
Manuals on CD -
http://manualcd.dsm.org(you can get an
idea of what the 3/S CD will be like by checking out my
site) Thanks for
your interest! Please pass the word around :)
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Feb 1 14:58:30 1999
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From:
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Subject:
Re: Team3S: Budget fuel upgrade
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:44:02
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Thanks Wayne,
I got the same
adapter (I assume) but the problem is the stock cat-back is
about 1/4"
lower and 3/4" off to one side. It's just to far off to force
it
to fit. I recently ordered a 3" flex stainless section to
splice into the
DP. Hope it
works.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
-----Original Message-----
From:
TTurboAWD@aol.com <
TTurboAWD@aol.com>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
<
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date:
Sunday, January 31, 1999 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Budget fuel
upgrade
> Trent,
> ATR
supplied me with a flange for their dp to hook it to
>the stock cat-back.
I got it,with the dp, through Mike at
>Altered Atmosphere
Motorsports.
>
Wayne 3SI
#87
>
'91 Stealth TT
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Feb 1 14:58:34 1999
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Subject:
Re: Team3S: Detonation
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Errin H. inquired as to which turbos I
was using for the symtoms I described
earlier in some detail. I was
running the 9B's at that time. The symtoms
with the 13g's at 1.1bar,
prior to injectors was similar but in addition, I
started getting some fuel
cut. I guessed that the knock conditions had
gotten worse as a result
of the 13g's pushing a lot more air than the 9B's,
forcing the ECU to respond
with more drastic measures. It was at this point
that I decided to turn
down the boost to 7psi until I got the new RC's
in.
Regards
DaveT/92TT
Errin wrote:
>When you noticed
this acceleration drop-off "when going from 1.0 bar
>to 1.1 bar"
was this with the 13G's or the 9B's?
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Feb 1 15:37:02 1999
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Date:
Mon, 01 Feb 1999 18:36:29 +0000
From: "J. Stephen Gula" <
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stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.comSubject:
Team3S: Brake Pads, rotors, exhaust, boredom
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Hey guys,
Was wondering a few things
since after owning my 95 3000GT for over a
year now (and about 13,000
miles)... the car is breaking down... so a
few recommendations if you
please:
(1) What kind of brake pads do you recommend? I've heard KVR
Carbon
Fibre pads are good, but they cause the rims to get prematurely
dirty
(compared to stock pads), which doesn't bother me. I bought
Purple
Power..
(2) Aftermarket clutch.. I don't have a superperformance
234345234hp
car.. I'm a measely NT w/ maybe 230hp right now. I want a cheap
(what
for our cars _is_ cheap?) but _good_ clutch. I've seen some
from
$250-$350 but don't know the difference.
(3) Brake rotors... ya,
they're going too... I'm not what you call a
light driver.. and I'm
intelligent enough to hose down the car after a
good long drive... hahaha
man.. lesson lived.. lesson learned...
(4) Aftermarket VR-4 exhaust on an
NT... whaddya say? Considering the
cost to have one _made_ or the $800 for a
Borla.... I'd rather slap a
VR-4 one on... what hazards am I risking or power
losses/gains? The way
I see it, if I match it with an openair filter, i'll
still lose lower
rpm power... but i'll gain in the high end (my normal
driving usually
doesn't involve stopping and having to go from stop to start
and i'm not
one for street races... well.. if you don't really try.. it's not
a race
right? whether you won or not?.. eheheh
--Steve
"Loco3KGT" Gula
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Feb 1 15:48:28 1999
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To:
"
'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'"
<
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Brake Pads, rotors, exhaust, boredom
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999
15:48:53 -0800
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-----Original Message-----
From: J.
Stephen Gula [
mailto:altoloco@widomaker.com]
Sent:
Monday, February 01, 1999 10:36 AM
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.comSubject:
Team3S: Brake Pads, rotors, exhaust, boredom
Hey guys,
Was
wondering a few things since after owning my 95 3000GT for over
a
year now
(and about 13,000 miles)... the car is breaking down... so a
few
recommendations if you please:
<snip>
--Steve "Loco3KGT"
Gula
=============================================
Steve...
If
you're not running on the track, I'd stick with stock rotors, brake pads,
and
clutch. Mitsu really did a very good job for "normal" street and
highway
driving. BTW...even if you warped the rotors with water while they
were hot,
you should be able to have them turned. Maybe $20/rotor if you've
already
got the wheels and calipers off.
Perhaps Rich LeRoy will
volunteer on the VR4 exhaust on a NT, that's what he
has.
Looking
forward...Chris
1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/HKS Super Flo intake, HKS
SBOV, Predator dry
cell battery, bored and polished throttle body, Magnecore
8.5mm wires, HKS
double platinum plugs gapped at .034", GReddy PRofec A
boost controller,
GReddy turbo timer, ATR downpipe and test pipe, GReddy
catback exhaust,
Eibach 1" drop progressive springs)
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Feb 1 16:06:29 1999
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From: "J. Stephen Gula" <
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Re: Team3S: Brake Pads, rotors, exhaust, boredom
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> If you're not running on the track,
I'd stick with stock rotors, brake pads,
> and clutch. Mitsu really did a
very good job for "normal" street and highway
> driving.
BTW...even if you warped the rotors with water while they were hot,
> you
should be able to have them turned. Maybe $20/rotor if you've already
>
got the wheels and calipers off.
That's the funny part.. they _have_ to
be replaced.. the rotors are
warped the pads are wearing down and the clutch
is slipping.. life is
grand.. get a helmet..
--Steve
"Loco3KGT" Gula
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
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Re: Team3S: Brake Pads, rotors, exhaust, boredom
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> (4)
Aftermarket VR-4 exhaust on an NT... whaddya say? Considering the
> cost
to have one _made_ or the $800 for a Borla.... I'd rather slap a
> VR-4
one on... what hazards am I risking or power losses/gains? The way
> I see
it, if I match it with an openair filter, i'll still lose lower
> rpm
power... but i'll gain in the high end (my normal driving usually
>
doesn't involve stopping and having to go from stop to start and i'm not
>
one for street races... well.. if you don't really try.. it's not a race
>
right? whether you won or not?.. eheheh
I can add that a 93 VR-4 exhaust
wouldn't bolt right up to my Stealth
R/T. I used the 3" pipe from the
converter, and had the rest fabricated,
namely a y that is 2 1/2" that
goes out to 2 dual chrome ansa tips.
total cost-400 bucks installed. It is
loud!!! Borderline illegal loud,
but sounds very good and does give the high
end power you are seeking.
You will lose low end torque, no doubt, but the
kick in the seat from
4000 rpm up is very noticeable!! And you get better gas
mileage!!! What
else could you ask for?
Matt
3/Si #311
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
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From:
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rcoxe@erols.com>
To: <
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Brake Pads, rotors, exhaust, boredom
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999
20:32:00 -0500
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Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Steve,
Sorry to hear that you are
now in the maintenance cycle that comes with all
cars.
I'm sure you
remember that we both have the same cars, I currently have 33K
on mine.
So
I have not had to do all of these repairs yet, but I have been thinking
about
it some. :)
> (1) What kind of brake pads do you recommend?
I
like the Stillen metal matrix pads. They are very clean and the car stops
a
lot better than
the stock pads.
> (2) Aftermarket clutch..
I
think the stock clutch is the best way to go. We don't make that much
power
to need the ACT2600 or
similar. The stock is a good compromise.
>
(3) Brake rotors...
I have the Stillen cross drilled and they have
performed quite well. I
warped the stock rotors twice
before replacing
them. The power slot rotors also look nice, I may put them
on the
eclipse.
> (4) Aftermarket VR-4 exhaust on an NT... whaddya
say?
I think the weight and the complexity of the active exhaust
componets make
this a less apealing
solution.
I would recommend the 60
mm diameter HKS VR4 first and then the Borla as my
second choice.
I have
not done the exhaust upgrade as I was waiting on headers from Brian
at GT
Alley, but we
all know that story.
I'm very surprised that the stock
is worn out. I would ask your dealer to
take a look at it. The SS
system
should out last the car.
- Russ Coxe
1995 3000GT MD
"3KGT"
1995 Eclipse GSX-AT
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Feb 1 18:58:58 1999
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To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.comSubject:
Team3S: TT Exhaust on an NT Car (Was: Brake Pads, rotors, exhaust,
boredom)
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Wow, a NT thread .... I think I'll add
to it. :) The TT exhaust *does*
directly bolt up (I have a TT
exhaust from James R.'s 92 R/T TT on my 94
R/T), but the fit isn't
perfect. I think this is what Matt is alluding
to.
The NT
cars have a lower positioned lower arm bracket than the TT's do,
such that
the rear exhaust section tends to bump into it when you hit a
bump in the
road. This can be offset to a degree by not fully seating
the yoke into
the 3" center straight section. There *is* about an inch
of play
before you get a leak at this joint, but you have to go easy,
and the darn
thing is heavy unless you have helpers. Another "trick" I
had
to use was to not tighten the cat crossmember (but had bolted the
exhaust
sections together) until I had pulled the entire exhaust
rearward enough to
clear the lower suspension arm bracket and bolted up
the rear-most
hangers. There is *just* enough play in the system to
pull this off,
but that's it.
All in all, the TT exhaust is a fairly low-cost
"mod", in that the mid
and upper range response is immediately
noticeably improved, but at the
cost of some low end response. The fact
that it just sounds bitchin' is
a plus in my book. Actual dollar cost
was about $20 for the additional
passenger-side hangers I didn't originally
have. The exhaust was a
freebie, but I've heard some folks have paid up
to $100 to TT owners who
were upgrading to aftermarket. Still cheap,
IMO.
After saying all this, when I get the discretionary kopeks for the
car,
a fully custom exhaust is going on the car ... strictly for
off-road
use, of course. This was a quickie poor-man's solution to
wanting dual
exhaust without paying through the nose for it. The
improved
performance, sound and mileage were gravy and certainly worth
the
scraped knuckles and achey back.
Rich
Michael Booker
wrote:
>
> > (4)
Aftermarket VR-4 exhaust on an NT... whaddya say?
<snip>
> I can add that a 93 VR-4 exhaust wouldn't bolt
right up to my Stealth
> R/T. I used the 3" pipe from the converter,
and had the rest fabricated,
> namely a y that is 2 1/2" that goes
out to 2 dual chrome ansa tips.
> total cost-400 bucks installed. It is
loud!!! Borderline illegal loud,
> but sounds very good and does give the
high end power you are seeking.
> You will lose low end torque, no doubt,
but the kick in the seat from
> 4000 rpm up is very noticeable!! And you
get better gas mileage!!! What
> else could you ask for?
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
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To:
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Re: Team3S: Brake Pads, rotors, exhaust, boredom
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"J. Stephen Gula"
wrote:
Why don't I just make you a deal on mine? Then you can have
the horsepower, too?
I'd just stick with stock if I were you. Of
course, I don't know how you drive, but I
would think the brakes might help,
but at 57k miles, I'm only on set 2 of the front
pads, and original
rears. Good bang for buck.
Exhaust? Hmm, I'm not sure I'd do
that heavy TT one, I think I'd find a muffler shop
that'll do one for
you. Just MHO. Naturally that files in the face of what I
did,
but...
Kermit
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
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From: "J. Stephen Gula" <
altoloco@widomaker.com>
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Re: Team3S: Brake Pads, rotors, exhaust, boredom
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> I like the Stillen metal matrix
pads. They are very clean and the car stops
> a lot better than
>
the stock pads.
I'll keep that in mind when i get prices on the Carbon
Fibre pads (i
have a thing for Carbon fibre..)
> I think the stock
clutch is the best way to go. We don't make that much
> power to need the
ACT2600 or
> similar. The stock is a good compromise.
My thought's
exactly. _BUT_ the questions is how _much_ is the stock
clutch compared to an
aftermarket clutch and what kind of/if any
difference is there in
weight?
> before replacing them. The power slot rotors also look nice,
I may put them
> on the eclipse.
I've heard the slotted ones cause
more wear'n'tear than crossdrilled but
personally, i don't think the slotted
look as good.
> I think the weight and the complexity of the active
exhaust componets make
> this a less apealing solution.
Agreed.
Although it would be a cheap way to go, I'm not planning on
using my next
exhaust as a temp (like Rich L.) cause (a) I don't have
open access to a VR-4
exhaust and (b) i'd rather have a muffler shop
price me and give me what _I_
want.
> I would recommend the 60 mm diameter HKS VR4 first and then
the Borla as my
> second choice.
The HKS I like only cause of the
exhaust tips (I'm for the big but
skinny <when comparing outer diameter to
inner diameter of the tip
itself> unlike the ones on Parham's Sabetazm's
car. His look great, but
they remind me of the Neons/Honda's around here..
<sorry Parham>)
> I have not done the exhaust upgrade as I was
waiting on headers from Brian
> at GT Alley, but we
> all know that
story.
To Brian : What comes around goes around. I can only hope
your
punishment is severe.
> I'm very surprised that the stock is
worn out. I would ask your dealer to
> take a look at it. The SS system
should out last the car.
Elaborate on "SS."
Thanks for
all the insight.
--Steve "Loco3KGT" Gula
sidenote : I'm
working on watercooling my CPU (science fair) and then
using a peltier
cooler.. I'm expecting overclocking my AMD K6-2 300 to
450 w/o any probs. And
my mainboard should be able to get me to 550 _if_
i can cool the entire case
and not just the CPU. Any suggestions on how
to cool the entire case? Fans
are _not_ an option, i've exhausted that
idea (4 current 80mm fans with 1
more still to go in if I get bored).
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
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Re: Team3S: Brake Pads, rotors, exhaust, boredom
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> The HKS I like only cause of the
exhaust tips (I'm for the big but
> skinny <when comparing outer
diameter to inner diameter of the tip
> itself> unlike the ones on
Parham's Sabetazm's car. His look great, but
> they remind me of the
Neons/Honda's around here.. <sorry Parham>)
Go to discount auto parts,
and find the resonated dual chrome tips that
are in boxes. The chrome ends
look very similar, and to the uninitiated,
just like stock, so you have the
low key effect. not only that, but as
on my R/T, I had to cut the back bumper
notch out, and because i didn't
paint the inner "lip" of the
cutout, the dual tips were the only ones
that filled that notch
up.
Matt
3/Si #311
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
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Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999
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Subject: Team3S: DIN PS -> SAE
HP
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Does anyone know how to convert DIN PS
to SAE HP? Is there a web page
with such information?
Thanx.
-Jim
P.S.- The dyno results were VERY, VERY
interesting. We will publish to
the web and post a summary
soon.
--
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden,
Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps
ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
*** 3000GT-Stealth
International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94
Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension,
Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 70/84%
BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark
plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix brake pads, custom braided
brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, TS (so far): 166mph
G-Tech
Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
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From
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From: "Gross,
Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
To:
"'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Brake Pads,
rotors, exhaust, boredom
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:54:19 -0800
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stealth-3000gt
-----Original Message-----
From: J. Stephen Gula
[mailto:altoloco@widomaker.com]
Subject: Re: Team3S: Brake Pads, rotors,
exhaust, boredom
_BUT_ the questions is how _much_ is the
stock
clutch compared to an aftermarket clutch and what kind of/if
any
difference is there in weight?
-----End of Original
Message-----
Ok, as for the stock clutch, I just replaced mine
and went through that
decision process, so here's the numbers I got (my
dealer here doesn't give a
3SI discount)
Stock clutch:
Disc
$70
Pressure Plate $70
t/o bearing
$20
total.............$160
Centerforce DF
$429
(@nexus)
Labor to install new clutch:
$550 (aprox. at
dealer)
The general consensus among the lists (Team3S, starnet, dragnet)
seemed to
be that if you're staying under 250HP, then you really don't need
anything
more than the stock clutch, and if you get an aftermarket one, you'd
be
making it more "binary" and thus more of a pain in the a#$ to
drive normally
(when you don't want to give your passenger - or God forbid a
date:) -
whiplash. Hehe, hey baby, check this out- I can go from 0 to
whiplash in
1.7ms! Wait! You can't get out now- we haven't even
gotten to the
restaurant
yet!
--Erik
------
----------
Erik
Gross
DuPont, WA
'95 Pearl White 3000GT 47k mi - resonatorless + bald tire
mod
------
----------
"Without somehow destroying me in the process,
how could
God reveal Himself in a way that would leave no
room for
doubt? If there were no room for doubt,
there would be
no room for
me."
--Frederick
Buechner
-------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original
Message-----
From: J. Stephen Gula
[mailto:altoloco@widomaker.com]
Subject: Re: Team3S: Brake Pads, rotors,
exhaust, boredom
sidenote : I'm working on watercooling my CPU (science
fair) and then
using a peltier cooler.. I'm expecting overclocking my AMD
K6-2 300 to
450 w/o any probs. And my mainboard should be able to get me to
550 _if_
i can cool the entire case and not just the CPU. Any suggestions on
how
to cool the entire case? Fans are _not_ an option, i've exhausted
that
idea (4 current 80mm fans with 1 more still to go in if I get
bored).
-----End of Original Message-----
And on the side
note: You're overclocking your CPU! Don't you know
that
overclocking is the invention of SATAN? Bad! Bad! Bad!
No, just kidding:)
Be careful on water-cooling your CPU, though- Although I'm
sure you know to
take extra precautions to contain the cooling water, but you
also have to be
concerned with condensation (that can really trash a
CPU). Also, even with
cooling the case (BTW, take the side panel of a
Supermicro SC750A case off
and sit a 14" mainframe fan beside the tower
to cool it:) and cooling the
CPU's heatsink, you'll only be operating with
the lower end of the
temperature differential at room temp, at best. To
get the insane speeds
you see at trade shows (and like 550 out of a 300), you
need a refrigeration
unit. And secondly, the temperature you really
need to be concerned about
is the junction temperature of the transistors on
the CPU die, not the temp
on the case or heatsink. I don't know where
AMD takes their core
temperature readings (if they even have a temp
monitor??), but watch the
core temp when overclocking!
Here's my
overclocking experience:
Processor (rated speed)
1)
Pentium 100 ( 66 MHz FSB, 1.5 multiplier = 100MHz core) PASS
Pentium 100 ( 66 MHz FSB, 2.0 multiplier = 133MHz core) FAIL
Pentium 100 ( 60 MHz FSB, 2.0 multiplier = 120MHz core)
PASS
2) Pentium 166 ( 66 MHz FSB, 2.5 multiplier = 166MHz
core) PASS
Pentium 166 ( 66 MHz FSB, 3.0 multiplier = 200MHz
core) FAIL
3) Pentium 166 MMX ( 66 MHz FSB, 2.5 multiplier =
166MHz core) PASS
Pentium 166 MMX ( 66 MHz FSB, 3.0 multiplier =
200MHz core) FAIL
Pentium 166 MMX ( 75 MHz FSB, 2.5 multiplier =
188MHz core) PASS
4) Pentium 200 MMX ( 66 MHz FSB, 3.0 multiplier =
200MHz core) PASS
Pentium 200 MMX ( 66 MHz FSB, 3.5
multiplier = 233MHz core) FAIL
Pentium 200 MMX ( 75 MHz
FSB, 3.0 multiplier = 225MHz core) PASS
5) Pentium II 266 ( 66 MHz FSB, 4.0
multiplier = 266MHz core)
PASS
Pentium II 266 ( 66 MHz FSB,
4.5 multiplier = 300MHz core)
PASS
Pentium II 266 ( 66 MHz
FSB, 5.0 multiplier = 333MHz core)
FAIL
Pentium II 266 ( 75
MHz FSB, 3.5 multiplier = 263MHz core)
PASS
Pentium II 266 (
75 MHz FSB, 4.0 multiplier = 300MHz core)
PASS
Pentium II 266
( 75 MHz FSB, 4.5 multiplier = 338MHz core)
FAIL
6) Pentium II 400 (100
MHz FSB, 4.0 multiplier = 400MHz core)
PASS
Pentium II 400
(100 MHz FSB, 4.5 multiplier = 450MHz core)
FAIL
7) Pentium II XEON 400
(100 MHz FSB, 4.0 multiplier = 400MHz core) PASS
Pentium II XEON
400 (100 MHz FSB, 4.5 multiplier = 450MHz core) FAIL
8) Pentium II XEON 400
(100 MHz FSB, 4.0 multiplier = 400MHz core) PASS
Pentium II XEON
400 (100 MHz FSB, 4.5 multiplier = 450MHz core) PASS
Pentium II
XEON 400 (100 MHz FSB, 5.0 multiplier = 500MHz core) FAIL
My definition
of PASS is that the system runs reliably for at least a month.
FAIL means it
either wouldn't boot or it had unexpected crashes or BSODs.
Also, my cooling
consisted of a huge tower case and somewhere between 4 and
10 fans as
necessary.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
**
Unless otherwise specified, all opinions and views expressed in this
message are not endorsed, sponsored, provided, or on behalf of Intel.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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Subject: Re: Team3S: DIN PS -> SAE
HP
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<36B741CD.67C5C94A@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
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Matthews wrote:
>
> Does anyone know how to
convert DIN PS to SAE HP? Is there a web page
> with such
information? Thanx.
I think I found it. Please let me know if
these are incorrect:
DIN PS = kW * 1.36
SAE HP
= DIN PS * 1.123
lb-ft = Nm *
.738
-Jim
--
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden,
Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps
ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
*** 3000GT-Stealth
International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94
Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension,
Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 70/84%
BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark
plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix brake pads, custom braided
brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, TS (so far): 166mph
G-Tech
Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 13:39:18 -0600
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From: Wayne
<wala@hypertech-inc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Front VR-4
calipers
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O.K. I decided to go ahead and get them from Autozone.
They had them for
$91 total, including the core charge. They look like a
quality rebuild, and
they are the 4 piston models (which i doubted when i
placed the order).
They also have the standard Autozone lifetime warranty. So
now i have 2
leaking calipers to use as cores when i get to that point on my
240Z
project. ; ) So, if anybody needs front calipers for thier VR-4,
(and you
are poor like me) Autozone is the place to get them. FYI; the next
price
bracket was $129, from the dealer.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Feb 2 12:50:25 1999
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From: "Bob Fontana"
<bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
To: "3000/Stealth Technical
List" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Timing
belt slippage
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:49:55 -0500
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Replaced my timing belt and tensioner last weekend after
noticing that the
belt was extremely loose. The cuts on my hands
haven't even healed yet and
today when I checked the new belt, it's loose
too!
We used the "special tool" used to push the tensioner
pulley against the
belt (10 Nm, I think), tightened the center bolt (42
ft-lbs, I think) and
rotated the crank 4 times using the other (hunk-o-metal)
special tool.
Waited 5 or 10 minutes and checked the autotensioner
clearance. Within spec
(3.8-4.5MM, I think). Checked all the
timing marks and they were perfect.
As a sidebar, we did notice that the
book calls for turning the crank one
tooth counterclockwise from TDC to, as
Mitsubishi puts it, "facilitate the
installation of the
belt." When we did it that way, we ended up being a
tooth off
every time. After 3 or 4 attempts at this, we put the crank at
TDC and
sure enough, it ended up being right on. All 5 marks lined up.
Now,
before you say "it must be the tensioner" remember that it's only
a
week old and we tested it before using it.
Questions:
1) My
understanding of the tensioner, high-tech as it is, is that the
tensioning
rod should resist being pushed in. The same rod, however, should
pop
out if there's no tension on it. This could be important. I
noticed
that both the old and new tensioner rods popped out with little
provocation.
Is this right?
2) Both times that the timing belt came
loose occured after plenty of
driving with the "street" VPC
EPROM. The timing belt showed no sign of
looseness just before
switching to the "race" EPROM which has some serious
deceleration
which is not present in the street version. The amount of
deceleration
is dependent on my "Response" setting. The more I turn
the
knob up, the more acceleration I get on the upside but the more
deceleration
I get on the downside of the RPM curve. This phenomena is
documented by
HKS. Is it possible that such rapid deceleration is
causing the tensioner
pulley center bolt to come loose?
3) Other than
a bad tensioner (which I refuse to believe), has anyone ever
had a timing
belt come untensioned by a bolt backing out?
-Bob
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Feb 2 13:04:03 1999
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Same time next sunday bob
8)
Xannieria 8)
3SI #130
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: DIN PS -> SAE
HP
References:
<36B741CD.67C5C94A@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
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Look for a program called
OmiCon 98.. It converts
EVERYTHING known to man to EVERYTHING known to man.. exactly, I
was
absolutely impressed by it. Yes it does all work conversion I have ever
heard of
and then some.
I have a BS in Physics UCSD so I've heard a
few!
Matthews wrote:
> Does anyone know how to convert DIN PS
to SAE HP? Is there a web page
> with such information?
Thanx.
>
>
-Jim
>
> P.S.- The dyno results were VERY, VERY interesting.
We will publish to
> the web and post a summary soon.
>
>
--
> Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
>
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps ISDN)
>
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
>
> *** 3000GT-Stealth
International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
>
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
> Jet Black '94
Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
> Adjustable Active Suspension,
Adjustable Exhaust System
> K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @
70/84% BADC)
> A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
>
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
> Metal Matrix brake
pads, custom braided brake lines
> Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, TS
(so far): 166mph
> G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9
mph
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
--
Andrew Brilliant
Senior
Progammer/Team Council
Internet Database Development Team
Attitude Ink,
Inc.
http://www.attitudeink.com/
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999
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From: Ricardo Cousar
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Subject: Team3S: Mods and True
gains
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I am writing this post because allot of us are being
mislead by claims
from parts manufactures. K&N claims that by adding
their product your
car will get about 15 extra hp.. This is wrong, the true
HP gain from a
K&N filter is 2 hp. You might ask how do I know
this, I have seen 2
cars dyno'd. The first car was turbo charged and
the other was non
turbo.. The gain was the same. The other misconception is
that spark
plug wires give you more hp. This is wrong plug wires give 0 hp
all they
do is make sure you are getting the proper spark. The same
goes for
allot of other mobs but I am trying to keep it short.
I
know this issue will be debated and I welcome it.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Feb 2 15:08:43 1999
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From: Kenneth Wells
<k.wells@morganbanks.co.nz>
To:
"stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Mods and True
gains
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:07:00 +1300
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I had heard similar... What I believe is that while it
doesn't increase
the peak of the power curve, it moves/alters
the curve, giving the
feeling of more peak hp.
I think this
has been confirmed by some dyno sessions.
Kenneth W
'91 GTO
TwinTurbo
-----Original Message-----
From: Ricardo Cousar
[SMTP:rcousar@uswest.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 3:46 PM
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com; Kenneth Wells
Subject: Team3S: Mods and True
gains
I am writing this post because allot of us are
being mislead by claims
from parts manufactures. K&N claims that by
adding their product your
car will get about 15 extra hp.. This is wrong, the
true HP gain from a
K&N filter is 2 hp. You might ask how do I know
this, I have seen 2
cars dyno'd. The first car was turbo charged and
the other was non
turbo.. The gain was the same. The other misconception is
that spark
plug wires give you more hp. This is wrong plug wires give 0 hp
all they
do is make sure you are getting the proper spark. The same
goes for
allot of other mobs but I am trying to keep it short.
I
know this issue will be debated and I welcome it.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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From:
Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
To:
"'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Mods and True
gains
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:30:19 -0800
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-----Original Message-----
From: Ricardo Cousar
[mailto:rcousar@uswest.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 2:46 PM
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Mods and True gains
I
am writing this post because allot of us are being mislead by claims
from
parts manufactures. K&N claims that by adding their product your
car will
get about 15 extra hp.. This is wrong, the true HP gain from a
K&N filter
is 2 hp. You might ask how do I know this, I have seen 2
cars dyno'd.
The first car was turbo charged and the other was non
turbo.. The gain was
the same. The other misconception is that spark
plug wires give you more hp.
This is wrong plug wires give 0 hp all they
do is make sure you are getting
the proper spark. The same goes for
allot of other mobs but I am
trying to keep it short.
I know this issue will be debated and I welcome
it.
=====================================
Richard...
I'm not
interested in a debate, but I'm willing to make an observation:
Advertising can be misleading and may be intentionally so on occasion.
I
haven't seen the specific K&N advertisement to which you refer, but
most
product ads are purposefully vague, stating something like: "gains
of up to
xxx hp". If you stop to consider mathematics and the English
language, their
claim is likely to be true. If, for example, K&N claimed
"up to a 15hp
gain", your measured 2hp gain is indeed within the
natural number confines
of zero and fifteen. The same would be true if they
said "up to a 10% hp
increase", which would be true from zero to
20hp on a 200hp engine. The only
way it could be false is if their product
restricted air flow (over the
factory unit) and caused a hp
decrease.
In your example of spark plug wires, it could be said that they
"allow" hp
increases. A 22awg wire will not carry the voltage or
amperage required to
produce the spark needed to effectively ignite gasoline
in an internal
combustion engine. A set of 8.5mm Magnecore wires would
definitely allow a
hp increase over a 22awg wire. Wires don't create
horsepower, neither does
an intake, or an exhaust. However, the optimal
combination of these (and
many other) factors is what making modifications to
a factory system is all
about.
I believe I understand what you're
attempting to say, and it's been said
many times before:
"Let the
buyer beware"
BTW...several of us (I don't know about "a
lot") are measuring performance
increases based on 1/4 mile times, not
on advertisements. It's one of the
reasons that we're eagerly awaiting the
results from the European trio who
just dyno'd their cars (we don't have AWD
dynos here in the States, at least
none in Oregon).
Looking
forward...Chris
1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/HKS Super Flo intake, HKS
SBOV, Predator dry
cell battery, bored and polished throttle body, Magnecore
8.5mm wires, HKS
double platinum plugs gapped at .034", GReddy PRofec A
boost controller,
GReddy turbo timer, ATR downpipe and test pipe, GReddy
catback exhaust,
Eibach 1" drop progressive springs)
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Feb 2 17:11:34 1999
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Date: Wed, 03
Feb 1999 17:05:14 -0800
From: "Errin D. Humphrey"
<errin@u.washington.edu>
Organization: University of
Washington
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Subject: Re:
Team3S: Detonation (stock turbos)
References:
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stealth-3000gt
I wrote:
> > That reminds me, I'm still
curious as to whether the GTO twin turbos
> > in Japan have 9B's like
here in the States or 13G's like in Europe. All
> > that the
Japanese magazines ever mention is that they are TD04's.
"R.G."
responded:
> Yes, also on my 13Gs the TD04 is on the case. But the
stamped number is what
> counts and it shows the 13G sign :)
Roger,
I don't quite follow what you are saying. Are you saying that
you
~know~ that the compressor in the Japanese GTO's is a 13G? That
was
my original question: Is the compressor wheel in the Japanese GTO's
a
9B (like U.S.) or a 13G (like Europe)? In either case, TD04 should
be
on the housing, since a 13G still utilizes a TD04 housing. I think
you know
this. The only thing is that the Japanese magazines don't list
the compressor
size, only that the turbos are TD04, and I don't know anyone
in Japan
with a GTO.
--Errin Humphrey
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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From: "PHorschel"
<phorschel@utah-inter.net>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Timing belt
slippage
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:17:20 -0700
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Hello all,
First I would like to thank you for a great
list. Especially Roger G and
Errin H for their help with my new DSBC
and custom exhaust.
Bob,
I replaced my timing belt and tensioner about
3 months ago. I actually did
it again three times to see if I could get
the slack out. My original belt
was extremely loose too. Are you
noticing this looseness between the sets
of cams?
> Replaced my
timing belt and tensioner last weekend after noticing that the
> belt was
extremely loose. The cuts on my hands haven't even
> healed yet
and
> today when I checked the new belt, it's loose too!
I had the
same problem. I redid mine three times after totally putting
everything
back together and driving the car and then the next morning,
loose
again. So loose that I could pull up on it and the cam would slip
a
tooth.
> We used the "special tool" used to push the
tensioner pulley against the
> belt (10 Nm, I think), tightened the center
bolt (42 ft-lbs, I think) and
> rotated the crank 4 times using the other
(hunk-o-metal) special tool.
> Waited 5 or 10 minutes and checked the
autotensioner clearance.
> Within spec
> (3.8-4.5MM, I think).
Checked all the timing marks and they were perfect.
I couldn't purchase
the tool from the dealer so I made one out of a 2' piece
of 1/8"X1"
steel and two small high grade bolts.
> As a sidebar, we did notice
that the book calls for turning the crank one
> tooth counterclockwise
from TDC to, as Mitsubishi puts it, "facilitate the
> installation of
the belt." When we did it that way, we ended up being a
> tooth
off every time. After 3 or 4 attempts at this, we put the crank at
>
TDC and sure enough, it ended up being right on. All 5 marks lined
up.
>
> Now, before you say "it must be the tensioner"
remember that it's only a
> week old and we tested it before using
it.
>
> Questions:
>
> 1) My understanding of the
tensioner, high-tech as it is, is that the
> tensioning rod should resist
being pushed in. The same rod,
> however, should
> pop out if
there's no tension on it. This could be important. I noticed
>
that both the old and new tensioner rods popped out with little
>
provocation.
> Is this right?
The new and the old tensioners seemed
to act the same for me too. Both
seemed to have the same amount of
spring to them. Very stiff.
> 2) Both times that the timing belt
came loose occurred after plenty of
> driving with the "street"
VPC EPROM. The timing belt showed no sign of
> looseness just before
switching to the "race" EPROM which has some serious
>
deceleration which is not present in the street version. The amount
of
> deceleration is dependent on my "Response" setting.
The more I turn the
> knob up, the more acceleration I get on the upside
but the more
> deceleration
> I get on the downside of the RPM
curve. This phenomena is documented by
> HKS. Is it possible
that such rapid deceleration is causing the tensioner
> pulley center bolt
to come loose?
Don't know anything about the affects of the EPROM.
Did you check to see if
your cam bolt was loose. I believe there is an
access hole in the cover to
look at this. However, I don't think this
is your problem.
> 3) Other than a bad tensioner (which I refuse to
believe), has anyone ever
> had a timing belt come untensioned by a bolt
backing out?
If the bolt on the cam that tensioner gets loose then your
belt will
defiantly become loose also. Are you rotating the cam(with
the special
tool) clockwise and then tightening the bolt?
BTW-I asked
Brian at the GT Alley about loose timing belts and he said this
was
normal.
My belt was coming loose because after you pull the pin(I used an
allen
wrench) out of the tensioner the cams are spring loaded off of the
valves in
a way where they want to turn to where it causes slack between
them.
Therefore it causes the tensioner to go in farther. When your
belt is loose
you should try to see if you can get the pin back in.
When I took it apart
the last time I put a wrench on the cam closest to the
front of the car and
one on the crankshaft pulley and turned them opposite
from each other(cam
counter clockwise and crankshaft clockwise), to get rid
of any slack, while
someone else used the tool and rotated the cam tensioner
and tightened the
bolt on it. We then pulled the pin out and tested it
according to the
manual and the distance on the tensioner was within
specs. Drove the car
around and it was loose again. This time you
could barely wiggle it. I
have been driving the car like this for about
10K and have had no problems.
-Paul Horschel
93 VR4 Blitz DSBC/FATT,
K&N FIPK
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Feb 2 17:28:58 1999
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From:
"Bill" <compren@lightspeed.net>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Mods and True
gains
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:31:16 -0800
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Sames deal, only one reply to keep this
thread short...
1st. You don't have to generate horsepower to
improve the performace of
your car. (Lose weight, reduce drag, etc.)
2nd.
Simply by reducing response time, reducing turbo lag may not increase
HP, but
it will win races. I beleive K&N helps here, but who
knows?
3rd. You talk about Dyno #'s, problem is they're not comparible
to any
other cars that have any different mods. The # of HP gained with
a K&N on
an otherwise stock car is not going to be the same as one that
has "The
Works"
4th. If a tuneup can "Create" or at
least "regain" horsepower, most people
who add new plug wires will
see an improvement, not over stock, but over
current condition. (I
belive most people here use Magnecor and they go out
of their way to say they
aren't increasing your HP, over and over
again...)
-Bill
>Subject: Team3S: Mods and True
gains
>
>I am writing this post because allot of us are being
mislead by claims
>from parts manufactures. K&N claims that by adding
their product your
>car will get about 15 extra hp..
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Feb 2 19:41:31 1999
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From: "Barry E. King"
<beking@home.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Timing belt
slippage
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:41:44 -0700
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Bob,
A certain amount of static belt deflection
(ie, when the engine is not
running) is normal. The cams at rest will
tend to roll one way or the other
creating a certain amount of
"looseness" depending upon where you are
detecting it and the
direction the cams happened to come to rest in relation
to each
other.
If the belt is flopping around though then I'd say there was a
problem ;)
Regards,
Barry
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Steve;
Don't know if anyone got back to you on your
query...hopefully someone posted
privately. If that occurs, please note it
here.
My educated guess is somewhat in synch with what you
surmise...possibly a mixing
of numbers in reassembly. There's a 50% chance
this is right. Mayhap we'll get an
educated response now, to
educated guessing :-)
Good luck
Best
Darc
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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Bob,
I had an experience similar to yours after
having my timing belt replaced at
57000 mi. Belt, tensioner, and water pump
were replaced. About 3000 mi. after
the replacement, I took the belt
cover off to visually check the belt and
found it to be so loose that I could
spin the water pump with my finger. I
had the car towed down to the
dealer that had done the work.
They checked the car over and said
that the belt was normal. They explained
that, depending on the
position of the valves when the engine stopped, the
force of the valve
springs was great enough to rotate the inboard cams in
opposite directions
and overcome the 40-60 lbs of belt tension. This results
in slack in
the belt between the cam pulleys when it is at rest. When
the
engine is started, the valve spring tension is overcome and the timing
belt is
uniformly tight.
They demonstrated by cranking the engine
several times. Sometimes the belt
was loose and sometimes it was tight
between the inboard cam shaft pulleys
when the engine came to rest.
I
was doubtful, but didn't have any better ideas, and I drove off. I
have
since put 8000 additional mi. on the car with no problems. The
"loose" belt
at rest seems to be a normal
condition.
Rick
______________________
In
a message dated 2/2/99 12:52:27 PM Pacific Standard
Time,
bfontana@securitytechnologies.com writes:
> Replaced my
timing belt and tensioner last weekend after noticing that the
>
belt was extremely loose. The cuts on my hands haven't even healed yet
and
> today when I checked the new belt, it's loose
too!
>
> <snip>
>
>
Now, before you say "it must be the tensioner" remember that it's only
a
> week old and we tested it before using it.
>
> <snip>
>
> -Bob
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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Date:
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From: Matthews
<matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
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To: Team 3S Tech List
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Subject: Team3S: Re: dyno results?
(breath holding)
References:
<018b01be4990$c74d4200$75f286cd@BobForrest>
<36B726D3.6093A24F@swissonline.ch>
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wce@bc.sympatico.ca wrote:
>
> Roger, Jim and
Mikael;
>
> Are you 3 gonna keep us holding our breath about your
dyno results??
> I for one (and likely Chris, Rich and Bob for 2, 3 and 4)
would sure
> like to know your general take on the results. I can wait for
the
> technical comparative results you are likely to post to the
list,
> but darn, I cann't hold my breath much longer
:-)
Darc,
First of all, Mikael unfortunately could not join us since
Sweden is a
bit too far away. He may be visiting Roger later this year
and perhaps
they can run some sessions then. This time it was Roger,
Mike Chapleski
(Frankfurt, Ger.) and I who went. We are still trying to
verify our
conversion factors and rescale the charts for the three cars so
that
they can be overlayed properly, but I think we will have something
out
later this week. For now, take a look at the last line in my
signature
for a hint and at my Stealth web page for information on my
particular
run. Again, while the DIN PS and torque values are
absolutely correct,
I am not 100% sure about the DIN PS to SAE HP conversion
(I found the
factor on a web page and it seems correct for cars that have
both values
listed), so that value might change.
Enjoy!
-Jim
--
Matthews - Wiesbaden,
Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps
ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
*** 3000GT-Stealth
International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94
Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension,
Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72%
BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark
plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix brake pads, custom braided
brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech
Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE
HP, 354 lb-ft torque
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Ricardo Cousar wrote:
>
> I am writing this
post because allot of us are being mislead by claims
> from parts
manufactures. K&N claims that by adding their product your
> car will
get about 15 extra hp.. This is wrong, the true HP gain from a
> K&N
filter is 2 hp. You might ask how do I know this, I have seen 2
>
cars dyno'd. The first car was turbo charged and the other was non
>
turbo.. The gain was the same. The other misconception is that spark
>
plug wires give you more hp. This is wrong plug wires give 0 hp all they
>
do is make sure you are getting the proper spark. The same goes
for
> allot of other mobs but I am trying to keep it short.
>
I know this issue will be debated and I welcome it.
Ricardo,
I
myself have done a similar modification. I have a 94 VR4 with
89k
miles. The only mod I've done is a Weapon-R filter. I still
have the
original plugs and wires, meaning they have NEVER been
changed. I've
had 2 opportunities to run my car. My best time to
date was
13.36@102.54. I feel confident I could have run 13.2 or better
as I
spun excessively off the line. It was roughly 70 degrees and I
was
running pump gas. I consider my Weapon-R to be inferior to K&N
filters,
and I beleive those numbers are basically unheard of for little to
no
modifications on a VR4, especially if the mod was 2hp or less. I
also
doubt I'd be able to feel a 2hp difference like I feel this
mod,
considering also that a slight variation in temp, altitude,
and/or
humidity could count for 2hp or more. Keep in mind that it's
very
possible to gain 15hp without ever gaining any PEAK hp. If a given
car
is hitting 350hp at 4k rpms and 400hp at 7k rpms, it could gain up
to
50hp at 4k rpms without ever breaking 400hp peak.
My car also
suffers from slight stumbles in acceleration at times and
I'm most certain
that replacing my plugs and wires will fix this and
will further increase
it's performance.
Being skeptical isn't a bad thing, and it's quite
noble to try to
inform others. On the other hand, I think you may be
trying too hard to
find fault in advertising, and false advertising is
illegal. That's not
to say it doesn't happen, but it shouldn't be a
regular occurance or go
on for extended periods of time. Just don't
take their statements as
anything other than what they say, that's what
they're counting on.
Also don't try too hard to find fault in
statements. A person once told
me that you'll see what you expect to
see. If you expect to see false
claims, you may find fault in those
claims too easily, or when there
isn't truely any fault there.
I
think the K&N is probably the best filter on the market, most of
the
other nice ones are actually made by K&N. This would be
supported by
looking at the mods on the fastest cars, most run K&N.
If I could do it
again, I'd buy a K&N rather than falling for misleading,
presumptuous
info with not data to back it up. I'm happy with my cars
performance,
but I like to buy only the best if money isn't an options.
Being more
informed now, I could have the superior K&N (my opinion only)
for $4
more than what I paid for my Weapon-R. If anyone
reading this is
looking for an aftermarket filter, they can speak with Mike
at Altered
Atmosphere Motorsports to get in on a group discount, the details
can be
found at www.3000gt.com
Jason
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Feb 3 01:33:39 1999
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Subject: Re:
Team3S: Detonation (stock turbos)
References:
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Errin,
One of the list members living in the UK
just imported a japanese GTO but it is
not so easy to see the stamped number
on the front one. When he starts
installing his mods it's maybe worth looking
at the housings.
> In either case, TD04 should be on the housing,
since a 13G still utilizes
> a TD04 housing. I think you know
this.
Yes, I do. The UK and EU cars both have the 13G turbos, but as
mentioned we are
not sure about the GTOs as this is not verified.
>
I don't know anyone in Japan with a GTO.
I have an address but
unfortunately the guy is not speaken well English and my
Japanese ends at
"Sushi" :)
Maybe Behrooz will then be able to get the number
from his car.
Regards,
Roger
-----------------------
Roger
Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
Feb 3 02:27:32 1999
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From:
"Bob Fontana" <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
To:
"3000/Stealth Technical List"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Timing belt
slippage
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 05:27:03 -0500
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Thanks for the replies on the subject. I can't agree
that a loose timing
belt is normal. The idea that Mitsubishi would
design a motor that allows
the cams and crank to get even a half-tooth out of
sync is hard to believe.
Plus, as many times as I've had my timing cover off
over the last 5 years,
I've never seen any slack.
Paul Horschel's
response makes the most sense because there was an action to
take to correct
the problem, i.e., rotating the front cam counterclockwise
and the crank
clockwise. This doesn't take slack out as he said -- it
actually
CREATES slack until the tensioner pulley is pushed against it. But
with
his technique, no additional slack can be produced later because it's
already
taken up by the tensioner pulley.
In my case, we checked the belt
tightness all around after installation. It
was tight everywhere.
There's something else going on here. For example,
the tensioner pulley
itself runs on bearings. Maybe the bearings are shot,
making the pulley
vibrate enough that the center bolt is backing out. I
also noticed that
the little dowel pin that aligns the crank sprocket with
the crank pulley is
loose. There's a lot of play in it. That could cause
some
unwanted vibration.
Any other ideas? This time, I'm replacing the
tensioner pulley and center
bolt as well as the crank sprocket, dowel and
crank bolt. I'm going to use
Paul's technique for getting the last bit
of slack out and I'm putting
Loctite on the center bolt. That better
hold it.
Oh, and one last thing. I took a closer look at our crank
pulley the other
day and found a very small circle of rubber about 1/3 of the
way in towards
the center. Another reason not to buy
Unorthodox.
-Bob
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
Feb 3 04:41:46 1999
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From:
"Simon Jones" <simon@3kgto.freeserve.co.uk>
To: "3S Tech
List" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re Team3S:
Detonation (stock turbos)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:37:10
-0000
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Hi,
I live in England and have a
Japanese imported GTO. As Roger mentioned,
it's not easy to see the
housing without removing it, but I've driven a U.K.
spec. 3000GT (1995) and
compared with my GTO (1994), mine definitely felt
more powerful (before
mods), both in acceleration and turbo spool up time.
Of course, this may be
because the U.K. one was six speed and mine five.
I'll be gutting the
cats in the summer, so if no-one knows by then I'll be
able to find
out.
Simon Jones.
'94
GTO
simon@3kgto.freeserve.co.uk
http://www.3kgto.freeserve.co.uk
>
>One
of the list members living in the UK just imported a japanese GTO but
it
is
>not so easy to see the stamped number on the front one. When he
starts
>installing his mods it's maybe worth looking at the
housings.
>
>Yes, I do. The UK and EU cars both have the 13G turbos,
but as mentioned we
are
>not sure about the GTOs as this is not
verified.
>
>> I don't know anyone in Japan with a
GTO.
>
>I have an address but unfortunately the guy is not speaken
well English and
my
>Japanese ends at "Sushi"
:)
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
Feb 3 06:35:17 1999
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From: "Barry E. King"
<beking@home.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Re Team3S: Detonation
(stock turbos)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:35:38 -0700
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stealth-3000gt
The number stamped on the compressor housing is visible on
both the front
and rear turbos without getting into a big disassembly
project. Although it
may look like a daunting task, it isn't so
bad. The rear one is viewable by
removing plumbing until you can get a
good enough view. You can do the same
on the front. I found the
rear bothersome than the front turbo. I removed
the upper i/c hoses
from the Y pipe inlet and was able to get a reasonable
view of the numbers
stamped on the housing. A mirror and flashlight is also
useful and may
well mean no disassembly at all.
Regards,
Barry
>
-----Original Message-----
>
> Hi,
>
> I live in England
and have a Japanese imported GTO. As Roger mentioned,
> it's not
easy to see the housing without removing it, but I've
> driven a
U.K.
> spec. 3000GT (1995) and compared with my GTO (1994), mine
definitely felt
> more powerful (before mods), both in acceleration and
turbo spool up time.
> Of course, this may be because the U.K. one was six
speed and mine five.
>
> I'll be gutting the cats in the summer, so
if no-one knows by then I'll be
> able to find out.
>
> Simon
Jones.
> '94 GTO
> simon@3kgto.freeserve.co.uk
>
http://www.3kgto.freeserve.co.uk
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Performance wise, IMHO the HKS Mega Flow
is the 1st choice and is almost as
good as direct feed. To say better then
the K & N... both are excellent. The
main difference is the HKS needs
more filter changing and flows better for any
serious performance. The K
& N's filter will last longer, can be reused and
will clean the air a bit
better then the HKS. This benefit is the give back on
the performance.
Neither, of these filters are as capable of maintaining the
air standard of
the stock factory air filter. Over the long haul, in using
either the extra
wear will be evident from a less filtered air flow. Better is
the choice of
the user depending on the specific use.
Just my 2hp
Arty 91 VR-4
In
a message dated 2/2/99 11:01:44 PM Pacific Standard Time,
phnxgld@erols.com
writes:
<< I think the K&N is
probably the best filter on the market, most of the
other nice ones are
actually made by K&N. This would be supported by
looking at the
mods on the fastest cars, most run K&N. If I could do it
again, I'd
buy a K&N rather than falling for misleading, presumptuous
info with not
data to back it up. I'm happy with my cars performance,
but I like to
buy only the best if money isn't an options. Being more
informed now, I
could have the superior K&N (my opinion only) for $4
more than what I
paid for my Weapon-R. >>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com, Hans Friedli
<h.friedli@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Team3S: Water Injection, good news
!
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Horsepower freaks !
After the dyno session (the
page is not fully done yet) we started to think
about how to get rid of the
timing retard that starts at more boost than
1.00bars. The main thing is that
the stock fuel system runs out of fuel and with
the lower octane fuel
detonation occurs very early. So the primary thing is to
increase pump and
injectors and a device that controls them.
Today I sat together with the
Supra guy and we came back to the water-injection
stuff. I then had the idea
to get the Swiss address on the Aquamist homepage and
called them up. After
more than 1 hour on the phone I must admit that I do not
understand a little
about about engines and that this guy is the most educated
and most
experienced motorhead I ever spoke to ! To make it short here the
conclusion
on water injection :
They offer an Aquamist system with the bigger
water/alcohol pump for cars that
have more than 360 DIN hp (410 SAE). The
european cars do have a second water
reservoir in the front bumper for the
headlight washers and it can be used for
the system easily. But they also
have other reservoirs that can be placed
elsewhere. The whole system runs for
about $760. Fully installed with back to
back AWD dyno and tune in the cost
for everything is around $1150.
Well what gives it ? This system provides
a knock security as when you run ...
please take a seat ... fuel with 160
octane rating !!! No typo, 160 octane with
93 octane fuel. This allows us to
crank up boost over the 1.25 bar zone with
stock turbos and intercooler
without any danger of knock or detonation. As we
know now that our engines
obviously start knocking after 1.00 bars (!!) the
system will kick in just
before this boost level to provide the best
performance. This gives you the
best results of use as there's just no need for
it below that boost and saves
money on the alcohol/water mixture. Fully engaged
the system flows about
0.125 liter per minute. With a 2 liter tank this means 16
minutes running on
boosts way over 1.00bars.
The only drawback is that we have to change the
oil more often, but the most of
us do this every 5000 or less anyway. This is
due to particles going into the
oil circulation that are not wanted. But this
is much better compared to any
deposits elsewhere. Also a prerequisite is a
fuel system that does not max out
after 1.00bars. Therefore upgrading the
fuel system is a must too. The Supra guy
is lucky with the big injectors and
fuel pump the car already has stock :(
I'll be picking up the big
injectors when I'm in the States and they'll find
their way into the car by
the end of March. After this I'll probably do the
water-injection as it seems
the best and most secure way to prevent any
detonation. Of course the stock
turbos are not able to hold boost in the higher
range but they are still good
for more than 1.25 bars what will result in at
least 460 DIN hp (516 SAE,
measured on the dyno last year... including heavy
knock)
I'll get
written information soon as well as I'll visit the shop with the
cars
(Ferrari, Porsche, M3 with 560hp, Callaway Corvette TwinTurbo with
1000hp, gulp)
next week and I hope to be able to place them on my web site
for your
information.
Happy
boosting,
Roger
-----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
K&N FIPK,Magnecor
wires,Blitz DSBC/gauge/Dual Timer,Apexi AFC,SBOV,ATR DP/cat,
Borla,OZ
Mito2,Yoko AVS-Z1,braided brake lines,Bremsa brakes,Pagid RS-R
pads
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
Feb 3 09:46:07 1999
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Subject: Team3S: Transfer
cases
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stealth-3000gt
I know this has been brought up before, but i dont know
where to go to see
the discussions.
I'm wondering about the different
versions of transfer cases for the 1st
gen cars. These are my questions....
1. Will a transfer case that was installed as part of a warranty
upgraded
5-speed, fit an original equip. 5-speed?
2. Is there any way,
short of removal, to tell which spline size a x-fer
case has? And, why are
there 2 sizes?
3. Will a x-fer case that was installed under the recall
fit a warranty
upgrade 5-speed?
I'm trying to determine weather or
not a x-fer case that was replaced as
part of the recall will fit the
warranty upgrade transmission, and if a
x-fer case that was part of a
warranty upgrade transmission will fit an
original trans. Or will i have to
remove both of them to find out? Thanks
for any help you can
offer....
Wayne
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
Feb 3 10:05:19 1999
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From: "PHorschel"
<phorschel@utah-inter.net>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Timing belt
slippage
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:04:38 -0700
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Bob,
> Paul Horschel's response makes the most
sense because there was
> an action to
> take to correct the
problem, i.e., rotating the front cam counterclockwise
> and the crank
clockwise. This doesn't take slack out as he said -- it
> actually
CREATES slack until the tensioner pulley is pushed
> against it.
But
> with his technique, no additional slack can be produced later
because it's
> already taken up by the tensioner pulley.
Doing this
will take up any additional slack after you adjust the cam pulley
to
compensate for it. However, I found out that the cam spring strength
is
stronger than the tensioner spring. I have found that when my belt
is loose
the tensioner is pushed in beyond the point where you can't insert
the pin
in anymore. In this case the belt is still loose sometimes but,
the
difference in slack was very noticeable. I noticed some free play
in the
belt but, not more than 3/8" side to side movement when checking
between the
water pump pulley and the either inner camshaft pulley. The
first time I
put on the belt I had 1" to 1 1/2" of
play.
> In my case, we checked the belt tightness all around
after
> installation. It
> was tight everywhere. There's
something else going on here. For example,
> the tensioner pulley
itself runs on bearings. Maybe the bearings
> are shot,
>
making the pulley vibrate enough that the center bolt is backing out.
I
> also noticed that the little dowel pin that aligns the crank sprocket
with
> the crank pulley is loose. There's a lot of play in it.
That could cause
> some unwanted vibration.
Before you put
everything back together hit the key and turn the engine over
a few cranks
and let it sit for about 30 min and then check for slack in the
belt.
You might want to do this a couple of times to be sure.
> Any other
ideas? This time, I'm replacing the tensioner pulley and center
>
bolt as well as the crank sprocket, dowel and crank bolt. I'm
>
going to use
> Paul's technique for getting the last bit of slack out and
I'm putting
> Loctite on the center bolt. That better hold
it.
I didn't seem to have any problems with the cam tensioner bolt coming
loose.
Loctite is a good idea to be sure it won't. I didn't have any
slack in the
crankshaft pulley either.
BTW-If you don't have the proper
tool to keep the crankshaft from spinning
while you remove the bolt you can
put a breaker bar with a socket on the nut
and back it up against the
A-arm(control arm) and hit the key. This could
be very dangerous.
Do it at your own risk.
Good Luck,
-Paul Horschel
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
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Date:
Wed, 03 Feb 1999 10:15:03 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh
<middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Organization: General Atomics - Fusion
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To:
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Transfer
cases
References:
<4.1.19990203112528.00962280@mail.hypertech-inc.com>
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Hi Wayne,
> 1. Will a transfer case that was
installed as part of a warranty upgraded
> 5-speed, fit an original equip.
5-speed?
Not necessarily. No doubt, dealers have replaced trannys
without
transfer cases and vice versa, meaning that those cars still have
the
small splines. Not always did/will they replace a tranny and a
transfer
case together with the larger splined units. It is also
possible that
they replaced the pair with the smaller splined
units.
>
> 2. Is there any way, short of removal, to tell which
spline size a x-fer
> case has? And, why are there 2 sizes?
Perhaps
you can give your VIN to the local dealer/service manager and
they can tell
you if they upgraded your car to the larger splined tranny
& transfer
case.
>
> 3. Will a x-fer case that was installed under
the recall fit a warranty
> upgrade 5-speed?
See #1
answer.
>
> I'm trying to determine weather or not a x-fer case
that was replaced as
> part of the recall will fit the warranty upgrade
transmission, and if a
> x-fer case that was part of a warranty upgrade
transmission will fit an
> original trans. Or will i have to remove both
of them to find out?
Removing the transfer case and counting the teeth is
the surest way to
know. The "small" spline has ~18 teeth and
the upgraded "larger" spline
has ~24 (someone can correct actual
numbers).
Good luck,
Ken
--
Ken Middaugh
General
Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Message-ID: <36B8A730.CB4A3228@swissonline.ch>
Date:
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From: "R.G."
<robby@swissonline.ch>
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Mods and True gains
References:
<36B7801F.ECFB6B91@netmail7.mnet.uswest.com>
<36B7F3F2.F43A29BD@erols.com>
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> I myself have done a similar
modification. I have a 94 VR4 with 89k
> miles. The only mod
I've done is a Weapon-R filter. I still have the
> original plugs
and wires, meaning they have NEVER been changed.
Therefore you've not
done the 60k service ! You're currently in a big danger to
kill something in
your engine :(
> I've had 2 opportunities to run my car. My best
time to date was
> 13.36@102.54. I feel confident I could have run
13.2 or better as I
> spun excessively off the line.
No flame broh,
but with only the filter you run 13.36 without cranking up boost
??. The
speed seems somewhat low for this ET ... so you had a very good time
then
;-)
> I consider my Weapon-R to be inferior to K&N
filters,
> and I beleive those numbers are basically unheard of for little
to no
> modifications on a VR4, especially if the mod was 2hp or
less.
In fact, adding a better free-flow filter will not give you any
horses for sure.
It "can" but obviously it allows the car to breath
better and spool up quicker.
This results in beter ETs but this doesn't show
you more power !
> Keep in mind that it's very possible to gain 15hp
without ever gaining
> any PEAK hp. If a given car is hitting 350hp
at 4k rpms and 400hp at 7k
> rpms, it could gain up to 50hp at 4k rpms
without ever breaking 400hp peak.
As an example at 4650rpm Jims car had
34hp SAE less than mine will mine peaked
about 6 hp less at the top
then.
> My car also suffers from slight stumbles in
acceleration at times and
> I'm most certain that replacing my plugs and
wires will fix this and
> will further increase it's
performance.
The wires can help, especially when regapping the plugs and
when more energy is
required. If you are running your care bone stock and
change the wires nothing
will happen :)
Speaking of true gains in
horsepower and torque only a dyno sheet can tell the
truth. Speaking of
performance the ETs and trap speed tell the story. But then
also wind, the
driver and the tranny play an important rule. Sitting on a dyno
and running 5
different filters after each other could also give wrong results
due to
heating the car up more and more with each run. We had 3 cars with
different
setups on the dyno (all with K&N FIPK) so therefore this variable is
out
of the game.
Finally, adding a filter, exhaust, dp, removing the cat,
nothing helps if you
are not cranking up boost enough ! And if you do this,
your fuel system will be
at its end before you'll see any gain of the
exhaust. Stay tuned for our
compiled
dyno results
!
Regards,
Roger
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Feb 3 11:02:44 1999
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Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 14:00:51
-0500
From: "Theiss, Charles"
<charles.theiss@lmco.com>
Subject: Team3S: Dyno Results
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Roger when can we expect to see these
results? And will you be kind enough
to list the mods each one of you
have done so we can compare our current
setups?
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date: Wed, 03
Feb 1999 13:03:30 -0600
From: Jeff Crabtree
<wjcrabtree@sprintmail.com>
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To:
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"stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Tire giants
collide
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Found this on ABC's website. Goodyear and Sumitomo
are
merging.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/business/DailyNews/goodyear990203.html
--
-Jeff
Crabtree
'91 Stealth R/T
Turbo(#499)
'93
Wrangler 4.0L
Sport
St. Louis, MO
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
Feb 3 11:47:46 1999
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Date: Wed, 03 Feb
1999 19:47:39
From: MARK CREEKMORE <mcreekmore@usa.net>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: [Team3S: Tire giants
collide]
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That's very interesting, I have
Sumitomo HTRZ II tires on my 92 TT and I think that they are great. They are
very similar to the Dunlop SP9000 but cost a lot less. Every time I tell someone
what kind of tires I have they have never heard of Sumitomo. Maybe this will
help them get more
recognition.
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com wrote:
>
Found this on ABC's website. Goodyear and Sumitomo are merging.
>
>
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/business/DailyNews/goodyear990203.html
>
> --
> -Jeff Crabtree
> '91 Stealth
R/T
Turbo(#499)
>
'93 Wrangler 4.0L
Sport
>
St. Louis, MO
>
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is
>
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
Mark
Black '92 R/T,
K&N Filter, HKS dual tip exaust, Alamo Downpipe, Random Tech. Cat., HKS EVC
IV, Stillen Sport Rotor Kit (disks, pads, lines, fluid), Fittipaldi Tubolare
18" Rims, Sumitomo HTRZ II 245/45ZR18 Tires, Strut tower hood
scoop.
____________________________________________________________________
Get
free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
For
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
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From: Frank Chen
<jeep1978@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: Racing Helmets
To: Team3S List
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
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Hi guys...don't post much but was wondering how do you
come to
determine if a helmet is within specs for drag racing etc...
The
reason I am asking is that there is a helmet by Aral that
is
Snell-approved and approved by a 2nd agency. the problem is that
it
is a motorcycle helmet and I can get it for around $186 plus tax.
Anyhow, is there a definite requirement as to what agency must approve
of
the helmet before it can be used for auto racing and such...I saw
the one
that Ed Fein had but don't remember if it was auto-helmet
or
cycle-helmet.
==
-Frank-
"JEEPers"
www.geocities.com/Baja/Canyon/6045
_________________________________________________________
DO
YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
Feb 3 14:18:42 1999
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There is no real big difference except
maybe the mouth style and venting but
as long as it is snel 90 or 95 it
should be approved. Look inside or on the
back for the snel
sticker
Xannieria
3SI #130
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web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999
16:00:45 -0700
From: Ricardo Cousar
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Mods and True
gains
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> . You don't have to generate horsepower to
improve the performace of
> your car. (Lose weight, reduce drag,
etc.)
This is all true, but we are talking about true hp gain, allot of
people think that just
by adding an air filter they are actually adding
horses. My goal is get get past the
myth and get back to
reality.
> You talk about Dyno #'s, problem is they're not
comparible to any
> other cars that have any different mods. The #
of HP gained with a K&N on
> an otherwise stock car is not going to be
the same as one that has "The
> Works"
This is also true,
but you have to have some reference point to start with.
Remember
changing the air filter is the first mod most people do, and
don't you think it would
be misleading to compare a race car with a street
car. It's like apples and oranges.
> If a tuneup can
"Create" or at least "regain" horsepower, most
people
> who add new plug wires will see an improvement, not over stock,
but over
> current condition.
Well as far a plug wires are
concerned, a well tune car will always run better. As, far
as, Magnecor
I think they are overpriced and I question the need to run wires like that.
I
believe if you get a decent set of wires they will do the same. Not stock
wires,
mind you but good quality wires. I think the Magnicor wires are
excessive. There comes a
point when overkill sets in.
Just to some
this up, I am not saying, not to buy these products, but I am
saying
people should learn about mods before they buy. I just want
people to be fully informed
about about what they are buying, so they don't
waste money on things they don't need or
don't need yet.. Example people who
buy bigger injectors and have stock turbos and no
boost
controller.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
Feb 3 16:09:05 1999
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Subject: Re: RE: Team3S: Timing belt
slippage
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Original
message:
>snip>
>>> "PHorschel"
<phorschel@utah-inter.net> 2/3/99 10:04:38 AM >>>
BTW-If you
don't have the proper tool to keep the crankshaft from spinning
while you
remove the bolt you can put a breaker bar with a socket on the nut
and back
it up against the A-arm(control arm) and hit the key. This could
be
very dangerous. Do it at your own risk.
Good Luck,
-Paul
Horschel
>end snip>
I strongly advise not to do this.
These are interference engines (at least my 91 TT is). If you turn over
the crankshaft with the timing belt removed, there is a chance that the
piston(s) could hit an open valve(s), causing severe, expensive damage to your
engine. The way the Mitsu mechanic here removes the pulley bolt is with a
very high torque air impact wrench. This removes the bolt without turning
the engine over. The special crankshaft tool is no longer available, as
far as I know (not from Mitsu, Snapon, or Mack).
Patrick
91
VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
Feb 3 19:49:20 1999
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From: "PHorschel"
<phorschel@utah-inter.net>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Timing belt
slippage
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:48:43 -0700
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This is just a way to take the bolt out of the crankshaft
pulley. The
timing belt is still on the engine when you do this.
I have done this on a
few different makes of cars with no problems.
Just be sure the belt is
still on there before you do this. A good
impact wrench would be the best
way to do it.
-Paul Horschel
>
BTW-If you don't have the proper tool to keep the crankshaft from
spinning
> while you remove the bolt you can put a breaker bar with a
socket
> on the nut
> and back it up against the A-arm(control arm)
and hit the key. This could
> be very dangerous. Do it at your
own risk.
> I strongly advise not to do this. These are
interference engines
> (at least my 91 TT is). If you turn over the
crankshaft with the
> timing belt removed, there is a chance that the
piston(s) could
> hit an open valve(s), causing severe, expensive damage
to your
> engine. The way the Mitsu mechanic here removes the pulley
bolt
> is with a very high torque air impact wrench. This removes
the
> bolt without turning the engine over. The special
crankshaft
> tool is no longer available, as far as I know (not from
Mitsu,
> Snapon, or Mack).
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date: Wed,
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Subject:
Team3S: 92 Stealth RT TT for sale
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<199902030658.WAA07142@list.sirius.com>
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The subject says it. I am selling my 92 Stealth RT
TT. The car has approx-115k on it (I
don't have it here to
check), it is red with charcoal leather, new timing belts, ac
just
redone, new xfer case and output shaft. Car runs VERY
STRONG, it does need MINOR
cosmetics (a couple of parking lot dings and
the hood is faded). I am asking $8500 or
best, I am willing to
negotiate, I have to move back to Florida and cannot take all four
of
my cars with me :(. If anyone is interested, the car is in New
York. You can email me
or call (914)344-5427. Thanx.
Joe
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
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Date: Thu, 04
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Mods and True
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Aso8@aol.com wrote:
>
> Performance wise,
IMHO the HKS Mega Flow is the 1st choice and is almost as
> good as direct
feed. To say better then the K & N... both are excellent. The
> main
difference is the HKS needs more filter changing and flows better for
any
> serious performance. The K & N's filter will last longer, can be
reused and
> will clean the air a bit better then the HKS. This benefit is
the give back on
> the performance. Neither, of these filters are as
capable of maintaining the
> air standard of the stock factory air filter.
Over the long haul, in using
> either the extra wear will be evident from
a less filtered air flow. Better is
> the choice of the user depending on
the specific use.
> Just my 2hp
> Arty 91 VR-4
I hope
noone took any of my comments as more than my own simple
opinion, and I agree
100% that 'best' is based solely on one's opinion.
The HKS dual mega flow (I
think) is the only other one I would have
mentioned, but I no virtually
nothing about the single or dual mega
flows and therefore didn't even want to
offer an opinion on them. Going
only on what I've heard, the HKS are
pricy at best, and I've even heard
rumors that dyno testing showed little to
no gain, or even worse
performance over stock with the mega flow.
Sounds weird, but again, I
have no first hand knowledge of the above.
With no data to actually
back it up, I was also under the impression that the
K&N (and possibly
others) actually filter better. Has anyone tested
this?
What are your thoughts on the other statements? I just
can't see how
a more free flowing intake would not add power (peak or not)
unless
something else in the system was restricting flow to a point where
it
made no difference. All other things equal, more air
(specifically
oxygen) equals a more powerfull explosion, and hence more
power, no? As
far as plugs and wires are concerned, better spark should
equate to a
performance increase, whether noticable or not. Even with
no mods
beyond plugs and/or wires, less voltage drop would mean a bigger
spark
and more thorough explosion, which could do nothing more than
improve
the performance as far as I can tell. It might even be possible
to
increase the gap (minute or not) with less voltage drop. Keep in
mind,
I'm not saying the performance gain would be noticable, or
even
measurable. The difference could be ridiculously negligable, but
more
voltage would be an improvement, however slight it may
be.
Jason
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Mods and True
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"R.G." wrote:
> Therefore you've not
done the 60k service ! You're currently in a big danger to
> kill
something in your engine :(
No need to warn me, I kick myself in
the arse everyday. The car's
basically sitting now and money wasn't
that great until now. I'll be
picking up Accel wires and NGK plugs this
weekend if all goes well. I
won't even mention the fact that it's the
original timing belt. Doh,
guess I just did :P
> No flame
broh, but with only the filter you run 13.36 without cranking up boost
>
??. The speed seems somewhat low for this ET ... so you had a very good
time
> then ;-)
I haven't yet gotten a boost controller,
don't even have an
aftermarket boost gauge yet. The filter is truely
the only mod that's
been done. I'm fighting my new (first) scanner, and
Nexus still hasn't
posted my 13.60@101 run after at least 2 months since I
first emailed
them, never even got a response............. It costs WAY
too much to
scan at Kinko's, and I don't have a fax. There's no telling
when this
will be put on the list, but Mike Mahaffey was there that
day.
There were a few things in my favor as far as I'm
concerned. It was
near sea level, cool, but not cold. As I was
fairly certain it'd be my
last run for some time, I decided to dump the
clutch when I launched. I
don't plan on making this a habbit, but I
wanted to see what it could
do. My tires were nearly bald on top of the
fact that I pulled through
the water (no choice) and didn't heat the tires
up, I think it allowed
me to spin enough so that I didn't bog. I only
had 5 runs that day, and
I did try heating the tires up once. I nearly
had a heart attack when I
dumped the clutch at 6k, the wheels didn't spin,
and the clutch didn't
slip. I thought for sure I'd break the hell outta
something, and even
though it bogged badly, I ran 13.39 that run. On my
fastest run, I spun
WAY too much, so I have littled doubt that I COULD have
run 13.2 or
better, whether I ever do it or not. The stumbles I spoke
of were also
fealt in most runs, don't recall this particular run, probably
spinning
too much to notice.
> The wires can help, especially when
regapping the plugs and when more energy is
> required. If you are running
your care bone stock and change the wires nothing
> will happen
:)
See my response to Arty's message. I wouldn't say
nothing, maybe
virtually nothing. That's only my opinion of course, and
I try to be
very literal.
Hurry up with the dyno results
already :P
Jason
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Feb 4 03:51:09 1999
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From: "Meyer" <meyer2@erols.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Fw: 92 RT TT Problem
Urgent help!!!!
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 06:44:53 -0500
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any ideas?
-----Original
Message-----
From: Maged Shaker <magshaker@hotmail.com>
To:
stealth@dragnet.com <stealth@dragnet.com>
Date: Thursday, February 04,
1999 5:07 AM
Subject: 92 RT TT Problem Urgent help!!!!
>Hi
everyone,
>
>I really have a huge problem with my
stealth,
>can anyone help,
>
>One fine morning I started it up
no prob's then all of a sudden it just
>stopped, I tried it again but all
it would do is crank but no ignition,
>I had it towed to a garage, they
worked on it for two days but came up
>with nothing after they checked
all the fuses an electrical circut they
>said that it could be the ECU
since when on my second attempt to start
>it there was a wisp of smoke
comming from behind the CD-Tape player
>panel.
>
>Does anyone
out there know or can help me out here in what do you think
>is the cause
of all this misery
>
>please help
!
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Feb 4 04:44:25 1999
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From:
"Bob Fontana" <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Fw: 92 RT TT
Problem Urgent help!!!!
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 07:43:56 -0500
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Sounds like the ECU. There are some capacitors on
the motherboard that
start leaking. Go to
http://www.tmo.com/howto/ecu1g/caps.htm. Todd
explains what happens
when they leak.
-Bob
> any ideas?
> > <snip>
Since when on my second attempt to start
> >it there was a wisp of
smoke comming from behind the CD-Tape player
> >panel.
For
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Feb 4 06:54:44 1999
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From:
"Wendlandt, Mark (MN51)" <MWendlan@cfsmo.honeywell.com>
To:
"'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Timing belt
slippage
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:54:29 -0600
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I created the "special tool" by taking a
large(14") channel lock pliers and
drilling holes in each of the
jaws(3/8" holes across from each other towards
the end of the
jaws). Then get some grade 5,8 bolts and put them in the
holes.
Adjust the pliers so the bolts fit in the holes in the crank pulley
and rest
the pliers on the a-arm.....loosen the crank bolt.
This worked great!!
and you don't ruin the
pliers!
Mark
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark
Wendlandt Honeywell CASSPO-Development
Phone:
957-3736 Pager:
601-0881
Email:
Mark.Wendlandt@cfsmo.honeywell.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-----Original
Message-----
From: PHorschel [mailto:phorschel@utah-inter.net]
Sent:
Wednesday, February 03, 1999 9:49 PM
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Timing belt
slippage
This is just a way to take the bolt out of the crankshaft
pulley. The
timing belt is still on the engine when you do this.
I have done this on a
few different makes of cars with no problems.
Just be sure the belt is
still on there before you do this. A good
impact wrench would be the best
way to do it.
-Paul Horschel
>
BTW-If you don't have the proper tool to keep the crankshaft from
spinning
> while you remove the bolt you can put a breaker bar with a
socket
> on the nut
> and back it up against the A-arm(control arm)
and hit the key. This could
> be very dangerous. Do it at your
own risk.
> I strongly advise not to do this. These are
interference engines
> (at least my 91 TT is). If you turn over the
crankshaft with the
> timing belt removed, there is a chance that the
piston(s) could
> hit an open valve(s), causing severe, expensive damage
to your
> engine. The way the Mitsu mechanic here removes the pulley
bolt
> is with a very high torque air impact wrench. This removes
the
> bolt without turning the engine over. The special
crankshaft
> tool is no longer available, as far as I know (not from
Mitsu,
> Snapon, or Mack).
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Feb 4 09:40:55 1999
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From: "Steven A. File" <sfile@usa.net>
To:
"Team 3S"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>,
"Starnet" <stealth@starnet.net>
Subject: Team3S: RIP
Mitsubishi 3000 GT
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:39:33 -0600
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It's definitely true. Our local Mitsubishi dealer got a
letter from MMSA
Distribution asking how many 3000 GTs and what models they
want for the
"sell down" for the model's final year (1999). I saw a
copy of the letter,
so it is definitely the end of the line for the 3000 GT,
at least as we know
and love it!!
Steve
File
mailto:sfile@usa.net
"Some days you're the dog . .
.
. . . other days you're the
hydrant."
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Feb 4 10:25:21 1999
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Date:
Thu, 04 Feb 1999 17:06:56 +0100
From: Matthews
<matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
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To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
CC: magshaker@hotmail.com
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Fw: 92 RT TT Problem Urgent help!!!!
References:
<01be5033$c7acd720$0100007f@default>
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Maged Shaker
<magshaker@hotmail.com>
> To: stealth@dragnet.com
<stealth@dragnet.com>
> Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 5:07
AM
> Subject: 92 RT TT Problem Urgent help!!!!
>
> >One
fine morning I started it up no prob's then all of a sudden it just
>
>stopped, I tried it again but all it would do is crank but no
ignition,
> >I had it towed to a garage, they worked on it for two days
but came up
> >with nothing after they checked all the fuses an
electrical circut they
> >said that it could be the ECU since when on
my second attempt to start
> >it there was a wisp of smoke comming from
behind the CD-Tape player
> >panel.
Hmm, don't know about the
smoke in the cockpit but I suffered through
the same experience a few years
ago after installing the FIPK (without
disconnecting the battery to reset
things). Basically, the MAS decided
it was seeing too much air and
caused a shot circuit that blew a fuse
and killed the motor. Engine
would crank but no ignition. Problem was
resolved by disconnecting the
battery, disconnecting the MAS harness
plug, replacing the fuse, and
reconnecting the plug, and reconnecting
the battery. Fired right up and
haven't had a problem since!
Good luck...
-Jim
--
Jim Matthews
- Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps
ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
*** 3000GT-Stealth
International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94
Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension,
Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72%
BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark
plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix brake pads, custom braided
brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech
Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE
HP, 354 lb-ft torque
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Feb 4 11:16:45 1999
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Message-ID: <36B9F213.64D2A170@omega.gat.com>
Date:
Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:16:35 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh
<middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Organization: General Atomics - Fusion
Division
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<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: 92 RT TT Problem
Urgent help!!!!
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> >One fine morning I started it up no prob's
then all of a sudden it just
> >stopped, I tried it again but all it
would do is crank but no ignition,
> >I had it towed to a garage, they
worked on it for two days but came up
> >with nothing after they
checked all the fuses an electrical circut they
> >said that it could
be the ECU since when on my second attempt to start
> >it there was a
wisp of smoke comming from behind the CD-Tape player
>
>panel.
Did they pull the error codes from the ECU? This should
help diagnose
the problem.
It sounds suspiciously like an electric
component failure. ECU or
crankshaft or camshaft angle position
sensors.
Good luck,
Ken
--
Ken Middaugh
General
Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date: Thu, 04
Feb 1999 14:04:43 -0600
From: Jeff Crabtree
<wjcrabtree@sprintmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Team3S: RIP Mitsubishi 3000
GT
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<NBBBLPCOKKKFCAJHHKHFEEGPDBAA.sfile@usa.net>
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"Steven A. File" wrote:
>
Mitsubishi dealer got a letter from MMSA
> Distribution asking how many
3000 GTs and what models they want for the
> "sell down" for the
model's final year (1999).
I was @ the St. Louis Auto show a couple of
weeks ago, and I asked about the fate of the
3000 at the mitsu display.
I was told that there will be no Y2K model, but the car will
be back in 2001,
completely remodled. On a down note, I was also told that they plan
on
doing away with the turbo version of the car. They said that fewer
and fewer people
were willing to pay the premium price hike for the increase
in performance. R.I.P. "TT"
--
-Jeff
Crabtree
'91 Stealth R/T
Turbo(#499)
'93
Wrangler 4.0L
Sport
St. Louis, MO
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Feb 4 12:08:36 1999
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Message-ID: <36B9FE40.2F2435A0@colorado.edu>
Date: Thu, 04 Feb
1999 13:08:32 -0700
From: Dave
<monarchd+team3s@colorado.edu>
Organization: noticably, very
little..
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Mods and True
gains
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Regarding filtration and forced induction, it dawned
on me that there
was a serious
debate on a VW Corrado list that I'm on,
about whether a K&N was letting
in too
much dust and damaging the
bearings on the G-Lader superchargers. The
issue
was that the
G-60 superchargers were built to extremely close tolerances
and tended
to
be short-lived without "proper"filtration. I know that the
K&N (or
similar) seems
to be the first choice mod among the majority
of TT owners, and I would
imagine
there would be negative comments if this
mod were causing consistant
problems.
Comments?
Dave
91
VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Feb 4 12:56:45 1999
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Mods and True gains -
getting long
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In furtherance of my comments...I have
read reports specifically about
K & N from a heavy equipment contractor.
This company
(I'm a contractor too) runs numerous turbo diesels that cost
upwards
of a million each. They did a study of using the "reusable"
K&N filter
in place of the factory filters that last only a few weeks in
heavy
construction environments. The results were disappointing. They did
not
perform as well as the factory filters, in cleaning the air. Nothing to
do
with performance in the report. The concern & disappointment was that
they could not cut the replacement costs of the factory filters by using
the "reusable" K&N due to poor filtration. If I recall it all,
the heads were
in essence being sandblasted by minute particles getting
through the filter.
On A Million Dollar plus machine, this is serious stuff.
There is usually a
bit
of a trade off in any performance enhancement. If
you get better tires,
don't they wear faster? Same with an air filter, more
less restricted air, =
not filtered as well.
Arty 91 VR-4
In a
message dated 2/4/99 12:09:02 PM Pacific Standard
Time,
monarchd+team3s@colorado.edu writes:
<< Subj: Re: Team3S:
Mods and True gains
Date: 2/4/99 12:09:02 PM Pacific Standard Time
From:
monarchd+team3s@colorado.edu (Dave)
Sender:
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Reply-to:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Regarding filtration and forced
induction, it dawned on me that there
was a serious
debate on a VW Corrado
list that I'm on, about whether a K&N was letting
in too
much dust and
damaging the bearings on the G-Lader superchargers.
The
issue
was that the G-60 superchargers were built to extremely close
tolerances
and tended
to be short-lived without
"proper"filtration. I know that the K&N (or
similar)
seems
to be the first choice mod among the majority of TT owners, and I
would
imagine
there would be negative comments if this mod were causing
consistant
problems.
Comments?
Dave
91 VR4
>>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Feb 4 13:12:03 1999
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From:
"Bob Fontana" <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Mods and True
gains - getting long
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:11:32 -0500
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I'd sure love to get my hands on one of those earthmover
turbos...but
seriously, are the conditions the we put our cars through the
same as an
earthmover or caterpillar bulldozer?
-Bob
> If I
recall it all, the heads were in essence being sandblasted by
minute
particles
> getting through the filter. On A Million Dollar plus
machine, this is
serious stuff. > There is usually a bit of a trade off in
any performance
enhancement.
C'mon Arty, we know the REAL reason they
were using K & N filters...better
trap speeds!
-Bob
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Feb 4 13:14:00 1999
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From:
Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
To:
"'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: RE: K&N versus
Stock versus ???
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:14:37 -0800
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-----Original Message-----
From: Aso8@aol.com
[mailto:Aso8@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 1999 12:54 PM
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Cc: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Mods
and True gains - getting long
<snip>
There is usually a bit of a
trade off in any performance enhancement. If you
get better tires, don't they
wear faster? Same with an air filter, more less
restricted air, = not
filtered as well. Arty 91 VR-4
<end of
snip>
==============================
Arty...
Good observation.
One alternative...
If the aftermarket filter has more surface area than
the stock, it should
allow better air flow, even if it has the same filter
density. True? I think
that's a fundamental advantage of the HKS, mine has a
dual bell with what I
would guess is thirty or forty square inches of
filtered air flow. The stock
unit was perhaps twelve square inches. BTW...I'm
not a fan of paper filters,
which is why I didn't buy the
K&N.
However, filter density could be a big factor. I know there's
some strip
racers who pull their filter entirely (for a 1/4 mile) and some
who run a
nylon over the mouth. Both would allow a considerable increase of
flow (over
stock OR aftermarket). Ahhhhh, but the risk.
Soooo, the
question for those of you with daily drivers...has anyone ever
used the stock
assembly for daily driving, then put on the aftermarket for
race days? This
is one of those cases where I wish I lived down the street
from Roger Gerl,
so we could swap parts on and off, and dyno the car with
every change. Ahhh,
for an AWD dyno in town.
Looking forward...Chris
1995 Glacier
Pearl White VR4 (w/HKS Super Flo intake, HKS SBOV, Predator dry
cell battery,
bored and polished throttle body, Magnecore 8.5mm wires, HKS
double platinum
plugs gapped at .034", GReddy PRofec A boost controller,
GReddy turbo
timer, ATR downpipe and test pipe, GReddy catback exhaust,
Eibach 1"
drop progressive springs)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Feb 4 13:45:19 1999
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Mods and True gains -
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In a message dated 2/4/99 1:13:57 PM
Pacific Standard Time,
bfontana@securitytechnologies.com
writes:
<< Subj: RE: Team3S: Mods and True gains - getting
long
Date: 2/4/99 1:13:57 PM Pacific Standard Time
From:
bfontana@securitytechnologies.com (Bob Fontana)
Hi Bob, probably not.
But, I'd bet the air velocity going into your filter at
WOT is substantially
greater then one of these monster machines. And, yeah one
of these turbos
would be fun to try.
Arty
I'd sure love to get my hands on one of
those earthmover turbos...but
seriously, are the conditions the we put our
cars through the same as an
earthmover or caterpillar
bulldozer?
-Bob
>>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Feb 4 15:11:50 1999
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Subject: Re:
Team3S: RE: K&N versus Stock versus ???
References:
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It is generally accepted that any filter that gives you
greater air flow is not going to
filter air as well. If you want a micron
filter, and I'm sure someone could fabricate
one, then expect severe flow
restrictions with impecable filtration. Also be prepared to
change it every
day, and to have low, low performance. But, you'll have a shiny
engine
interior :-)
I doubt I would run my car in heavy
dust situations with a K&N, and were these
conditions the norm, as with
the heavy equipment guy, I would opt for the OE filter and
put it and the box
back on my car. Why be stupid when you don't have to be.
Generally common
sense makes sense. You get what you pay for, and you get what
the
manufacturer indicates his product is best
for.
Best
Darc
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt
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From:
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To:
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Subject: Team3S: 3SI discount
Date:
Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:19:43 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME
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Guys, somebody mentioned that some dealer could give BSI
discount if you =
on a list. Would somebody give some feed back on this,
please.
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Subject:
Team3S: Fw: 3SI discount
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Sorry for previous misspelling of the
list.
Guys, somebody mentioned that some dealer could give 3si discount
if you =
on a list. Would somebody give some feed back on this,
please.
=20
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
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From: "Barry E. King"
<beking@home.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Mods and True
gains - getting long
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:35:54 -0700
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I think it is of greater concern in some parts of the
country over others.
Here in AZ dust and sand particles would be a bigger
concern -- it gets
everywhere. Might also be the case in some other dry
and dusty areas
whereas it may not be on the coasts.
In any case, the
point is well taken. Driving around in a sand pit or a
mine all day is
different than cruising on paved roads. I
think.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
> I'd sure love to get my hands on one of those earthmover
turbos...but
> seriously, are the conditions the we put our cars through
the same as an
> earthmover or caterpillar bulldozer?
>
>
-Bob
>
> > If I recall it all, the heads were in essence being
sandblasted
> by minute
> particles
> > getting through the
filter. On A Million Dollar plus machine, this is
> serious stuff. >
There is usually a bit of a trade off in any performance
>
enhancement.
>
> C'mon Arty, we know the REAL reason they were using
K & N filters...better
> trap speeds!
>
> -Bob
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Feb 4 17:15:41 1999
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From: "Gross,
Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
To: "'Starnet 3Si Mailing
List'"
<stealth@starnet.net>,
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Subject:
Team3S: Tranny problem?
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:15:23 -0800
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Hi Guys,
I've got a question for those of you who know
a decent amount about
trannies. I just had my (mitsu) 5-speed rebuilt
by my dealer, under
warranty, (1st, 2nd synchros replaced, 1st, 2nd gear
bearings replaced) and
the notchy shifting I had experienced before is
reduced and eliminated in
some cases. However sometimes, especially
when it's cold, the shifter is
still really notchy, and a couple of times has
even ground the gears (1st
and 2nd).
Symptoms(all with clutch on the
floor, fully disengaged- yes, it's adjusted
properly):
1) two-phase
shifting- shifter goes about halfway into gear, reaches
resistance, and then
slips all the way into gear. (maybe synchro/collar
contact, followed by
collar/gear contact?) Worse when cold.
2) (about 3 times in the
last month) really cacophonous gear grating
noise...example conditions:
just started out of parking lot after work (40F
and car's been sitting for 9
hours), 1st is fine(going easy), get to 3500RPM
or so, decide to shift to
2nd, shifter comes halfway back, meets resistance,
pull a little harder,
nasty grinding noise, put it back in neutral, try
again for 2nd after having
everyone in the parking lot staring at me, 2nd
engages smoothly, I leave
parking lot with tail between legs.
This doesn't seem normal to me,
and the second symptom, although very
infrequent and only when cold(so far)is
very troubling. #2 happened once
while trying to downshift to 1st while
going 7.36mph and attempting to
rev-match, too.
So, any ideas?
Should I go back to the dealer? Maybe the synchros aren't
sticky enough
at low temperatures? (Technical: low coefficient of friction
at the
synchro/collar interface in cold conditions?) Does our layshaft have
a
HUGE rotational inertia or something? Is my tranny a piece of
crap?
Comments, please...
:)
TIA
--Erik
------
----------
Erik
Gross
DuPont, WA
'95 Pearl White 3000GT 48k mi - resonatorless + bald tire
mod
------
----------
"Without somehow destroying me in the process,
how could
God reveal Himself in a way that would leave no
room for
doubt? If there were no room for doubt,
there would be
no room for
me."
--Frederick
Buechner
-------------------------------------------------------------
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Feb 4 17:41:42 1999
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Subject: Re:
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Alex Gregory wrote:
> Sorry
for previous misspelling of the list.
>
> Actually we try and think
of it as a team (Team 3S) but 3Si will do
> for now. As per your query,
Chen at Nexus has always afforded us a
> discount. You can start there,
and by then, there's sure to be a few
> more of our friends in
commerce/motorsports who'll give you an idea of
> their downright fair and
competitive nature. : )
>
> Best
>
>
Darc
>
>
>
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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From: "Marc Spinale"
<mspinale@mediaone.net>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Tranny
problem?
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:45:37 -0500
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Erik,
My 93 transmission (#2 from
Mitsu) had the exact same problem you describe
(1st to 2nd). I believe it's
definitely an internal defect. In my case, a
rebuilt tranny was installed to
fix another problem and the new problem you
describe began. I made the
mistake of assuming that they simply adjusted
the cables
incorrectly.
It had resistance going into 2nd gear from 1st. It did
not happen all the
time but often enough to be a nuisance. My Mitsu
dealer explained that they
were not authorized to do even the smallest of
repairs on the units. Not
even a seal or gasket so I'm surprised to hear that
they opened yours up.
I wonder if the dealer put the wrong fluid in
it. Almost sounds like
there's heavy weight gear fluid inside. I
would go back to the dealer and
insist that they fix it. If they give
you trouble, ask for the contact info
for their Mitsubishi Rep,
Hope
this helps!
Good luck.
-Marc
93 VR4
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Gross, Erik
>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 1999 8:15 PM
> To: 'Starnet 3Si Mailing
List'; 'Dragnet 3S Mailing List'
> Subject: Team3S: Tranny
problem?
>
>
> Hi Guys,
> I've got a question for those
of you who know a decent amount about
> trannies. I just had my
(mitsu) 5-speed rebuilt by my dealer, under
> warranty, (1st, 2nd synchros
replaced, 1st, 2nd gear bearings
> replaced) and
> the notchy
shifting I had experienced before is reduced and eliminated in
> some
cases. However sometimes, especially when it's cold, the shifter
is
> still really notchy, and a couple of times has even ground the gears
(1st
> and 2nd).
>
> Symptoms(all with clutch on the floor,
fully disengaged- yes,
> it's adjusted
> properly):
>
>
1) two-phase shifting- shifter goes about halfway into gear, reaches
>
resistance, and then slips all the way into gear. (maybe
synchro/collar
> contact, followed by collar/gear contact?) Worse
when cold.
>
> 2) (about 3 times in the last month) really
cacophonous gear grating
> noise...example conditions: just started
out of parking lot
> after work (40F
> and car's been sitting for 9
hours), 1st is fine(going easy), get
> to 3500RPM
> or so, decide to
shift to 2nd, shifter comes halfway back, meets
> resistance,
> pull
a little harder, nasty grinding noise, put it back in neutral, try
> again
for 2nd after having everyone in the parking lot staring at me, 2nd
>
engages smoothly, I leave parking lot with tail between
legs.
>
>
> This doesn't seem normal to me, and the second
symptom, although very
> infrequent and only when cold(so far)is very
troubling. #2 happened once
> while trying to downshift to 1st while
going 7.36mph and attempting to
> rev-match, too.
>
> So, any
ideas? Should I go back to the dealer? Maybe the synchros
aren't
> sticky enough at low temperatures? (Technical: low coefficient of
friction
> at the synchro/collar interface in cold conditions?) Does
our
> layshaft have
> a HUGE rotational inertia or something?
Is my tranny a piece of crap?
> Comments, please... :)
>
>
TIA
> --Erik
>
>
>
------
----------
> Erik
Gross
DuPont, WA
> '95 Pearl White 3000GT 48k mi - resonatorless + bald tire
mod
>
------
----------
> "Without somehow destroying me in the
process, how could
> God reveal Himself in a way
that would leave no room for
> doubt? If
there were no room for doubt, there would be
> no
room for
me."
--Frederick Buechner
>
-------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Feb 4 19:04:10 1999
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Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 22:05:42
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From: Irving & Ana Jimenez
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S: Estimated HorsePower ?
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Hey Gang
!
Well I'm about to embark on another high performance adventure
( it
seems I can't leave well-enough alone - )
I'm about to order some parts for
my car and want to get a feel of about how much power
I should be making with
these mods
Order List :
K&N Filter
HKS Cat back System (
dual tip )
Down pipe ( not sure which brand yet )
HKS Boost
Controller
HKS SBOV
note my car is a "96 VR-4 with 41K
miles
Any estimates would be greatly appreciated :o)
especially what
1/4 mile times anyone has seen with these or similar
mods
Irving
--------------F5347329521C148A94E88721
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<HTML>
<P>Hey Gang !
<P>Well I'm
about to embark on another high performance adventure
<BR>( it seems I
can't leave well-enough alone - )
<BR>I'm about to order some parts for
my car and want to get a feel of
about how much power I should be making with
these mods
<P>Order List :
<P>K&N
Filter
<BR>HKS Cat back System ( dual tip )
<BR>Down pipe (
not sure which brand yet )
<BR>HKS Boost Controller
<BR>HKS
SBOV<B></B>
<P>note my car is a "96 VR-4 with 41K
miles
<P>Any estimates would be greatly appreciated
:o)
<BR>especially what 1/4 mile times anyone has seen with these or
similar
mods
<P>Irving
<BR>
<BR> </HTML>
--------------F5347329521C148A94E88721--
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Feb 4 21:06:25 1999
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From: "Marc Spinale" <mspinale@mediaone.net>
To:
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Subject: Team3S: Best kept
secret?
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 00:06:10 -0500
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After much research, I picked up a Borla cat back system a
few months ago
for my 93 VR4 -- only $479. $486 at my door. This was by
far the best price
I found anywhere! The other guys, not even Borla via the
net, could match
this deal.
It was purchased from Jeg's High
Performance -
800-345-4545.
http://webstore.jegs.com/cgi-bin/Jegs1.storefront/1490032616/Home?JEG's
These
guys usually deal with domestic stuff and all out Chevy/Ford racing
parts.
They happen to be the biggest reseller of Borla and offer what
appears to be
one of the best deals!
I've got to say, the staff at Stillen is
great. I wish the prices were a
bit more competitive. Ryan, a
staff member there, owns a 92 Stealth TT.
He's a great guy to talk to if you
need parts for your TT.
-Marc
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date: Fri, 05
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From: Jason Barnhart
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To:
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Subject: Team3S: RE: K&N versus
Stock. tests, proof?
References:
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stealth-3000gt
wce@bc.sympatico.ca wrote:
>
> It is
generally accepted that any filter that gives you greater air flow is not going
to
> filter air as well. If you want a micron filter, and I'm sure someone
could fabricate
> one, then expect severe flow restrictions with impecable
filtration. Also be prepared to
> change it every day, and to have low,
low performance. But, you'll have a shiny engine
> interior
:-)
I think it'd be a good idea to get some proof before everyone
starts
thinking that any aftermarket filter is not going to filter as well as
a
factory filter. In the case of the million dollar earth movers,
any
reason to think that the stock filters are excellent already??? I
mean
the thing does cost a million dollars. Also keep in mind that it
sounds
like they were looking to save money, not improve performance.
Sounds
very likely to me that their filters are just plain better already.
Who's to say that the stock Mitsu filter actually filters any better?
It's very possible for a higher flowing filter to filter equal
even
better, and what manufacturer out there doesn't pinch pennies and
use
inferior parts at times? I'd be willing to bet the factory Mitsu
filter
sucks for airflow, AND filtration, and I'd rather see hard proof on
this
than draw assumptions that an aftermarket filter is going to
filter
worse.
Jason
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
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Date: Fri, 05
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From: Ron Thompson
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Tranny
problem?
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Try changing the trany fluid. My Eclise trany
shifted
lousy with Valvoline gear oil but was ok
with Quaker State. The temp has alot
to to do with
your situation, trany temo won't come up for some
time after
the engine temp and gear oil is really
ornery when cold. All of the problems
you describe
were the same in my Eclipse and my 96 VR4 is real
notchy in
the morning.
Ron
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Mods and True
gains
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Ricardo Cousar wrote:
>
> >
. You don't have to generate horsepower to improve the performace
of
> > your car. (Lose weight, reduce drag, etc.)
>
> This
is all true, but we are talking about true hp gain, allot of people think that
just
> by adding an air filter they are actually adding horses. My goal is
get get past the
> myth and get back to reality.
>
>
> You talk about Dyno #'s, problem is they're not comparible to
any
> > other cars that have any different mods. The # of HP
gained with a K&N on
> > an otherwise stock car is not going to be
the same as one that has "The
> > Works"
>
>
This is also true, but you have to have some reference point to start with.
Remember
> changing the air filter is the first mod most people do,
and don't you think it would
> be misleading to compare a race car with a
street car. It's like apples and oranges.
A few other points I
forgot to mention... The only way I can see a
higher flowing filter not
adding power is if there is something else in
the system restricting it to a
point where it wouldn't matter if you ran
no filter. If that was the
case, wouldn't the restriction be the first
recommended mod? It also
sounds as though you're saying that a filter
wouldn't add ANY hp now, but in
your first post you mentioned SEEING
dyno testing showing a 2hp
gain.
Also, say a mod helps the turbos spool quicker. This
wouldn't equate
to any more peak hp/torque, but wouldn't it be more hp/torque
at a lower
rpm? Then wouldn't it be correct to say it adds
hp/torque?
Until someone can show me, on a dyno, 2 nearly identicle
VR4s, one
with an aftermarket filter and one without, and no performance
gain,
then I'm going to keep going with my own common sense on this.
Regardless of proof, nothing anyone else has said yet even makes sense
to
me as to why a higher flowing filter would not produce more power if
all
other circumstances are equal.
Jason
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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From: "Brad Bedell"
<bbedell@austin.rr.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: K&N
versus Stock. tests, proof?
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:25:16
-0600
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Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
I agree here on the "hard
data" needed.
I have not read a K&N cleaning instruction sheet in
quite some time. The
instructions use to read:
The filter will
actually filter better after it becomes a little dirty.
Meaning the holes in
the filter are closed up by the dirt.
Those of you who like to keep their
filters clean... Think about it. K&N
designed the filters to clean better
after they are somewhat dirty.
> Brad
>
> Check out
my home page: http://lonestar.texas.net/~bbedell
>
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682
-----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]
On Behalf Of Jason Barnhart
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 1999 11:06 PM
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: RE: K&N versus
Stock. tests, proof?
wce@bc.sympatico.ca
wrote:
>
> It is generally accepted that any filter that gives you
greater air flow
is not going to
> filter air as well. If you want a
micron filter, and I'm sure someone
could fabricate
> one, then expect
severe flow restrictions with impecable filtration. Also
be prepared
to
> change it every day, and to have low, low performance. But, you'll
have a
shiny engine
> interior :-)
I think it'd be a good
idea to get some proof before everyone starts
thinking that any aftermarket
filter is not going to filter as well as a
factory filter. In the case
of the million dollar earth movers, any
reason to think that the stock
filters are excellent already??? I mean
the thing does cost a million
dollars. Also keep in mind that it sounds
like they were looking to
save money, not improve performance. Sounds
very likely to me that
their filters are just plain better already.
Who's to say that the stock
Mitsu filter actually filters any better?
It's very possible for a higher
flowing filter to filter equal even
better, and what manufacturer out there
doesn't pinch pennies and use
inferior parts at times? I'd be willing
to bet the factory Mitsu filter
sucks for airflow, AND filtration, and I'd
rather see hard proof on this
than draw assumptions that an aftermarket
filter is going to filter
worse.
Jason
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
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From:
"Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: in search for a 93+
Turbo shortblock
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:49:28 -0600
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Hey everyone, I am needing a good core 93+
twin turbo engine. Does anyone
have any friends at a mitsu dealer that
can set me up with a warranty block,
or such?
Thanks,
>
Brad
Member of ESSC since 1999>
> Check out my home
page: http://lonestar.texas.net/~bbedell
> E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999
07:42:47 +0100
From: Matthews
<matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Estimated HorsePower
?
References: <000b01be50b1$9c491020$fcd18018@blaze.ne.mediaone.net>
<36BA6006.A7D0B3D2@crystal.palace.net>
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Irving & Ana Jimenez wrote:
>
> Hey Gang
!
>
> Well I'm about to embark on another high performance
adventure
> ( it seems I can't leave well-enough alone - )
> I'm
about to order some parts for my car and want to get a feel of
> about how
much power I should be making with these mods
>
> Order List
:
>
> K&N Filter
> HKS Cat back System ( dual tip
)
> Down pipe ( not sure which brand yet )
> HKS Boost
Controller
> HKS SBOV
>
> note my car is a "96 VR-4 with
41K miles
>
> Any estimates would be greatly appreciated
:o)
> especially what 1/4 mile times anyone has seen with these or
similar
> mods
>
> Irving
Irving,
Your car will
make approx. 400 SAE HP with those mods. At normal boost
levels (1.00
bar or so), the expensive exhaust system will give you
little to no
horsepower, just steal a little torque from the low end
where you drive most
often and move the curve up to the high end where
your injectors will be
maxed out. Take a look at my web page for more
info. Roger Gerl's
dyno page is also almost ready and will have a more
in-depth
explanation.
In my opinion, the money you plan to spend on the exhaust system
and
would be better spent on fuel delivery upgrades. Good
luck!!
-Jim
--
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden,
Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps
ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
*** 3000GT-Stealth
International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94
Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension,
Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72%
BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark
plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix brake pads, custom braided
brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech
Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE
HP, 354 lb-ft torque
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Feb 4 23:03:02 1999
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Message-ID:
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Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 22:56:50
-0800
From: "Errin D. Humphrey"
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Subject: Team3S: Re:
TSB's...
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All,
A while back Thomas was asking me about
TSB's. He just
sent me this link which lists them all. Could
somebody please
answer his question for me? I'm clueless. I'll
forward the
answer back to him.
--Errin
>
Hey Errin
remember how I mentioned to u before about those TSB's?
Here they are.
My question is can we take our cars to the dealerships
& they'll fix the
problems for free? I want to get my horn fixed cuz the
horn
button falls out & doesn't work. Well thanks if you can help
me
out. C-ya.
T. [Thomas
Broadbent]
http://www.alldata.com/consumer/TSB/39/95392116.html
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Feb 5 00:09:16 1999
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From:
"Bill" <compren@lightspeed.net>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: K&N
versus Stock. tests, proof?
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 00:11:32
-0800
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Funyn part is I waited 20k miles to
clean mine, it was BARELY dirty and took
a few drops to clean....Course it
came with a 16oz container of cleaner,
figure I can go about 3 million miles,
before I lose the bottle....
-Bill/K&N the only after market part
your mom can install....Besides the
Lame_ass "No Fear" stickers
everyone has now...
>I have not read a K&N cleaning
instruction sheet in quite some time. The
>instructions use to
read:
>
>The filter will actually filter better after it becomes a
little dirty.
>Meaning the holes in the filter are closed up by the
dirt.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Feb 5 00:11:37 1999
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From:
"Bill" <compren@lightspeed.net>
To:
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Best kept
secret?
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 00:13:52 -0800
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That's where I got mine, no one else was
close, I had to know the part #
though because they didn't have a
clue.
Believe the guys from Nexus sent me there when they didn't have
it...
-Bill
>After much research, I picked up a Borla
cat back system a few months ago
>for my 93 VR4 -- only $479. $486 at my
door. This was by far the best
price
>It was purchased from
Jeg's High Performance -
800-345-4545.
>
>http://webstore.jegs.com/cgi-bin/Jegs1.storefront/1490032616/Home?JEG's
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Feb 5 01:26:20 1999
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Date:
Fri, 5 Feb 1999 01:27:29 -0800 (PST)
From: George Kuo
<amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: SS-ARC
To:
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Hi List..
Does anyone know
what's a SS-ARC? Someone is trying to sell me one,
claims it replaces
the VPC or a ECU tune. Does anyone have one of
these products? or can
tell me anything about it?? Thanx.
George
3S#0139
'92 Pearl
White Dodge Stealth RT TT
K&N; Trust off-road exhaust (turbo back);
Forged rods and pistons;
13Gs; DSBC; AFC; HKS pump; Vitek wires; Momo
Competiton steering
wheel; C's short shift; Autopower roll bar; Simpson 5-pt
belt; Brembo
kit..
etc..
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU
YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
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subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From: "R.G."
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Team3S: Mods and True gains
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Dave,
The G60 guys I know pretty well here in
Europe swear on the K&N and JT filters.
Properly oiled they never had any
problem but I must admit that we have less
dust here in mid-Europe than
elsewhere.
Regards,
Roger
-----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
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From: "R.G."
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Arty,
The McLaren-Mercedes Formula 1 car uses a
huge K&N filter element as others do
in Nascar and Rally Racing.
Especially the last is the worst environment and
AFAIK I never heard of an
engine that died due to the sand comming into the
intake. The more they had
problems with the trannies or broken intercoolers.
I do more clean and
reoil the filter just to make sure real good
filteration.
-----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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Subject:
Team3S: Dyno session results !
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Ok guys ! As announced, the list members Jim Matthews,
Mike Chapleski and Roger
Gerl had a little 3-car gathering last Monday in
Zurich/Switzerland where we
spent some hours on a dyno.
We scanned the
different slips in and corrected the scales to be able to provide
a good
comparison. Please be patient as the figures are showing kW for power and
Nm
for torque and I haven't had the time to redo the sheets with SAE hp
and
lbs-ft for the torque. I'll try to do them over the weekend :)
The
outcome was very interesting and finally we learned some important
things.
Here I just summarize a few things up and for more information just
go to Jims
or my homepage for more detailed information.
Here the main
figures:
- Jims 94'Stealth : 406hp @ 5680 (SAE
corr.) 354 lb-ft @ 5180
- Mike's 95'Stealth : 403hp @ 6230 (SAE
corr.) 331 lb-ft @ 5210
- Roger's 93'3000GT : 402hp @ 5450 (SAE
corr.) 371 lb-ft @ 47601
The torque figure from Mike is too
low as he only boosted up to 0.89 bar
(12.9psi) while Jim and me both saw
1.00 bar (14.5psi). Also my curve ended
earlier as the winter tires started
to slip and I runned into the danger to
damage them on the dyno. Therefore I
expect some differences on the next session
in about a week.
With the
different mods (look at the table on my homepage) the following can be
said
:
We all have the stock fuel system and the timing got retarded when
trying to
increase boost over 1.00bar ! The IDC measured on Jims car showed
more than 95%
then and the A/F Ratio was not too rich but in the safe area.
This is definitely
the weak part on our cars and if you plan to go over 400hp
upgrades to the fuel
system is the first mod you have to do !!!
Jims
car had the best power with the stock exhaust system ! It doesn't give
you
any hp nor torque to add a DP, insert a testpipe or add a cat-back. They
will
only make sense when the precats are removed and are only a waste in
money if
you don't do anything against the detonation on boosts over 14.5psi
!
On the dyno spooling up the turbos is not important but it is on the
street.
There a dp can help as the turbos will spool up more free. But again,
only after
getting rid off the pre-cats will give you a major free-up in the
exhaust part.
The exhaust is the main difference between Mikes and Jims
car. On the sheets we
can see that the whole power curve is shifted to the
higher rpm area. But there
is also a loss in torque on the low-rpm. With the
same amount of boost as on our
cars the curve will be very close to Jims car
but the characteristic is still
lower around 3000.
On my 3000GT with
the stock 13G turbos the power curve is better in the lower
rpm area while
the torque made a big jump around the 4500 area. This is
definitely due to
the 13G turbos but they don't help you to give you any more
horses in the top
end ! The dyno proves this as Jims and my car where measured
within a half an
hour with the same ambient temperatures. I also have about the
same exhaust
mods as Mike but the power curve is shifted back the rpm due to the
bigger
turbos.
Mike brought a thermocouple with and we were able to measure the
intake
temperature in the y-pipe. Jims and Mikes Stealth had both readings
around the
104°C range while my 3000GT showed a peak of 93.4°C. The
fan wasn't that big on
the dyno but with the hood open it compensates the
lack of intercooling. The
lower temperature could be due to the bigger turbos
again or the better duct in
the front fascia. As Jim and I runned the same
boost the theory says that the
bigger compressor wheel doesn't heat up the
air so much like the 9B do. Makes
sense !
Last but not least, Mikes
car showed the best hp peak on his first run but the
curve peak alerted us as
it seemed that he runned into retarded timing. While
the others where on the
dyno he was able to regap his plugs as they where gapped
around 0.04x".
He choose a gap of 0.034" as Jim and I have and the run
afterwards did
not show any retard then. With cranking up boost again to our
level Mike for
sure had seen better torque figures then. But it was better to
stop for him
as the oil temp probe always was pushed out like mine did before
the rebuild
!
I'll add my next run after tuning in the AFC as well.
Visit the
dyno pages under
:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/3000gt.html
and Jims
homepage under
:
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Regards,
Roger
-----------------------
Roger
Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
K&N
FIPK,Magnecor wires,Blitz DSBC/gauge/Dual Timer,Apexi AFC,SBOV,ATR
DP/cat,
Borla,OZ Mito2,Yoko AVS-Z1,braided brake lines,Bremsa brakes,Pagid
RS-R pads
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Feb 5 04:42:08 1999
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From:
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To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Dyno session
results !
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:41:38 -0500
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Roger, Jim, Mike:
Nice work on the dyno
testing. I look forward to seeing the results when
injectors and fuel
pump are added.
-Bob
> Visit the dyno pages under :
>
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/3000gt.html
> and Jims
homepage under :
>
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Feb 5 04:54:48 1999
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Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 07:52:59
-0500
From: "Theiss, Charles"
<charles.theiss@lmco.com>
Subject: Team3S: Dyno results
To:
"'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
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Thanks for the update Roger. I
found it interesting that there appears to
be a loss of about 30% in HP from
the flywheel to the wheels. I always
thought that it was more like a
20% loss. Have you or Mike ever tested your
HP using the G-Tech and if
so how close to those results were the dyno
numbers? I know the 0-60
and the 1/4 times are fairly accurate but have no
way of verifying the
HP.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Feb 5 05:19:10 1999
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From: "Marc Spinale" <mspinale@mediaone.net>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Best kept
secret?
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:18:58 -0500
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It's come to my attention that Jegs may have discontinued
the line. I knew
it was too good to be true...
marc
>
-----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Bill
> Sent:
Friday, February 05, 1999 3:14 AM
> To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Best kept
secret?
>
>
> That's where I got mine, no one else was close,
I had to know the part #
> though because they didn't have a
clue.
>
> Believe the guys from Nexus sent me there when they didn't
have it...
>
> -Bill
>
>
>
> >After much
research, I picked up a Borla cat back system a few months ago
> >for
my 93 VR4 -- only $479. $486 at my door. This was by far the best
>
price
>
> >It was purchased from Jeg's High Performance -
800-345-4545.
> >
>
>http://webstore.jegs.com/cgi-bin/Jegs1.storefront/1490032616/Home?JEG's
>
>
>
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Feb 5 05:26:02 1999
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If anyone knows the
phone number for Mitsubishi technical assistance,
would
you
please post
it.
Thanks,
SteveC
'91 3000GT SL
Lomcevak@aol.com
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Feb 5 05:38:39 1999
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Subject: Re: Team3S: DOHC rocker arm ques.
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In a message dated 99-02-02 23:20:23
EST, you write:
<< Steve;
Don't know if anyone got back to
you on your query...hopefully someone posted
privately. If that occurs,
please note it here.
My educated guess is somewhat in synch with what you
surmise...possibly a
mixing
of numbers in reassembly. There's a 50% chance
this is right. Mayhap we'll
get an
educated response now, to
educated guessing :-)
Good luck >>
Have not posted anything due to no new info on it. I have measured
every
possible angle, distance, ect and see no difference in the rockers
regardless
of number stamped on them. Note that these are used rockers - so I
cannot be
sure of the original dimensions.
Either
way, I still have not been able to get the forward exhaust cam in
properly -
always get to much binding or friction. It is holding up the entire
project
at this point.
Im going to try my last resort, calling the
mits tech folks - just to
ensure that they have no idea as well
<G>.
Now if I can just find that
number...........
SteveC
'91
3000GT SL
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Feb 5 06:00:55 1999
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From:
"Bob Fontana" <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: DOHC rocker arm
ques.
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:00:23 -0500
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For what it's worth, the cam bearing caps are
numbered. Intakes are stamped
I2, I3, I4 and have an arrow that
indicates which way they face. Same thing
with exhaust caps. You
must match the arrows on each cap, including the
ones on each end of the cams
with the arrows stamped on the casting of the
cylinder head. If my
memory is correct, the arrows on each head face
opposite
directions.
Anyway, it is important not to mix the bearing caps up or
your cams will
bind up.
Here is how they go:
Front
of motor
EE II
II EE <- end caps
E2
I2 I2 E2
E3
I3 I3 E3
E4
I4 I4 I4
EE
II II EE <- end
caps
Rear of motor
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of
>
Lomcevak@aol.com
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 8:38 AM
> To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: Re: Team3S: DOHC rocker arm
ques.
>
>
> In a message dated 99-02-02 23:20:23 EST, you
write:
>
> << Steve;
>
> Don't know if
anyone got back to you on your query...hopefully
> someone
posted
> privately. If that occurs, please note it
here.
>
> My educated guess is somewhat in synch with what you
surmise...possibly a
> mixing
> of numbers in reassembly.
There's a 50% chance this is right.
> Mayhap we'll
> get
an
> educated response now, to educated guessing
:-)
>
> Good luck
>>
>
> Have not posted anything
due to no new info on it. I have
> measured every
> possible angle,
distance, ect and see no difference in the
> rockers regardless
> of
number stamped on them. Note that these are used rockers - so
> I cannot
be
> sure of the original
dimensions.
> Either way, I still have not
been able to get the forward
> exhaust cam in
> properly - always
get to much binding or friction. It is holding
> up the entire
>
project at this point.
> Im going to try my last
resort, calling the mits tech folks - just to
> ensure that they have no
idea as well <G>.
>
> Now if I can
just find that number...........
>
>
SteveC
> '91 3000GT SL
>
> For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Feb 5 06:15:30 1999
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Thanks for the
reply Bob. I have no problem with the caps. The manual
outlined exactly the
same things you specified, however it says nothing about
the rockers. When I
mount the cam without installing the rockers, and torque
the caps down, the
cam is nice and free. It is only with the rockers in place
that I get the
binding.
I think I either have a rocker problem or a valve stem
height problem.
Again, thanks for the
reply,
SteveC
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Feb 5 06:41:40 1999
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Mods and True gains -
getting long
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Hey guys, lets keep this in perspective.
I have no compunction about
using the K&N -air quality be dammed. In
fact I use the worst of the bunch
in air filtration, the HKS duel super maga
flow. I was just stating a fact
about
air quality give backs for better
performance. Look, if we wanted our cars
to last a million miles we can
drive it like a big fat Buick. Of course,
under spirited driving you shorten
a cars life and add to maintenance costs.
If you want your car to last
forever don't even start it up. Just look at it.
Our objectives are usually
performance, some of us may be more interested in
longevity. The two are not
the same. It stands to reason if you build a race
car, its not going to last
as long as a stock factory setup. Nor, would you
expect it to.
Arty 91
VR-4
In a message dated 2/5/99 3:57:07 AM Pacific Standard
Time,
robby@swissonline.ch writes:
<< Subj: Re: Team3S: Mods and
True gains - getting long
Date: 2/5/99 3:57:07 AM Pacific Standard
Time
From: robby@swissonline.ch (R.G.)
Sender:
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Reply-to:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Arty,
The McLaren-Mercedes Formula
1 car uses a huge K&N filter element as others
do
in Nascar and Rally
Racing. Especially the last is the worst environment and
AFAIK I never heard
of an engine that died due to the sand comming into the
intake. The more they
had problems with the trannies or broken intercoolers.
I do more clean
and reoil the filter just to make sure real good
filteration.
-----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
>>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Feb 5 07:09:18 1999
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!
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Roger, etc all.
Great stuff, thanks for the info. I can
hardly wait for one of you guys to get
set up with 15G's and some fuel to see
where we can safely go>>>
While your at the Dyno shop...PLEASE Get
The Name off the dyno of the Mfg.
Maybe, I can call them to see if they ever
installed one in the states?
Arty 91 VR-4
In a message dated 2/5/99
3:57:06 AM Pacific Standard Time,
robby@swissonline.ch
writes:
<< Subj: Team3S: Dyno session results !
Date: 2/5/99
3:57:06 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: robby@swissonline.ch (R.G.)
Sender:
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
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stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Ok
guys ! As announced, the list members Jim Matthews, Mike Chapleski
and
Roger
Gerl had a little 3-car gathering last Monday in
Zurich/Switzerland where we
spent some hours on a dyno.
We scanned the
different slips in and corrected the scales to be able to
provide
a good
comparison. Please be patient as the figures are showing kW for
power
and
Nm for torque and I haven't had the time to redo the sheets with
SAE hp and
lbs-ft for the torque. I'll try to do them over the weekend
:)
The outcome was very interesting and finally we learned some
important
things.
Here I just summarize a few things up and for more
information just go to
Jims
or my homepage for more detailed
information.
Here the main figures:
- Jims 94'Stealth
: 406hp @ 5680 (SAE corr.) 354 lb-ft @ 5180
- Mike's
95'Stealth : 403hp @ 6230 (SAE corr.) 331 lb-ft @ 5210
- Roger's
93'3000GT : 402hp @ 5450 (SAE corr.) 371 lb-ft @ 47601
>>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Feb 5 07:13:42 1999
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Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 09:22:12 -0600
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From: Wayne
<wala@hypertech-inc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re:
TSB's...
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<36BBE7B2.5FE85AFC@u.washington.edu>
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Feel free to correct me anyone, but it is my understanding
that a TSB is
nothing more than an "alert" of possible
problems to be aware of. For
example, the dealer might get a TSB that states
that on a paticular
vehicle, the glove box latch is weak, and will eventually
break. The dealer
may want to stock up on latches, to prepare themselves for
a potential
onslaught of vehicles coming in with glove boxes 'hanging
around'. These
are different than Recalls, which do get fixed for free,
weather the
vehicle is under warranty or not. You should get the problem
fixed for
free, but only if it is a recall, or if the part in question is
still under
warranty. Hope this helps.....
Wayne
At 10:56 PM 2/5/99 -0800, you wrote:
>Could somebody
please
>answer his question for me?
>
>My question is can we
take our cars to the dealerships
>& they'll fix the problems for free?
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
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From: "Barry E. King"
<beking@home.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Mods and True
gains - getting long
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:18:43 -0700
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The K&N reports for high mileage trucking companies
and race teams have to
be put into perspective. First off, an F1 engine
doesn't stay together for
more than a few 100s of miles. Long haul
trucking companies put literally
millions of miles on their vehicles in a
short period of time.
The real question for us is, does the K&N
degrade engine reliability say
within 150,000 miles? I kind of doubt
it, but maybe. *shrug*
I'll keep mine. I have to -- the only
filter made to fit the MASC is a big
K & N
=)
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
> Arty,
>
> The McLaren-Mercedes Formula 1 car
uses a huge K&N filter element
> as others do
> in Nascar and
Rally Racing. Especially the last is the worst
> environment and
>
AFAIK I never heard of an engine that died due to the sand
> comming into
the
> intake. The more they had problems with the trannies or
broken
> intercoolers.
>
> I do more clean and reoil the
filter just to make sure real good
> filteration.
>
>
-----------------------
> Roger Gerl, Switzerland
> 93'3000GT
TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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Subject: Re:
Team3S: Dyno results
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> Thanks for the update Roger. I found it
interesting that there appears to
> be a loss of about 30% in HP from the
flywheel to the wheels. I always
> thought that it was more like a
20% loss.
Mikes loss was 29.55% (18", 6-Speed), Jims 29.88%
(17", 6-Speed) and mine 27.85%
(17", 5-speed). The figures before
the rebuild showed a huge loss of 34.5% on
mine but I can't say where this
came from.
> HP using the G-Tech and if so how close to those results
were the dyno
> numbers?
I got around 254hp with the G-Tech. If
these are wheel hp then this is around
397 SAE hp calculated with the loss
and the correction. This sounds pretty
accurate to my measurments but I'll
redo this when I'm getting the thing back
from my Supra friend ! BTW, his
automatic Supra TT had a loss of 21%
-----------------------
Roger
Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
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Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 09:46:31 -0600
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From: Wayne
<wala@hypertech-inc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Drivetrain HP
losses
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If i may put my 2 cents in, this 30% sounds about right,
considering we are
talking about an AWD. On the dyno here at work, we
typically see 15% on
manual trans. vehicles, and about 25% on vehicles with
A/T's. Of course,
these are 2 wheel drive vehicles, thats why i say 30% for
an AWD sounds
reasonable.
Wayne
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Dyno
results
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:12:05 -0800
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Roger, Jim, Mike...
Thanks for the excellent
summary. The web pages are FANTASTIC!!!
I'm sure this information will
help many 3SI owners who have not yet
embarked on the mod journey. If I had
known this eighteen months ago, those
injectors, turbos, fuel pump and
intercoolers that are sitting in the garage
would be on my VR4, and the
exhaust system would be back at the
manufacturers (which would've netted me
the $$$ to finish my mods). Live and
learn!!!
Looking
forward...Chris
1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/HKS Super Flo intake, HKS
SBOV, Predator dry
cell battery, bored and polished throttle body, Magnecore
8.5mm wires, HKS
double platinum plugs gapped at .034", GReddy PRofec A
boost controller,
GReddy turbo timer, ATR downpipe and test pipe, GReddy
catback exhaust,
Eibach 1" drop progressive
springs)
-----Original Message-----
From: R.G.
[mailto:robby@swissonline.ch]
Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 8:27 AM
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Dyno
results
> Thanks for the update Roger. I found it
interesting that there appears to
> be a loss of about 30% in HP from the
flywheel to the wheels. I always
> thought that it was more like a
20% loss.
Mikes loss was 29.55% (18", 6-Speed), Jims 29.88%
(17", 6-Speed) and mine
27.85%
(17", 5-speed). The figures
before the rebuild showed a huge loss of 34.5%
on
mine but I can't say
where this came from.
> HP using the G-Tech and if so how close to
those results were the dyno
> numbers?
I got around 254hp with the
G-Tech. If these are wheel hp then this is
around
397 SAE hp calculated
with the loss and the correction. This sounds pretty
accurate to my
measurments but I'll redo this when I'm getting the thing
back
from my
Supra friend ! BTW, his automatic Supra TT had a loss of
21%
-----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT
TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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In a message dated 2/5/99 6:57:06 AM
Eastern Standard Time,
robby@swissonline.ch writes:
<<
Ok
guys ! As announced, the list members Jim Matthews, Mike Chapleski
and
Roger
Gerl had a little 3-car gathering last Monday in
Zurich/Switzerland where we
spent some hours on a dyno.
We scanned the
different slips in and corrected the scales to be able to
provide
a good
comparison. Please be patient as the figures are showing kW for
power
and
Nm for torque and I haven't had the time to redo the sheets with
SAE hp and
lbs-ft for the torque. I'll try to do them over the weekend
:)
The outcome was very interesting and finally we learned some
important
things.
Here I just summarize a few things up and for more
information just go to
Jims
or my homepage for more detailed
information.
Here the main figure >>
********Roger,Jim and
Mike,
GREAT JOB! This
kind of info is priceless. Thanks
for
sharing with
us.
Wayne 3SI
#87
'91 Stealth TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
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"
> Mikes loss was 29.55% (18", 6-Speed),
Jims 29.88% (17", 6-Speed) and mine 27.85%
> (17", 5-speed). The
figures before the rebuild showed a huge loss of 34.5% on
> mine but I
can't say where this came from.
Hi Roger,
How were these loss
figures obtained/calculated?
Thanks,
Ken
--
Ken
Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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Jep, me too :)
The time schedule says that I'll
pick the injectors up when I'm in States and
the fuel pump is ready. I doubt
that it makes sense to upgrade the fuel pump
only. So the next dyno will be
next week to tune in teh AFC with my current
setup and then by the end of
March for the fuel upgrade.
-----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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Arty,
> Great stuff, thanks for the info. I can
hardly wait for one of you guys to
> get set up with 15G's and some fuel
to see where we can safely go>>>
Hehe, time and money will tell
:)
> While your at the Dyno shop...PLEASE Get The Name off the dyno of
the Mfg.
> Maybe, I can call them to see if they ever installed one in the
states?
The dyno is made by MAHA in Germany. I was looking for more
information but was
not of luck. I can try to get an address in Germany where
we can ask the
next
time.
Later,
Roger
-----------------------
Roger
Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Feb 5 09:30:37 1999
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> How were these loss figures
obtained/calculated?
The car was driven up until power falled off and the
clutch was pressed very
quick. The dyno sees this and measure the resistance
on all wheels until it goes
back to almost 0 speed. The rolls are connected
to high power e-motors that are
controlled by the dyno and they act like a
generator in this phase. The operator
has to avoid any braking during this
period ! This is done on every run as the
rolls and tires get hot. Also
different gear ratios will give different loss and
with this the difference
is compensated to provide comparable
measures.
Regards,
Roger
-----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
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To:
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Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:28:21
-0600
Subject: Re: Team3S: RIP Mitsubishi 3000 GT
Message-ID:
<19990205.113525.-233189.0.SJC0U812@juno.com>
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stealth-3000gt
Hello to all:
I think many of you know got a real
good relationship with my local
dealer here in WI. So, I called my guy
in service and his take based on
their internal meeting is as
follows:
-yes, it's true, the 3000 is done
-the new Elise is the
"replacement," the car will not return
-they are only supporting
parts for seven years after date of
manufacturer (so for example, I own a
'92, for my car, they'll stop after
this year)
-the turbo will not be
revived
-the new Eclipse is bigger to attract the 3000 folks, and get more
new
Eclipse customers
Sad day indeed.
Scott
'92
VR4
On Thu, 04 Feb 1999 14:04:43 -0600 Jeff
Crabtree
<wjcrabtree@sprintmail.com> writes:
>I was @ the St.
Louis Auto show a couple of weeks ago, and I asked
>about the fate of
the
>3000 at the mitsu display. I was told that there will be no Y2K
>model, but the car will
>be back in 2001, completely
remodled. On a down note, I was also told
>that they plan
on
>doing away with the turbo version of the car. They said that
fewer
>and fewer people
>were willing to pay the premium price hike
for the increase in
>performance. R.I.P.
"TT"
___________________________________________________________________
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Feb 5 09:51:59 1999
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350hp awd 6 speed twinturbo vw BEETLE!!!
in the 99 car show 8)
Xannieria
3SI #130
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Feb 5 09:57:52 1999
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From:
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To:
"'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RIP Mitsubishi
3000 GT
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:58:34 -0800
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-----Original Message-----
From: Scott J Cowan
[mailto:sjc0u812@juno.com]
Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 9:28 AM
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: RIP Mitsubishi 3000
GT
I think many of you know got a real good relationship with my
local
dealer here in WI. So, I called my guy in service and his take
based on
their internal meeting is as follows:
-yes, it's true, the
3000 is done
<snip>
Sad day indeed.
Scott
'92
VR4
===============================
Scott...
>From a technical
perspective, I'm concerned about factory parts availability
over the years to
come.
>From a purely selfish perspective, I'll be glad to see it go.
I don't think
they've done the product line any favors since 1996, what with
appearance
changes, deletion of the Stealth, attempts to capture the low end
market by
dropping features, etc.
What we have will become more
valuable, more unusual, more striking, as
there are fewer and fewer of us on
the roads.
Looking forward...Chris
1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4
(w/HKS Super Flo intake, HKS SBOV, Predator dry
cell battery, bored and
polished throttle body, Magnecore 8.5mm wires, HKS
double platinum plugs
gapped at .034", GReddy PRofec A boost controller,
GReddy turbo timer,
ATR downpipe and test pipe, GReddy catback exhaust,
Eibach 1" drop
progressive springs)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Feb 5 10:00:31 1999
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Date:
Fri, 05 Feb 1999 10:00:23 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh
<middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Organization: General Atomics - Fusion
Division
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Subject: Team3S: Wheel to Flywheel HP
calculation
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> > Thanks for the update Roger. I found
it interesting that there appears to
> > be a loss of about 30% in HP
from the flywheel to the wheels. I always
> > thought that it was
more like a 20% loss.
>
> Mikes loss was 29.55% (18",
6-Speed), Jims 29.88% (17", 6-Speed) and mine 27.85%
> (17",
5-speed). The figures before the rebuild showed a huge loss of 34.5% on
>
mine but I can't say where this came from.
I need some clarification on
the conversion formulas between wheel and
flywheel HP.
For the
17" 5 speed, Is this accurate: Flywheel HP * ( 1 - 0.2785 ) =
HP
at wheels ?
OR, is the correct formula: Wheel HP * 1.2785 =
Flywheel HP ?
For example, lets say used a G-tech to measure my HP at the
wheels,
corrected the value for altitude and got 300HP. Is my flywheel
HP = 300
/ ( 1 - 0.2785 ) = 300 / .7215 = 415, or is it flywheel HP =
300 *
1.2785 = 383? My intuition says it is the second
forumla.
Thanks,
Ken
--
Ken Middaugh
General
Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
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From
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Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 14:10:42
-0500
From: "Theiss, Charles"
<charles.theiss@lmco.com>
Subject: Team3S: RE:Team 3s: RIP Mitsubishi
3000 GT
To: "'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
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Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
I think it is important to note that
with the demise of the 3000 this list
becomes even more important to those of
us who intend to continue our
ownership. Parts will become scarce and I
am sure that the aftermarket will
also dry up. Information on this list
will be invaluable in locating parts
and keeping our cars serviced
properly.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Feb 5 11:23:22 1999
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From: "bill"
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Subject: Team3S: What's a safe
PSI/CM/KG
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:16:23 -0800
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On an HKS EVC, what should I enter as
the max and Minimum CM/kg?
Car is '95 TT with Downpipe, K&N, highflow
cat, borla exhaust
-Thanks
-Bill
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Feb 5 11:35:42 1999
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Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:30:36
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Subject: Re: Team3S: RIP Mitsubishi 3000 GT
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Chris:
On Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:58:34 -0800
Chris Winkley
<cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com> writes:
>From a
technical perspective, I'm concerned about factory parts
>availability
>over the years to come.
I guess I am also
concerned on other things, like maybe the price of 17"
tires.
Seems like most of the cars that ran those are also dying off.
>From a
purely selfish perspective, I'll be glad to see it go.
I guess I can't
agree with that statement on any terms.
I don't
>think
>they've done the product line any favors since 1996, what
with
>appearance
>changes, deletion of the Stealth, attempts to
capture the low end
>market by
>dropping features, etc.
That may be true, but I now am actually having thoughts on whether or
not
it is more prudent strictly from a future financial situation to sell
my
car.
>What we have will become more valuable, more unusual, more
striking,
>as
>there are fewer and fewer of us on the
roads.
Your probably right, but my car is my daily driver, and I depend
on it to
no end. Also, I have yet to get ahead of it when it comes
to
maintenance. If the costs of PM and or normal failure and higher
parts
prices should occur, the out look of hanging on to it is not
good.
>Looking
forward...Chris
Scott
___________________________________________________________________
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don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
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From: Wayne
<wala@hypertech-inc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Wheel to Flywheel HP
calculation
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<36BB31B7.4CBA0AB7@omega.gat.com>
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Being as there are so many factors to consider when it
comes to the
efficiency (or inefficiency) of a paticular drivetrain, the only
REAL way
to compute the HP losses is to take what the manufacturer says the
HP is as
gospel, (because they advertise flywheel HP) put the vehicle on a
dyno, and
calculate the differences between the two. This value will not be
the same
from one vehicle to another. Without both of these HP values, there
is no
way to calculate the percent of drivetrain loss, unless you would like
to
examine each and every component of the drivetrain system, and
make
hundreds of calculations concerning friction, sprung and unsprung
weight,
drag, material properties, ambient temps, etc, etc...A good rule of
thumb
is 10-15% for manual trans, 20-25% for A/T, and now we have ~30%
for AWD
manual trans. This is just my take on this subject, since iv'e
been
involved in dozens of dyno sessions on a wide variety of
vehicles.
Wayne
At 10:00 AM 2/5/99 -0800, you wrote:
>I
need some clarification on the conversion formulas between wheel
and
>flywheel HP.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date:
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From: Ken Middaugh
<middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Organization: General Atomics - Fusion
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To:
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Subject: Re: Team3S: What's a safe
PSI/CM/KG
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bill wrote:
>
> On an HKS EVC, what should I
enter as the max and Minimum CM/kg?
>
> Car is '95 TT with
Downpipe, K&N, highflow cat, borla exhaust
I'm not sure what CM/kg
is. Use 15 psi as a safe value for 92 octane
fuel. There is a
pretty good units converter
at
http://www.xs4all.nl/~janderk/science/unitconverter/. It gives 15
psi =
77.57 cm/hg.
Good luck,
Ken
--
Ken
Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
For
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
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Subject: Re: Team3S: RIP Mitsubishi 3000
GT
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Scott J Cowan wrote:
> You're probably
right, but my car is my daily driver, and I depend on it to
> no
end. Also, I have yet to get ahead of it when it comes to
>
maintenance. If the costs of PM and or normal failure and higher
parts
> prices should occur, the out look of hanging on to it is not
good.
Scott....sell it, buy a dependable 100 miles to the gallon daily
driver, avoid the
hassel of depreciation (likely to occur for a couple more
years) and the anxiety of
worry over disappearing parts... and let someone
buy it who will appreciate it for what
it is: a mythical machine that is
bound to grow in automotive legends and be babied by
those who love and want
to own it.
Best
Darc
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Wheel to Flywheel HP calculation
References:
<013EA262D68AD211BE380000F805EF791ABCB3@emss20m03.ems.lmco.com>
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Wayne,
You're going about it the wrong way.
It is simple (relatively speaking)
and 100% accurate if you do it the
following way:
Measure horsepower on an all wheel drive dyno, then remove
the engine
and measure horsepower on an engine dyno. You would also
need to remove
all the intake and exhaust piping and also do not forget the
CPU and
fuel pump. Then just subtract both measurements and bingo you
have your
"Dead's on balls acurate" drivetrain horsepower loss
.
Later,
Jose Sinibaldi
Wayne wrote:
>
> Being
as there are so many factors to consider when it comes to the
> efficiency
(or inefficiency) of a paticular drivetrain, the only REAL way
> to
compute the HP losses is to take what the manufacturer says the HP is as
>
gospel, (because they advertise flywheel HP) put the vehicle on a dyno,
and
> calculate the differences between the two. This value will not be
the same
> from one vehicle to another. Without both of these HP values,
there is no
> way to calculate the percent of drivetrain loss, unless you
would like to
> examine each and every component of the drivetrain system,
and make
> hundreds of calculations concerning friction, sprung and
unsprung weight,
> drag, material properties, ambient temps, etc, etc...A
good rule of thumb
> is 10-15% for manual trans, 20-25% for A/T, and
now we have ~30% for AWD
> manual trans. This is just my take on this
subject, since iv'e been
> involved in dozens of dyno sessions on a wide
variety of vehicles.
>
> Wayne
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Subject: Re: Team3S: What's a safe
PSI/CM/KG
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Using the recent dyno results as a measuring device, and
assuming you are running stock
injectors and fuel pump, anything over 1 bar
(14.5 psi) may start to involve detonation.
So set it at 1 bar for your
maximum /ceiling. I didn't know there was minimum setting (I
run a SAVC-R)
but I expect .75 bar should be conservative enough. Someone else maybe
can
supply this information if they run your brand of
BC.
Best
Darc
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt
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From: "Bob Fontana"
<bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Wheel to Flywheel
HP calculation
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:24:13 -0500
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stealth-3000gt
I'm sure Wayne can elaborate himself but if I'm reading
him right, his
application of the "rule of thumb" is so that you
don't have to remove the
3S turbo motor with all of its piping and fuel
system in order to pinpoint
engine HP. When he says he's done a lot of
dyno work, I tend to believe
him, given his employer and their need for
engine dynos in order to
determine whether their products work or
not.
-Bob
> You're going about it the wrong way. It is
simple (relatively speaking)
> and 100% accurate if you do it the
following way:
>
> Measure horsepower on an all wheel drive dyno,
then remove the engine
> and measure horsepower on an engine dyno.
You would also need to remove
> all the intake and exhaust piping and also
do not forget the CPU and
> fuel pump. Then just subtract both
measurements and bingo you have your
> "Dead's on balls acurate"
drivetrain horsepower loss .
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 14:38:00 -0600
To:
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From: Wayne
<wala@hypertech-inc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Wheel to Flywheel HP
calculation
In-Reply-To:
<36BB50E8.3E406ADF@engin.umich.edu>
References:
<013EA262D68AD211BE380000F805EF791ABCB3@emss20m03.ems.lmco.com>
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Thanks for pointing this out, but i ommited this obvious
method because
only about 2% of the general population have access to an
engine dyno. And
the fact that it was so obvious, it wasn't really worth
mentioning. Thanks
though...
At 03:13 PM 2/5/99 -0500, you
wrote:
>Wayne,
>
>You're going about it the wrong way.
It is simple (relatively speaking)
>and 100% accurate if you do it the
following way:
>
>Measure horsepower on an all wheel drive dyno,
then remove the engine
>and measure horsepower on an engine dyno.
You would also need to remove
>all the intake and exhaust piping and also
do not forget the CPU and
>fuel pump. Then just subtract both
measurements and bingo you have your
>"Dead's on balls acurate"
drivetrain horsepower loss .
>
>Later,
>
>Jose
Sinibaldi
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Feb 5 13:36:37 1999
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Subject: Re:
Team3S: Wheel to Flywheel HP calculation
References:
<013EA262D68AD211BE380000F805EF791ABCB3@emss20m03.ems.lmco.com>
<36BB1BD7.5F6AA24B@swissonline.ch>
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> You're going about it the wrong way. It is
simple (relatively speaking)
> and 100% accurate if you do it the
following way:
<snip the unbrained puzzle way>
Please reread
my post upon how the dyno got the loss. Of course every car is
different and
even my winter tires made a difference. Also the loss is different
in any
gear but also then the rearwheel hp. Calculating the loss together with
the
rear-wheel hp gives you again the correct engine horses.
No offence broh,
but it's easier to use the brain and a calculator than striping
the car
down.
-----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT
TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Feb 5 13:36:42 1999
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Subject: Re:
Team3S: Wheel to Flywheel HP calculation
References:
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<36BB1BD7.5F6AA24B@swissonline.ch>
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Ken,
Of course, each car has its own drivetrain
loss (tranny oil ??). As mine is a
5-speed with 17" here are the figures
written on my sheet :
P-Wheel : 188.0kW
(252hp)
P-Loss : 73.5kW (98.7hp)
P-Engine : 261.5kW
(350.7hp, uncorrected)
Now the figure has to be SAE corrected and this
can not only be done by a
multiplication as the dyno does this upon the
measured figures. Don't ask me
what it does (Wayne ?)
For the G-Tech
figures the following page gives a good explanation how to
calculate Flywheel
hp :
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/9190/g-tech.html
It works very
well for manual rear/front wheel driven cars but I'm not sure
about
automatics or AWD.
Hope this helps. I'll check out with the G-Tech when
the Supra guy ends playing
with it :)
-----------------------
Roger
Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Feb 5 14:18:08 1999
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To:
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Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:17:04
-0600
Subject: Re: Team3S: RIP Mitsubishi 3000 GT
Message-ID:
<19990205.161707.-233189.5.SJC0U812@juno.com>
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stealth-3000gt
Darc:
On Fri, 05 Feb 1999 12:04:09 -0800
wce@bc.sympatico.ca writes:
>Scott....sell it, buy a dependable 100 miles
to the gallon daily
>driver, avoid the
>hassel of depreciation
(likely to occur for a couple more years) and
>the anxiety
of
>worry over disappearing parts... and let someone buy it who will
>appreciate it for what
>it is: a mythical machine that is bound to
grow in automotive legends
>and be babied by
>those who love and
want to own it.
I think you're missing my point here. I saved my
last cent to get this
car. I also borrowed form Peter, robbed Paul,
etc. It's truly my
favorite thing in life right now, next to my
kids. I do everything I can
for this car, as really it's much more than
a transportation issue to me.
But you knew that. This is strictly from
my wallet's stand point, and
the fact if it does go down, I unfortunately
don't have the kind of money
where I can afford to replace it with anything
else reasonable at this
time. I would really prefer to never drive
another kind of car, now that
I've owned one, and drive it every day through
sun and snow. Appreciate
it? I guess I take issue with you and
that statement, or I wouldn't be
here to begin with. It's strictly a
matter of I strung myself out here
quite a bit here to capture one and
maintain it, and odds are it looks
like that expense may go up. I was
simply trying to, as usual, ask
questions, get opinions, and share and help
in any way I can with my
other fellow Team 3S members. I realize I
don't have a ton of experience
working on these cars, but I do love them, and
try real hard to do what I
can with what I have to work with. But
sometimes, love can even go bad.
If I could work out owning one of these
cars forever, I surely would. I
guess I just haven't hit the lotto
yet. Hope that clears up my
point.
Scott
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Feb 5 14:25:36 1999
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Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 16:34:05 -0600
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From: Wayne
<wala@hypertech-inc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Wheel to Flywheel HP
calculation
In-Reply-To:
<36BB71D2.C3CE5B82@swissonline.ch>
References:
<013EA262D68AD211BE380000F805EF791ABCB3@emss20m03.ems.lmco.com>
<36BB1BD7.5F6AA24B@swissonline.ch>
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Roger,
I cant say that all dyno manufacturers use the
same methods to compute
corrected HP, but Dynojet (which is the brand i have
experience with) takes
values input by the user for ambient air temp and
humidity, along with the
measured HP and baro pressure, and computes what the
HP would be at
predetermined temp and humidity. This method produces more
repeatable
readings from one pull to the next. In other words, your vehicle
will
produce less and less power as the engine/drivetrain/test site heat up
with
each pull, but the corrected HP (and torque, by the way) will remain
fairly
consistant, because it is corrected to "standard" ambient
conditions. Not
sure about the standard values used, probably along the lines
of 68-74deg.
F, 50% humidity, baro 30. but thats just a
guess.
Wayne
At 10:33 PM 2/5/99 +0000, you wrote:
>Now
the figure has to be SAE corrected and this can not only be done by
a
>multiplication as the dyno does this upon the measured figures. Don't
ask me
>what it does (Wayne ?)
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From
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From: "Gross,
Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
To:
"'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RIP Mitsubishi
3000 GT
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:43:11 -0800
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Hey guys, just a thought, but have you thought about the
fact that Mitsu is
still gonna have the drivetrain from the VR-4 (TT 3.0V6)
in the Mad Max? Or
so my dealer tells me, anyway. So, I'd think
most of the major parts
wouldn't be that hard to find. As for the
Getrag, well, that's another can
o
worms:)
--Erik
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott J
Cowan [mailto:sjc0u812@juno.com]
Subject: Re: Team3S: RIP Mitsubishi 3000
GT
<snip>
This is strictly from my wallet's stand point,
and
the fact if it does go down, I unfortunately don't have the kind of
money
where I can afford to replace it with anything else reasonable at
this
time.
<snip>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
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From owner-stealth-3000gt
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From: Ken Middaugh
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Organization: General Atomics - Fusion
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Subject: Team3S: Re: Wheel to Flywheel HP
calculation
References:
<013EA262D68AD211BE380000F805EF791ABCB3@emss20m03.ems.lmco.com>
<36BB1BD7.5F6AA24B@swissonline.ch> <36BB31B7.4CBA0AB7@omega.gat.com>
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So based on your results, the approximate loss factor for
the 17" wheel
5 speed is 73.5 / 261.5 = 28.107%. Therefore the
formula to calculate
Flywheel HP is: Wheel HP * ( 1 / ( 1 - .28107 )) =
Wheel HP * 1.391.
I'm amazed that this multiplication factor is so
large! Is there a flaw
in my deduction?
I couldn't make any
sense of the web site you gave. The guy
mysteriously produced
multiplication values of 1.2 and 1.25 for his (I
assume 2wd)
cars.
"R.G." wrote:
>
> Ken,
>
> Of
course, each car has its own drivetrain loss (tranny oil ??). As mine is
a
> 5-speed with 17" here are the figures written on my sheet
:
>
> P-Wheel : 188.0kW (252hp)
> P-Loss
: 73.5kW (98.7hp)
> P-Engine : 261.5kW (350.7hp,
uncorrected)
>
> Now the figure has to be SAE corrected and this
can not only be done by a
> multiplication as the dyno does this upon the
measured figures. Don't ask me
> what it does (Wayne ?)
>
>
For the G-Tech figures the following page gives a good explanation how
to
> calculate Flywheel hp :
>
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/9190/g-tech.html
>
> It works
very well for manual rear/front wheel driven cars but I'm not sure
> about
automatics or AWD.
>
> Hope this helps. I'll check out with the
G-Tech when the Supra guy ends playing
> with it :)
>
>
-----------------------
> Roger Gerl, Switzerland
> 93'3000GT
TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
--
Ken Middaugh
General
Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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From: "Gross,
Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
To: "'Starnet 3Si Mailing
List'"
<stealth@starnet.net>,
"'Dragnet 3S Mailing List'" <stealth@dragnet.com>
Subject:
Team3S: 5-speed problems, part II (advice requested)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999
15:19:51 -0800
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Ok, here's the meat of the 3 responses I've received so
far:
For those of you who read the responses the first time,
please pardon
the repetition...
(one note: I *don't* have a Getrag 5-speed, so my
tranny
is serviceable by the
dealer. It's made by Mitsu.)
> From: Pegleg Pete
[mailto:Forrest_@ix.netcom.com]
>
> This same problem was
experienced in my '94 6 spd.
> Much worse when cold. The fix was
easy.
> General Motors synthetic Syncro Mesh oil.
> From:
Marc Spinale [mailto:mspinale@mediaone.net]
>
> My 93 transmission
(#2 from Mitsu) had the exact same problem
> you describe (1st to 2nd). I
believe it's definitely an
> internal defect. In my case, a rebuilt
tranny was installed
> to fix another problem and the new problem you
describe
> began. I made the mistake of assuming that they
simply
> adjusted the cables incorrectly.
>
> It had
resistance going into 2nd gear from 1st. It did not
> happen all
the time but often enough to be a nuisance.
>
> I wonder if the
dealer put the wrong fluid in it. Almost
> sounds like there's heavy
weight gear fluid inside.
> I would go back to the dealer and insist that
they fix it.
> From: Ron Thompson [mailto:rtetetet@earthlink.net]
>
> Try changing the trany fluid. My Eclise trany
> shifted
lousy with Valvoline gear oil but was ok
> with Quaker State. The temp has
alot to to do with
> your situation, trany temo won't come up for
some
> time after the engine temp and gear oil is really
> ornery
when cold. All of the problems you describe
> were the same in my Eclipse
and my 96 VR4 is real
> notchy in the morning.
So,
as for the GM SynchroMesh, I know there was a TSB or factory
recommendation
about a year ago for dealers to switch gear oils in the
5-speeds on the NA
cars from whatever they were using to something that if I
recall correctly
was some GM product (I will ask them about this). In any
case, when my
tranny was rebuild a month ago, the gear oil was replaced with
whatever GM
product (Synchro Mesh sounds right) Mitsu is recommending at
the
moment. So one would think (naively?) that whatever's best for my
tranny is
in there now, right?
I guess the rough shifting in cold weather
is fairly common in
Mitsu/Getrag transmissions (acceptable or not). As
long as it doesn't get
any worse in my case, I can deal with it.
However the gear grinding I
mentioned originally (see #2 below if you missed
my first post) really
troubles me (let me take a moment p p Poughkeepsie
:) ok, I feel better
now. But seriously, you guys think the
grinding crap is something to shut
up and deal with or something to go back
to the dealer about...and probably
have to a) get them to do something about
it and b) be without my car for
14.26 months. Ugh. So you think
it's normal/ok (happens very
infrequently), or is it the beginnings of a
problem that I should get taken
care of? Thanks a lot for your
advice/input,
guys:)
--Erik
------
----------
Erik
Gross
DuPont, WA
'95 Pearl White 3000GT 47k mi - resonatorless + bald tire
mod
------
----------
"Without somehow destroying me in the process,
how could
God reveal Himself in a way that would leave no
room for
doubt? If there were no room for doubt,
there would be
no room for
me."
--Frederick
Buechner
-------------------------------------------------------------
Original
Post by me:
I've got a question for those of you who know a decent amount
about
trannies. I just had my (mitsu) 5-speed rebuilt by my dealer,
under
warranty, (1st, 2nd synchros replaced, 1st, 2nd gear bearings replaced)
and
the notchy shifting I had experienced before is reduced and eliminated
in
some cases. However sometimes, especially when it's cold, the
shifter is
still really notchy, and a couple of times has even ground the
gears (1st
and 2nd).
Symptoms(all with clutch on the floor, fully
disengaged- yes, it's adjusted
properly):
1) two-phase shifting-
shifter goes about halfway into gear, reaches
resistance, and then slips all
the way into gear. (maybe synchro/collar
contact, followed by
collar/gear contact?) Worse when cold.
2) (about 3 times in the
last month) really cacophonous gear grating
noise...example conditions:
just started out of parking lot after work (40F
and car's been sitting for 9
hours), 1st is fine(going easy), get to 3500RPM
or so, decide to shift to
2nd, shifter comes halfway back, meets resistance,
pull a little harder,
nasty grinding noise, put it back in neutral, try
again for 2nd after having
everyone in the parking lot staring at me, 2nd
engages smoothly, I leave
parking lot with tail between legs.
This doesn't seem normal to me,
and the second symptom, although very
infrequent and only when cold(so far)is
very troubling. #2 happened once
while trying to downshift to 1st while
going 7.36mph and attempting to
rev-match, too.
So, any ideas?
Should I go back to the dealer? Maybe the synchros aren't
sticky enough
at low temperatures? (Technical: low coefficient of friction
at the
synchro/collar interface in cold conditions?) Does our layshaft have
a
HUGE rotational inertia or something? Is my tranny a piece of
crap?
Comments, please... :)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt
Fri Feb 5 15:35:21 1999
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To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: RIP Mitsubishi 3000
GT
References:
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Scott;
No probs. I understand and understood. The
best money you can get for it is now, unless
you want to wait until they
start to appreciate. Maintenance is not as bad as you fear
once you start to
get your hands greasy and invoke the aid/help of members who
have
benderdondat. But, if you are stretched too thin, then as Peter's
Principle states,
things will go wrong (shit happens). FWIW parts are still
cheap for stock cars as
members upgrade and sell off their no longer wanted
parts...plently of turbos,
injectors, brake parts, air cleaner filters, etc.
Just start checking member websites
and you'll see parts for sale cheap. IMO
it's worth keeping...an investment...unless
you're going to starve your
family to keep it. Too many miles also starts to take a
toll. It's your life,
keep it or sell it and get the daily
commuter,
Best
Darc
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: 5-speed problems, part II
(advice requested)
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stealth-3000gt
Erik;
My 92 TT Stealth doesn't grind (knock on
wood) but is a bit notchy at times when cold.
This goes away relatively
quickly...but our cold is everyone else's mild winter. I
digress...to
reiterate notchiness is a given with these, but grinding is not! Get
that:
NOT NORMAL!! Get it looked at...synchros could be on their way out and
that is not an
envialble thing. It's time to establish a paper trail
with the dealer (ie on this given
day this problem was noted as the beginning
of a problem) Have it etched in stone! Take
no
prisoners.
Best
Darc
Gross, Erik wrote:
> Ok,
here's the meat of the 3 responses I've received so far:
> For those of
you who read the responses the first time,
> please pardon the
repetition...
>
> (one note: I *don't* have a Getrag 5-speed,
so my tranny
> is serviceable by
the dealer. It's made by Mitsu.)
>
> > From: Pegleg Pete
[mailto:Forrest_@ix.netcom.com]
> >
> > This same problem was
experienced in my '94 6 spd.
> > Much worse when cold. The fix
was easy.
> > General Motors synthetic Syncro Mesh oil.
>
>
> From: Marc Spinale [mailto:mspinale@mediaone.net]
> >
> >
My 93 transmission (#2 from Mitsu) had the exact same problem
> > you
describe (1st to 2nd). I believe it's definitely an
> > internal
defect. In my case, a rebuilt tranny was installed
> > to fix another
problem and the new problem you describe
> > began. I made the
mistake of assuming that they simply
> > adjusted the cables
incorrectly.
> >
> > It had resistance going into 2nd gear
from 1st. It did not
> > happen all the time but often enough to
be a nuisance.
> >
> > I wonder if the dealer put the wrong
fluid in it. Almost
> > sounds like there's heavy weight gear
fluid inside.
> > I would go back to the dealer and insist that they
fix it.
>
> > From: Ron Thompson
[mailto:rtetetet@earthlink.net]
> >
> > Try changing the trany
fluid. My Eclise trany
> > shifted lousy with Valvoline gear oil but
was ok
> > with Quaker State. The temp has alot to to do with
>
> your situation, trany temo won't come up for some
> > time after
the engine temp and gear oil is really
> > ornery when cold. All of the
problems you describe
> > were the same in my Eclipse and my 96 VR4 is
real
> > notchy in the
morning.
>
> So, as
for the GM SynchroMesh, I know there was a TSB or factory
> recommendation
about a year ago for dealers to switch gear oils in the
> 5-speeds on the
NA cars from whatever they were using to something that if I
> recall
correctly was some GM product (I will ask them about this). In any
>
case, when my tranny was rebuild a month ago, the gear oil was replaced
with
> whatever GM product (Synchro Mesh sounds right) Mitsu is
recommending at the
> moment. So one would think (naively?) that
whatever's best for my tranny is
> in there now,
right?
> I guess the rough
shifting in cold weather is fairly common in
> Mitsu/Getrag transmissions
(acceptable or not). As long as it doesn't get
> any worse in my
case, I can deal with it. However the gear grinding I
> mentioned
originally (see #2 below if you missed my first post) really
> troubles me
(let me take a moment p p Poughkeepsie :) ok, I feel better
>
now. But seriously, you guys think the grinding crap is something to
shut
> up and deal with or something to go back to the dealer about...and
probably
> have to a) get them to do something about it and b) be without
my car for
> 14.26 months. Ugh. So you think it's normal/ok
(happens very
> infrequently), or is it the beginnings of a problem that I
should get taken
> care of? Thanks a lot for your advice/input,
guys:)
>
> --Erik
>
>
------
----------
> Erik
Gross
DuPont, WA
> '95 Pearl White 3000GT 47k mi - resonatorless + bald tire
mod
>
------
----------
> "Without somehow destroying me in the
process, how could
> God reveal Himself in a way
that would leave no room for
> doubt? If
there were no room for doubt, there would be
> no
room for
me."
--Frederick Buechner
>
-------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Original Post by
me:
>
> I've got a
question for those of you who know a decent amount about
> trannies.
I just had my (mitsu) 5-speed rebuilt by my dealer, under
> warranty,
(1st, 2nd synchros replaced, 1st, 2nd gear bearings replaced) and
> the
notchy shifting I had experienced before is reduced and eliminated in
>
some cases. However sometimes, especially when it's cold, the shifter
is
> still really notchy, and a couple of times has even ground the gears
(1st
> and 2nd).
>
> Symptoms(all with clutch on the floor,
fully disengaged- yes, it's adjusted
> properly):
>
> 1)
two-phase shifting- shifter goes about halfway into gear, reaches
>
resistance, and then slips all the way into gear. (maybe
synchro/collar
> contact, followed by collar/gear contact?) Worse
when cold.
>
> 2) (about 3 times in the last month) really
cacophonous gear grating
> noise...example conditions: just started
out of parking lot after work (40F
> and car's been sitting for 9 hours),
1st is fine(going easy), get to 3500RPM
> or so, decide to shift to 2nd,
shifter comes halfway back, meets resistance,
> pull a little harder,
nasty grinding noise, put it back in neutral, try
> again for 2nd after
having everyone in the parking lot staring at me, 2nd
> engages smoothly,
I leave parking lot with tail between legs.
>
> This doesn't seem
normal to me, and the second symptom, although very
> infrequent and only
when cold(so far)is very troubling. #2 happened once
> while trying
to downshift to 1st while going 7.36mph and attempting to
> rev-match,
too.
>
> So, any ideas? Should I go back to the dealer?
Maybe the synchros aren't
> sticky enough at low temperatures? (Technical:
low coefficient of friction
> at the synchro/collar interface in cold
conditions?) Does our layshaft have
> a HUGE rotational inertia or
something? Is my tranny a piece of crap?
> Comments, please...
:)
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date:
Fri, 05 Feb 1999 17:00:08 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh
<middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Organization: General Atomics - Fusion
Division
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Wheel to Flywheel HP
calculation
References:
<013EA262D68AD211BE380000F805EF791ABCB3@emss20m03.ems.lmco.com>
<36BB1BD7.5F6AA24B@swissonline.ch> <36BB31B7.4CBA0AB7@omega.gat.com>
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"R.G." wrote:
>
> Ken,
>
> Of course, each car has its own drivetrain loss (tranny oil ??). As
mine is a
> 5-speed with 17" here are the figures written on my sheet
:
>
> P-Wheel : 188.0kW (252hp)
> P-Loss
: 73.5kW (98.7hp)
> P-Engine : 261.5kW (350.7hp,
uncorrected)
>
> Now the figure has to be SAE corrected and this
can not only be done by a
> multiplication as the dyno does this upon the
measured figures. Don't ask me
> what it does (Wayne ?)
I would
guess this correction is for altitude. Based on the included
post
below, I'd say the altitude of the dyno facility you were at is
3483 feet
above sea level.
<<< Included post from Jeffrey Young
Hey
everybody;
I found a site that has a program for calculating corrected
horsepower
for different altitudes and
temperatures. Its located
at
http://www.mind.net/rabcomp/html/about_hc2.html . By working
backwards,
I
have come up with a formula to calculate what the corrected
HP would be
if your using a G-Tech and
running at an altitude other than
sea level
Corrected HP = Actual HP * ((Altitude / 1000 *
.042)+1)
Now the last months issue of Super Street (I think) that had
the
articles on installing a VPC & NOS to a 3S,
and using a G-Tech for
tuning.....said to multiply your G-Tech HP, which
is an 'at the wheels' HP
rating by
1.2 to get a flywheel HP rating. I'm not sure about this
amount..20%
seems like a high loss for drivetrain and
wind
resistance....
Jeffrey
>>>
--
Ken
Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Feb 5 17:28:52 1999
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Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
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Subject: Team3S: Synchros: Good news!
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I just talked with Randy at BRE engines about
repairing/rebuilding transaxles
in the 3000GT/Stealth AWD. It sounds like he
can help us!
I explained to him that there are no tranny parts or
technical documentation
available for these cars and that he would have to
manufacture the needed
components or adapt them from other cars. He explained
that they are a drag
racing company that races everything from rail cars to
modified street cars.
In an attempt to improve the operation of trannys in
street cars, they have
often had to manufacture custom components themselves
(actually, I think he
said they have vendors do it for them).
The
quality of their tranny work was endorsed in the following testimonial
about
BRE - posted by Vernon Naidoo on DSM Digest awhile back:
>>In the
last week or so I've noticed a couple of emails complaining
about the crappy
AWD transmissions. I thought I introduce those
interested to a company called
BRE Engines (San Jose, CA), which does
a nice mod on DSM transmissions that
eliminates almost all that
crappiness (if such a word exists). I was out in
California two
weekends back, and had a chance to test drive a '91 Talon that
had
just come out of BRE Engines shop, and I must admit that I was
very
impressed. Jeff, the owner, assured me that I could shift as fast as
I
wanted to, and at any rpm, and will never have a problem. My test
drive
could not prove him wrong.
Jeff is known for almost all the work on David
Shih's Honda, and is
currently helping Todd Chaimparino with his '91 Eclipse
to achieve
some similar HP. Todd currently boasts BRE Engines tranny
mod, and
has already made a couple of 12s test passes at the track with
no
complaints. If anyone is interested, contact Jeff at (408) 995-5750.
I
cannot give out any pricing info, as I got a special offer (friend
of
Todd's). I also cannot say what Jeff does to the tranny,
vendor
courtesy, but one can speculate.
Vernon Naidoo.
'91 Talon
AWD<<
Apparently, BRE has been getting a steady increase in
business from AWD
Eclipse/Talon owners who want to improve their car's
shifting operation. Randy
said they do some modifications to the synchros and
other parts in the tranny.
I told him I would pass on this information to see
if anyone is interested in
having their tranny reconditioned. I suggested
that if he could make
aftermarket synchro sets available for the AWD
3000GT/Stealth, there would be
a large demand for them - especially if they
were improvements over the stock
ones.
So, if anyone out there is
interested in having some tranny work done, give
these guys a call (408)
995-575) or contact them via email:
breracing1@aol.com. I got the impression
that these guys know what they are
doing as they currently hold two world
records. Also keep in mind that they
can improve the operation of a good
tranny as well as repair a bad one.
If BRE ends up doing some work on
your car PLEASE encourage them to take
measurements of the various components
so they can duplicate them and make
them available for sale.
I'll be
out of town all weekend - check back w/ you on Monday.
Paul
Klusman
Oh yeah, two more items of interest:
- They make their
synchros out of solid brass. They claim that solid brass
works better than
steel w/ brass plating.
- They use a synthetic oil called
"Amsoil" in their trannys and engines.
Apparently works better than
Redline.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
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Date: Sat, 06 Feb
1999 02:16:08
From: Mark Creekmore <mcreekmore@usa.net>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Suspension
Upgrade
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I talked to Jay at Ground Control. I
wanted to order a set of adjustable springs like the ones that Barry recomended
(550 # front, 350 # rear). Jay said that the 350 # springs are also used
in the front of some RX7s and they are in high demand. It will probably be
around six weeks before they get any more in. They do have 320 # springs
in stock. Should I wait for the 350 # springs to come in? Is 550/350
an important ratio? Has anyone tested several spring
rates?
Thanks,
Mark
Black '92 R/T, K&N
Filter, HKS dual tip exaust, Alamo Downpipe, Random Tech. Cat., HKS EVC IV,
Stillen Sport Rotor Kit (disks, pads, lines, fluid), Fittipaldi Tubolare
18" Rims, Sumitomo HTRZ II 245/45ZR18 Tires, Strut tower hood
scoop.
____________________________________________________________________
Get
free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Feb 5 18:43:47 1999
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Dyno session results
!
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Thanks Roger. Get any info you can on the Dyno company.
One of these days we
may find one here in the states.
Arty
In a
message dated 2/5/99 12:21:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
robby@swissonline.ch
writes:
<< Subj: Re: Team3S: Dyno session results !
Date: 2/5/99
12:21:46 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: robby@swissonline.ch
(R.G.)
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
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stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Arty,
> Great stuff, thanks for
the info. I can hardly wait for one of you guys to
> get set up with 15G's
and some fuel to see where we can safely go>>>
Hehe, time and
money will tell :)
> While your at the Dyno shop...PLEASE Get The Name
off the dyno of the Mfg.
> Maybe, I can call them to see if they ever
installed one in the states?
The dyno is made by MAHA in Germany. I was
looking for more information but
was
not of luck. I can try to get an
address in Germany where we can ask the
next
time.
Later,
Roger
>>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
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From: "Barry E. King"
<beking@home.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Suspension
Upgrade
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:48:09 -0700
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I don't know that the 550/350 lb spring combination is
magic or not - I hope
it is ;)
Jay and I decided on that rate because
it is roughly a 60/40 balance, not
unlike the car's weight
distribution. I tend to pitch the car into corners
rather aggressively
and prefer twisties over the 1320' which is why I opted
for a slightly more
aggressive setup. He felt it would be a good choice
given my
preferences and I concur. This will definitely be a firmer ride
than
the stiffest "lowering" springs out there but will easily
be
streetable. The benefit with the GC kit of course is that you get to
use
the whole suspension travel so the ride should be less harsh.
Even
320 lb in the rear is stiffer than most. You could either drop
the
front rate a little bit for more balance and use the 320s, or just go
with
the 550/320 combo. In my experience you don't really need a lot of
spring
in the rear of these cars so being slightly less shouldn't hurt.
Jay
personally set up a Stealth TT so he may be able to help you
decide.
The 320s are actually closer to a 60/40 split than the 350s, but
on the
softer side of the line.
I have yet to drive the car with the
GC springs I ordered, so my particular
setup is unproven. However, I am
very confident it will be just what I am
after. I chose to wait, for
whatever that is worth.
I also ordered GC's front camber plate universal
fitment kit. The TEIN deal
I had going fell through and the other
distributor for TEIN parts is more
expensive than GC's excellent
kits.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
>
> I talked to Jay at Ground
Control. I wanted to order a set of
> adjustable springs like the ones
that Barry recomended (550 #
> front, 350 # rear). Jay said that the
350 # springs are also
> used in the front of some RX7s and they are in
high demand. It
> will probably be around six weeks before they get
any more in.
> They do have 320 # springs in stock. Should I wait
for the 350 #
> springs to come in? Is 550/350 an important
ratio? Has anyone
> tested several spring rates?
>
>
Thanks,
>
> Mark
> Black '92 R/T, K&N Filter, HKS dual tip
exaust, Alamo Downpipe,
> Random Tech. Cat., HKS EVC IV, Stillen Sport
Rotor Kit (disks,
> pads, lines, fluid), Fittipaldi Tubolare 18"
Rims, Sumitomo HTRZ
> II 245/45ZR18 Tires, Strut tower hood
scoop.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
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From:
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To: "team 3si"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: suspension
upgrade
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:32:02 -0700
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Question concerning the front to rear
weight bias ???? I've seen 60/40 used
several times, however using the
numbers in the service manual [ gross axle
weights --- Vs. gross vehicle
weights ] I get a split of 54/46. Just
wondering if the 60/40 is a real
world number. The gross wt. number is
vehicle weight plus four 180# occupants
but I don't know if their weight is
a 50/50 distribution.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Feb 5 22:02:39 1999
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From: "Barry E. King"
<beking@home.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: suspension
upgrade
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:02:40 -0700
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Your numbers are likely closer to being correct. I
was guesstimating.
However, I am pretty certain I saw an article somewhwre
that claimed the
actual weight bias was a little closer to 60/40 than 50/50
with passengers.
Jay at GC seemed to think the car was also quite front heavy
based on his
tuning experience with the Stealth TT. Dunno. I do
know that my seat 'o
the pants acceleromter tells me the car is front heavy,
by how much I can
only postulate.
I do plan to corner balance the car
using scales. I will report my findings
at that time then we'll all
know.
In either case the front is typically going to take the brunt of
weight
transfer under braking and into turns. I won't mind a slightly
softer
rearward spring setup even if the weight bias is closer to 50/50 than
I have
presumed. The rear springs I currently have (RS*R) are softer
than the rear
by a significant amount and they feel reasonably well balanced
albeit
undersprung for my tastes. Not that the RS*Rs are bad springs,
in fact I
think they are quite good. Definitely an improvement over
stock and they
don't lower the car a ridiculous amount. Mine dropped
less than 1.5" but
more than 1.25".
I guess my RS*Rs will be
for sale when I get the GC kit sorted out. They
are about 8 months old
I think.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
>
> Question concerning the front to rear weight bias
???? I've seen
> 60/40 used
> several times, however using the
numbers in the service manual
> gross axle
> weights --- Vs.
gross vehicle weights ] I get a split of 54/46. Just
> wondering if
the 60/40 is a real world number. The gross wt. number is
> vehicle weight
plus four 180# occupants but I don't know if their
> weight is
> a
50/50 distribution.
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
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To: "team 3si"
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Subject: Team3S: suspension
upgrade
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:10:16 -0700
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A post script to my last message.
--- using Barry Kings 550 front spring
rate as a standard he would have a
63/37 split using 550/320 #/in springs
while a true 60/40 would use 550/370
#/in springs. My values calculated from
the manual would result in a 550/470
rate to provide a 54/46 split. BTW
the stock rates [from the
book] are 220/157 for a 58/42 split. The range for
the rears is 320 to 470
depending on the actual front to rear bias.It may be
as Mr...King states that
the rear rate is not that significant however, if
anyone has any additional
input I would appreciate response.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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From: "Barry E. King"
<beking@home.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: suspension
upgrade
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:17:56 -0700
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For anyone concerned with weight biasing, keep in mind
also that the height
adjustment feature of the GC system will allow you to
dictate a certain
amount of weight transfer from front to rear or corner to
corner for that
matter. Furthermore spring preload can be adjusted to
further tweak either
end's response.
Actually, now that I think of it,
375 lb rear springs were something Jay and
I discussed and we talked about
going as low as 275-300. I chose to keep
the rear a little stiffer
without getting too carried away.
For street use I would think a more
balanced setup would provide the most
comfortable feel -- it is more like
what one expects from a street vehicle.
I usually prefer the front end to be
more taught to since it tends to keep
the suspension geometry more in line
under heavy braking and in turns.
I currently run 1 degree of negative
camber up front -- the most I could
squeeze out of the stock adjusters such
as they are -- but will be
running -1.5 once the camber plates are
installed. Rear is whatever stock
happened to be. I will notch
the rear to get more adjustment if need be but
I am not concerned about it
since the rear geometry plays less of a role in
steering stability. The
rear can be off a fair bit and still feel great,
but if the front is off the
car can feel like a plow. Corner balancing and
front/rear weight
transfer is higher on my priorty list than rear
camber.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
>
> A post script to my last message. --- using
Barry Kings 550 front spring
> rate as a standard he would have a 63/37
split using 550/320 #/in springs
> while a true 60/40 would use 550/370
#/in springs. My values
> calculated from
> the manual would result
in a 550/470 rate to provide a 54/46 split. BTW
> the stock
rates [from the book] are 220/157 for a 58/42 split.
> The range
for
> the rears is 320 to 470 depending on the actual front to
rear
> bias.It may be
> as Mr...King states that the rear rate is
not that significant however, if
> anyone has any additional input I would
appreciate response.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Feb 6 02:52:07 1999
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Hey Scott,
Thanks for putting my thoughts about
these cars into words. You've
pretty well summed it up, darned near word for
word.
For me it was love at first sight when the 3000s first hit the
road,
and, finally after almost ten years of desperation, I got my dream
car this past December 12th.
A '95 3000GT Black 5 speed, with Mits
Chrome Wheels,
Michelin 245/45 ZR 17 tires with maybe 5k miles on 'em,
40K
on the odometer, Infinity Stereo with equalizer and a
six disc changer. It
was a lease turn in that was driven by
some hot little babe who left just a
hint of her perfume smell
in the car that comes out of the upholstery on
warm days
--- the car was, and is, immaculate. Man, this sure sounds
like every boy's dream doesn't it?
I do intend to keep the car
forever, and in a way I almost hate
taking it on the road for fear of all the
idiots out there who might
run into it, some because they're staring at the
car --- oh well,
we all have to take chances. I can truly say there
isn't another
vehicle on the road I would rather drive.
Oh yeah, I
worked my way up to it too, by driving a really nice
'93 Silver Eclipse (Poor
Man's 3000) for four years.
As long as I'm writing --- I'm way behind
most of you guys in
terms of your technical knowledge and expertise. The
most
challenging automotive experience in my resume' is putting
headers on
a '76 Jeep CJ5 about 17 years ago. Altho' I did
do my own clutch replacement
on the Jeep and a couple of
Volkswagen Beetles back in the early
70's.
My question is this --- do you guys mind a few
"cosmetic"
type questions from time to time, such as there is a
faint
amount of clouding on the inside of the glass
headlight
"fairings", up above the headlights. And, of course,
this
looks twice as bad on a black car. I don't want to screw
anything up
by popping them off for cleaning, I'm afraid
that might make the situation
worse --- any suggestions??
I have a few other similar questions, but
let's just go with
that one first.
John
<<Original
Message>>
In a message dated 2/5/99 4:25:01 PM Central Standard
Time, sjc0u812@juno.com
writes:
<<
I think you're missing my
point here. I saved my last cent to get this
car. I also borrowed
form Peter, robbed Paul, etc. It's truly my
favorite thing in life
right now, next to my kids. I do everything I can
for this car, as
really it's much more than a transportation issue to me.
But you knew
that. This is strictly from my wallet's stand point, and
the fact if it
does go down, I unfortunately don't have the kind of money
where I can afford
to replace it with anything else reasonable at this
time. I would
really prefer to never drive another kind of car, now that
I've owned one,
and drive it every day through sun and snow. Appreciate
it? I
guess I take issue with you and that statement, or I wouldn't be
here to
begin with. It's strictly a matter of I strung myself out here
quite a
bit here to capture one and maintain it, and odds are it looks
like that
expense may go up. I was simply trying to, as usual, ask
questions, get
opinions, and share and help in any way I can with my
other fellow Team 3S
members. I realize I don't have a ton of experience
working on these
cars, but I do love them, and try real hard to do what I
can with what I have
to work with. But sometimes, love can even go bad.
If I could work out
owning one of these cars forever, I surely would. I
guess I just
haven't hit the lotto yet. Hope that clears up my point.
Scott
>>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Feb 6 07:15:03 1999
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Subject: Team3S: Cam profiles: R/T vs. R/T
TT
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What is the difference in the cam profiles for an NA R/T,
and a TT?
Because there are no aftermarket cams available, would using TT
cams be
beneficial, or would the lift and duration be too much where the
valves
and piston would have a "coming together"? I remember a post
a while
back about the cams for a 91-91 VR-4 being slightly different, and
would
those work on a NT?
Matt
3/Si #311
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Feb 6 07:25:39 1999
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Date:
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From: "R.G."
<robby@swissonline.ch>
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> My question is this --- do you guys mind a few
"cosmetic"
> type questions from time to time, such as there is
a faint
> amount of clouding on the inside of the glass headlight
>
"fairings", up above the headlights. And, of course, this
>
looks twice as bad on a black car. I don't want to screw
> anything up by
popping them off for cleaning, I'm afraid
> that might make the situation
worse --- any suggestions??
I guess that this is the same problem we
discovered on Jim Matthews 94'Stealth,
Jim ? Mabye it would be good to take a
close-up shot of this and maybe one has a
solution for the
problem.
> I have a few other similar questions, but let's just go
with
> that one first.
I guess that I'd be of more help with the
other questions (I have the
pop-ups)
Regards,
Roger
-----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
K&N FIPK,Magnecor
wires,Blitz DSBC/gauge/Dual Timer,Apexi AFC,SBOV,ATR DP/cat,
Borla,OZ
Mito2,Yoko AVS-Z1,braided brake lines,Bremsa brakes,Pagid RS-R pads
Visit
my homepage under:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Feb 6 07:25:45 1999
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Subject: Re:
Team3S: RIP Mitsubishi 3000 GT
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Hey Darc,
>From moderator to moderator, I think
it's better to talk privately about this
"whining" story and not to
the entire list. What happend, happend and this is
bad, but that's life and
we have to live with it. I already sent this
information to the guy and he
aplogized to me for his answer upon your reply to
the list !
Enjoy the
weekend,
Roger
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Feb 6 08:33:34 1999
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From: "Barry E. King"
<beking@home.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Cam profiles: R/T
vs. R/T TT
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 09:33:41 -0700
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They look to be the same cams believe it or not. The
difference according
to the service manual specifications is that the turbo
exhaust cam opens 2
degrees later and closes 2 degrees later. This is
probably done simply by
adjusting the exhaust cam sprockets. It would
be easy to check -- call up a
Mistu or Dodge dealer and ask for part numbers
for each and see what shakes
out. '91 and '92 had a miniscule amount of
increased lift at <less than
0.6mm which is about 20 thousandths of an
inch. This really won't do a lot
especially on stock heads. That
amount is almost used up by the service
limit for 93+ cams.
When
enquiring about cams, it may be useful to ask about cams for the 6G72
engine
or a "Dodge DOHC V6" rather than a Stealth or 3000GT. Dodge
used
variations of the V6 in SOHC and possibly DOHC configurations in other
cars.
I found that some American cam manufacturers don't even know what a
3000GT
is and as soon as you say Stealth they say "no".
Case
in point: I called ARP asking about rod bolts for my VR4 rebuild.
They
said they didn't make anything for a VR4. I asked about a Stealth.
They
said "let me check". They came back and said no. Yet, they
did make
parts for the 4G Mistu/Dodge engines and after pushing hard DID have
the
parts as 6G7x. So, now I have ARP hardware in the bottom end of the
engine
even though they "don't make hardware for that
engine".
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
>
> What is the difference in the cam profiles for an
NA R/T, and a TT?
> Because there are no aftermarket cams available, would
using TT cams be
> beneficial, or would the lift and duration be too much
where the valves
> and piston would have a "coming together"? I
remember a post a while
> back about the cams for a 91-91 VR-4 being
slightly different, and would
> those work on a NT?
>
>
Matt
> 3/Si #311
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
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Subject: Re: Team3S: suspension
upgrade
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 08:45:43 -0700
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origional message ---
>For
anyone concerned with weight biasing, keep in mind also that the
height
>adjustment feature of the GC system will allow you to dictate a
certain
>amount of weight transfer from front to rear or corner to corner
for that
>matter. Furthermore spring preload can be adjusted to
further tweak either
>end's response.
>
how would spring
preloading be accomplished, that implies some kind of
compression device
[
e.g.. NASCAR weight jacking/wedge adjustment
Jim Berry
----- temporally bone stock "arrest me red" 93
stealth]
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Feb 6 09:03:47 1999
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From: "Barry E. King"
<beking@home.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: suspension
upgrade
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:03:54 -0700
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Adjustable collars. These are most readily seen on
motorcycle shocks but
are also used on many adjustable car
shocks.
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
origional message ---
>
> >For anyone concerned with weight
biasing, keep in mind also that
> the height
> >adjustment
feature of the GC system will allow you to dictate a certain
> >amount
of weight transfer from front to rear or corner to corner for that
>
>matter. Furthermore spring preload can be adjusted to further
>
tweak either
> >end's response.
> >
>
>
>
how would spring preloading be accomplished, that implies some kind of
>
compression device
> [ e.g.. NASCAR weight jacking/wedge
adjustment
>
>
> Jim Berry ----- temporally
bone stock "arrest me red" 93 stealth]
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Feb 6 10:00:39 1999
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From: "R.G."
<robby@swissonline.ch>
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Subject: Re:
Team3S: RIP Mitsubishi 3000 GT
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My apologies to the list ! My moderator message was meant
to be privately and it
seems that there was too much snow on the send
button.
Darc, I'm very sorry for my mistake,
Roger
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
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Message-ID: <36BC9886.1992CE61@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Date:
Sat, 06 Feb 1999 20:31:18 +0100
From: Matthews
<matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
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To:
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Headlight
cleaning
References: <fc7b6f80.36bc1ec6@aol.com>
<36BC6BDD.7B076DDE@swissonline.ch>
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"R.G." wrote:
>
> > My question
is this --- do you guys mind a few "cosmetic"
> > type
questions from time to time, such as there is a faint
> > amount of
clouding on the inside of the glass headlight
> > "fairings",
up above the headlights. And, of course, this
> > looks twice as bad on
a black car. I don't want to screw
> > anything up by popping them off
for cleaning, I'm afraid
> > that might make the situation worse ---
any suggestions??
>
> I guess that this is the same problem we
discovered on Jim Matthews 94'Stealth,
> Jim ? Mabye it would be good to
take a close-up shot of this and maybe one has a
> solution for the
problem.
This does sound similar. On my black '94, under each clear
headlight
cover, there is an oval-shaped residue visible that looks like it
might
be adhesive or something. Not sure what it is and I don't know
how to
get at it. This problem is not visible on Mike Chapleski's black
'95,
as his covers are actually black underneath with cutouts for the
two
bulbs on each side. Perhaps this was a known problem with the
first
year of the 2nd gen cars ('94!) and Mike's '95 has the better
solution.
-Jim
--
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden,
Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps
ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
*** 3000GT-Stealth
International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94
Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension,
Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72%
BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark
plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix brake pads, custom braided
brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech
Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE
HP, 354 lb-ft torque
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Feb 6 11:34:20 1999
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From: "Russell
A. Coxe" <rcoxe@erols.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Cam profiles: R/T
vs. R/T TT
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:37:55 -0500
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>What is the difference in the cam
profiles for an NA R/T, and a TT?
The intake cam is the same for both the
NA and Turbo motors:
opens BTDC 16 degs, closes ABDC 55 degs
This cam is
designated by a "J" identification mark on the cam.
The exhaust
cam on the NA motor is:
opens BBDC 48 degs, closes ATDC 15 degs
This cam
is designated with a "K" identification mark on the
cam.
The exhaust cam on the turbo motor is:
opens BBDC 50 degs, closes
ATDC 17 degs
This cam is designated with an "N" identification mark
on the cam.
- Russ Coxe
1995 3000GT
1995 Eclipse
GSX-AT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Feb 6 11:50:06 1999
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Subject: Re: Team3S: RIP Mitsubishi 3000
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No worries bro...I'm bullet proof. Like my
car, I need a tune up every now and then
anyway
:-)
Best
Darc
R.G. wrote:
> My apologies to the
list ! My moderator message was meant to be privately and it
> seems that
there was too much snow on the send button.
>
> Darc, I'm very sorry
for my mistake,
> Roger
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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In a message dated 2/6/99 1:29:26 PM Central Standard
Time,
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de writes:
<< Perhaps this was
a known problem with the first
year of the 2nd gen cars ('94!) and Mike's '95
has the better solution.
-Jim
-- >>
Yeah ---
but mine's a '95 and it has this problem too!!
And I can't find a way to
get under there either -- if I could,
the glass could get cleaned off and
either painted or some
sort of film attached to give it a uniform look
--
Oh well, we'll have to see what anyone else might come up
with
---
John
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Feb 6 12:30:32 1999
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
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'Sorry for starting this thread again, but I was out
of town last week, then
we got
a new computer, so I lost a lot of email in
the process.
I assume these are the H4 replacements (blue arc bulbs and
not the blue
spectrum "fake" ones) that had been discussed earlier
-- after visiting the
lighting website (can't remember the name right now,
Stern or something,
old computer in shop so can't retrieve old address) that
explained the
reduced lighting of the blue spectrum, coated bulbs,
these would be the
Beemer/Mercedes type arc bulbs -- right?
Have
looked at the Hella site -- lost that address too -- but, is this where
one
can aquire these bulbs??
TIA
John
In a message dated
1/29/99 8:06:47 AM Central Standard Time, wala@hypertech-
inc.com
writes:
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Alright, it looks
like they may fit. Like i said, They made a BIG
difference on my Starions. I
would highly recomend these over the HID
imitations.
At 07:49 PM
1/28/99 -0500, you wrote:
>
>For Everyone who wants to update your
headlamps
>Dear Mr. Stump
>
>To the best of our knowledge
the 200mm H4 headlamps should fit into your
>Dodge Stealth/Mitsu 3000
(91-93).
>>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Feb 6 12:49:28 1999
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How are you guys adjusting your adjustable collars on the
GC shocks? Are
you using a corner weight balance to even the car back out on
all four
sides? I had heard that this is the only true way to get a
fully
balanced car when you utilize adjustbale height suspensions, unless
they
have indent markings of preset levels like the Koni struts which
have
ring landings to control the perch for struts.
Are you guys also
still using the strut cover boots with your ground
control setup? This is the
boot which goes over the strut so you avoid
getting some dirt in the rod or
piston piece.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Feb 6 13:39:13 1999
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Cam profiles: R/T vs. R/T
TT
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Russell A. Coxe wrote:
> >What difference in cam
NA R/T and TT?
> intake cam same for NA/Turbo:
> opens BTDC 16 degs,
closes ABDC 55 degs
> designated "J" mark on cam.
>
exhaust cam NA:
> opens BBDC 48 degs, closes ATDC 15 degs
>
designated "K" mark on cam.
>
> exhaust cam
turbo:
> opens BBDC 50 degs, closes ATDC 17 degs
> designated
"N" mark on cam.
This means the exhaust cam on turbo motors has
more open duration, by 4
degrees.
It opens 2 degrees SOONER, _AND_ closes
2 degrees LATER than the NA cam.
This is a mildly different lobe, not just a
cam timing change.
Makes sense, as turbo has disproportionately more exhaust
exiting.
Jack Tertadian
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Message-ID: <36BCB696.9DB97199@adelphia.net>
Date: Sat, 06 Feb
1999 16:39:35 -0500
From: RPM Motorsports
<rpmmotorsport@adelphia.net>
Organization: RPM Motorsport
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To: Team3S
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: New Parts
Again!
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Well, I've finally received the Kaze Catalog from Japan
for everyone who
has been asking about bodykit parts and the strut bar for
the car over
there. Now I can fully distinquish between the years and
different parts
available. It would seem that they produce Clear Corner
lens (Don't get
too excited Brad!) and tailight covers also. Again,
they do offer a
strut bar for the front of the vehicle but it does NOT fit
with the
stock hood. They have created a new raised hood for the vehicle.
They
also offer the little vent for the popup lights that a few of you
guys
were asking me about. I'll try to scan the catalog and post on one of
my
websites for everyone who is interested.
And for all the Bozz
customers, YES I'm still working on trying to get
Cams and Sprockets for our
car. And I am working on some information
regarding the TD05-16G turbo kit
and the T67 Turbo kit for the car.
Check out the T67 kit at
www.bozz.co.jp it's on their Tokyo Auto Salon
99 pictures.
I think
they have Alcon brakes available for our cars in Japan also.
Along with a
larger Aluminium Radiator now.
I'm warning customers now, Japanese parts
are not cheap and I have been
informed about the quality of the Kaze
products. Just to warn everyone
ahead of time.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Feb 6 13:49:31 1999
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From: "Steven A. File" <sfile@usa.net>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Headlamps
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:31:12 -0600
Message-ID:
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John,
Following please find my original message
about the Stern lite
site:
======================================================================
Try
this web site to learn more than you probably want to know about
car
lights:
http://lighting.mbz.org/
This guy claims to be a car
lights guru. Lot's of interesting stuff. Worth
noting is his claim that the
OEM wiring on most cars is of too small a gauge
and does not deliver full
voltage. It would be interesting to know if this
applies to our
cars!
Steve File
mailto:sfile@usa.net
Weekday Toy: '98
Mitsubishi 3000 GT, SOHC,
Solano Black Pearl: "The
Beep-Beep"
Weekend Toy: '97 Mitsubishi 3000 GT, VR-4, AWD, AWS,
TT,
Solano Black Pearl: "The Turbo
Beep-Beep"
"Some days you’re the
dog . . .
. . . some days you’re the hydrant."
-----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On
Behalf Of
PFloyd91@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 1999 2:30
PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Headlamps
'Sorry for starting this thread again, but I was out of
town last week, then
we got
a new computer, so I lost a lot of email in
the process.
I assume these are the H4 replacements (blue arc bulbs and
not the blue
spectrum "fake" ones) that had been discussed earlier
-- after visiting the
lighting website (can't remember the name right now,
Stern or something,
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt
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Date: Sat, 06 Feb
1999 22:54:34
From: Mark Creekmore <mcreekmore@usa.net>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: [RE: Team3S: suspension
upgrade]
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Thanks for all of the great info. Do you know of any
auto shops that would be able to put our cars on a set of wheel scales to get a
more precise adjustment? Can you give us some more info on the camber
plates?
Thanks,
Mark
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
wrote:
> Adjustable collars. These are most readily seen on
motorcycle shocks but
> are also used on many adjustable car
shocks.
>
>
> Barry
>
> > -----Original
Message-----
> >
> > origional message ---
>
>
> > >For anyone concerned with weight biasing, keep in mind
also that
> > the height
> > >adjustment feature of the GC
system will allow you to dictate a certain
> > >amount of weight
transfer from front to rear or corner to corner for that
> >
>matter. Furthermore spring preload can be adjusted to further
>
> tweak either
> > >end's response.
> > >
>
>
> >
> > how would spring preloading be accomplished, that
implies some kind of
> > compression device
> > [ e.g.. NASCAR
weight jacking/wedge adjustment
> >
> >
> > Jim
Berry ----- temporally bone stock "arrest me red" 93
stealth]
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
>
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
____________________________________________________________________
Get
free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Feb 6 16:45:44 1999
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From: "Barry E. King"
<beking@home.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Cam profiles: R/T
vs. R/T TT
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 17:45:41 -0700
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Oops. Right you are Dr. Jack. I blame it on
dyslexia. Thanks for
the
correction.
Regards,
Barry
> > exhaust cam
NA:
> > opens BBDC 48 degs, closes ATDC 15 degs
> > designated
"K" mark on cam.
> >
> > exhaust cam turbo:
>
> opens BBDC 50 degs, closes ATDC 17 degs
> > designated
"N" mark on cam.
>
> This means the exhaust cam on turbo
motors has more open duration, by 4
> degrees.
> It opens 2 degrees
SOONER, _AND_ closes 2 degrees LATER than the NA cam.
> This is a mildly
different lobe, not just a cam timing change.
> Makes sense, as turbo has
disproportionately more exhaust exiting.
> Jack Tertadian
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
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From: "Barry E. King"
<beking@home.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: suspension
upgrade
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 17:54:41 -0700
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I haven't done this yet but will be using corner
scales. They are four pads
with electronic scales. It is the
"right" way to do it but it can be done
using shock markings or a
tape measure to get you into the ballpark.
Even the markings on struts
will only get you in the ballpark. The other
alternative is measuring
from a fixed point to the adjuster, which is
roughly equivalent to using
markings on shocks.
Corner scales are unfortunately kind of pricey for
most indivduals but for a
shop might be feasible if they are doing a lot of
suspension work. I will
be using a set at a local shop. I
considered building some since they can
be made from a strain gauge and some
electronics but even that would be a
luxury.
Typically you'll want to
balance with a half tank of fuel and a driver or
equivalent weight (180 lbs
seems to be the standard) taken into account.
Idon't have the boots on
the front struts right now but will replace them
when the GC springs go
in.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
>
> How are you guys adjusting your adjustable collars
on the GC shocks? Are
> you using a corner weight balance to even the car
back out on all four
> sides? I had heard that this is the only true way
to get a fully
> balanced car when you utilize adjustbale height
suspensions, unless they
> have indent markings of preset levels like the
Koni struts which have
> ring landings to control the perch for
struts.
> Are you guys also still using the strut cover boots with your
ground
> control setup? This is the boot which goes over the strut so you
avoid
> getting some dirt in the rod or piston piece.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Feb 6 17:04:21 1999
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From: "Barry E. King"
<beking@home.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: [RE: Team3S: suspension
upgrade]
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 18:04:18 -0700
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You'll just have to check around your local area to find a
shop with scales.
Target Porsche and BMW performance shops that have
road race or auto-x
customers since they tend to be more serious about car
prep. Any decent
shop with a road race bent will have access to corner
scales. Try asking
independant alignment shops as well. You could
even look for NASCAR and
road race specialty shops who normally don't even
deal with the public.
Sometimes these guys (who are usually VERY busy and
used to dealing with
$100K repairs) will give an enthusiast a break and take
you in.
The camber plates I am getting are a universal fit. They
are designed with
GC components in mind but will work with even stock
struts. Basically it
allows the strut tower to be located along two
axis to allow for full camber
and caster adjustment. Unlike similar
offerings from TEIN and Cusco, the GC
kits come with a spherical bearing
which will greatly reduce wear on the
upper pillow mount.
You'll
notice more feedback from the suspension and it will liekly be a
little
noisier but also noticably better, more precise control since there
isn't
nearly as much slop as found in what comes from the factory. This
isn't
limited to the VR4 as almost all consumer vehicles are built to
compromise
ride for performance.
Pricing on the GC camber plates is
competitive. Cheaper than Cusco and
(now) cheaper than TEIN and
probably better than either. The downside is
that you have to drill new
holes to mount the GC kit since it uses a 4 hole
mounting plate. The
VR4 uses 3.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
>
> Thanks for all of the great info. Do you know
of any auto shops
> that would be able to put our cars on a set of wheel
scales to
> get a more precise adjustment? Can you give us some more
info on
> the camber plates?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
Mark
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Feb 6 20:20:33 1999
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From:
"james berry" <fastmax@home.com>
To: "team 3si"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: team 3S: suspension
upgrade
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:10:16 -0700
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This is a multi-part message in MIME
format.
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Assuming you have all the correct aftermarket hardware
to make the =
proper adjustments is the goal to get as=20
close as
possible to equal weight on each corner. I also assume it would =
be done
with driver and some amount=20
of fuel.
P.S. I know there are several
suspension setup books out there ---- =
could someone recommene
one.
thanks =
in advance --- Jim
berry
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE520C.B6A67500
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3
HTML//EN">
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<HEAD>
<META
content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1
=
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML
4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000
size=3D2>Assuming you have all the correct =
aftermarket=20
hardware to
make the proper adjustments is the goal to get as
=
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000
size=3D2>close as possible to equal weight on =
each=20
corner. I also
assume it would be done with driver and some amount
=
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000
size=3D2>of fuel.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#000000 size=3D2>P.S. I know there are several =
suspension
setup=20
books out there ---- could someone recommene
one.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#000000
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2> &nbs=
p;  =
; =
&=
nbsp; &n=
bsp; =20
thanks
in advance --- Jim
berry</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE520C.B6A67500--
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Feb 6 20:56:08 1999
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From:
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To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>, <stealth@starnet.net>
Subject:
Team3S: 1,2,3,4 syncros for sale.
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:59:58
-0600
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Okay, Thanks for all the replies for my first offering of
syncros.
We have now sold the Stealth, so I do have a second set of
syncros for sale.
This is 1,2,3,4 syncros. Does not include reverse or
5th/6th gear.
Since I got over 10 "I want them" replies, I want
to sell the set for
330.00. (sorry to mark them up, but it is a supply &
demand thing)
If this is too high, I will take the highest offer for the
set. I want to
auction these. I will hold the set until the 20th (Read:
bidding is open
until the 20th of February)
Trades will also be
considered. I am looking to upgrade my computer to the
newer PII
platform.
> Brad
>
> Check out my home
page: http://lonestar.texas.net/~bbedell
> E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun
Feb 7 00:23:04 1999
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Message-ID: <36BD4D59.4032D579@adelphia.net>
Date: Sun,
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From: RPM Motorsports
<rpmmotorsport@adelphia.net>
Organization: RPM Motorsport
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I have pictures of all the Kaze Products available on the
following
website www.home.adelphia.net/~rpmmotor
I'd be happy to
answer any questions anyone has.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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From:
Kevin Clark <Kevin.Clark@hnz.co.nz>
To:
"'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: New
Products
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:32:34 +0100
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> I have pictures of all the Kaze Products available on
the following
> website
http://home.adelphia.net/~rpmmotor/html/kaze.html
Whow, some nice
stuff there. However I can see that you were not
kidding when you
mentioned that it ain't cheap...
My Christmas list for my '91 would
definitely include the side
skirts and the projection lights. Actually
I have a Birthday
coming up in a couple of weeks... anyone got an extra two
grand
for a well loved car...
Still, on the bright side, having the
car look stock from the
outside has meant no questions from the warrantee
company :)
Cheers,
Kevin Clark
'91 GTO-VR4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun
Feb 7 07:31:20 1999
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Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 09:06:59
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From: Bill Davis <b-davis@primary.net>
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Subject: Team3S: POTHOLES update
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I want to thank everyone for their input
on the problem.
I have not responded because I have been very sick
for
like the last ten days. So far one ruptured ear drum, and
right now it
feels like someone is driving a nail into my
cheek bone. I never knew sinus
problems could be this bad.
Nuff o that.
Jeff C.
The situation
you mentioned came about for two reasons.
First and foremost, media coverage.
Secondly that situation
had been reported by many drivers, and effectively
ignored
by the highway dept, thus NEGLECT. I drove by my spot
on I-40 the
following monday, and they were out there fixing
it, so no
NEGLECT.
John H.
You mention that the holes are coming back, I'm not
going to
find out. Here is the phone number I called for St Louis Co.
that
told me if it were a road they maintain that they would
pay for the
damage.
Highways & Traffic
(problem potholes/damaged
pavement)........854-6538
(Emergency)................................................997-9999
The
lady I talked to did not hesitate when she told me this,
and I called because
someone else told me St. Louis Co.
would pay for it.
Someone also
mentioned trying to negotiate with my insurance
company for a comp claim, but
noooo, I hit the potholes.
Given my other two choices, the wall to my left,
or the cars
to my right, yes I hit the potholes.
There is a positive
side to the whole thing though. They have
had my car for almost two weeks now
waiting for the wheels
to come in from Cal. My car never sits in one spot for
more
than a couple of days. When they moved it they noticed some
engine
coolant on the ground, the looked for the leak, and found
the water pump
leaking a tiny bit from the seep hole. The service
manager called me friday,
and told me that they were going to
have toreplace the water pump,
"WARRANTY", would I like
them to replace the timing belt while they
are in there. My car
has just under 58K on it, and I'm going to get the
timing belt,
tensioner, and water pump replaced for the cost of the
tensioner,
and belt. This was the only part of the 60K service I didnt
feel
confident in doing myself, so chalk one up for the victim.
This
whole ordeal has really given me an attitude about paying
my personal
property taxes, and such. Oh well.
By the way Lou Fusz Mitsubishi in St.
Louis is where my car
is being worked on, and the parts guy GregYates, does
discount
my parts, I'm not sure how it compares to Tallahassee Mitsu,
but
the last time I looked, called it a wash to be able to drive two
miles
to get them, versus ordering, and waiting.
Bill Davis (broke)95
VR-4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun
Feb 7 08:03:53 1999
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To:
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Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:59:02
-0600
Subject: Team3S: Rolex 24
Message-ID:
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Hello to all:
Quick off subject question...caught
the end of the Rolex 24 to find a
Mistubishi listed in the GT3 class, number
09. Finished like 39 over
all, like 23 in it's class. Anyone
klnow, is this a VR4? Do we know
these folks?
Just
curious.
Thanks, and
regards,
Scott
___________________________________________________________________
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun
Feb 7 08:03:57 1999
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To:
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Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 10:04:02
-0600
Subject: Team3S: Tire Swapping
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Hello to all:
Does anyone know of a company or
anyone personally that might interested
in swapping some tires? We have
a set of BF Goodrich T/A radials,
P225/60R16's, just over 10K mikes,
that I hate and would like to find a
pair of a different brand.
If
interested, or can help, please e-mail me privately
at:
sjc0u812@juno.com
Thank you, and
regards,
Scott
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun
Feb 7 08:35:13 1999
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$7080_for entire kit and light upgrade
8) ouch but well worth it.
Xannieria
3SI #130
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun
Feb 7 10:05:30 1999
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Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 13:07:41
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From: Don Kessler <dgkessler@ameritech.net>
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Subject: Team3S: Engine
Oil
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I would like to use synthetic oil in my
1993 R/T TT, but I am confused
on which brand to use. I drive the car
only in the nicer weather here
in Michigan (April through November) so I was
thinking of using a 10W40
weight. Any and all suggestions would be
appreciated.
Thanks,
Don
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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The Mobil One 10W-30 will work fine for your weather
conditions.
Arty 91 VR-4
In a message dated 2/7/99 1:07:28 PM Eastern
Standard Time,
dgkessler@ameritech.net writes:
<< Subj: Team3S:
Engine Oil
Date: 2/7/99 1:07:28 PM Eastern Standard Time
From:
dgkessler@ameritech.net (Don Kessler)
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stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
(stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com)
I would like to use synthetic oil in my
1993 R/T TT, but I am confused
on which brand to use. I drive the car
only in the nicer weather here
in Michigan (April through November) so I was
thinking of using a 10W40
weight. Any and all suggestions would be
appreciated.
Thanks,
>>
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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From: "Nathan Crisman"
<spyder_talon@hotmail.com>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Re: Team3S Digest V1
#94
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 14:12:43 PST
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Hey guys...
Im looking for a set of
turbo's for a Stealth...mainly a set off of
someones car that
upgraded. I just had a rebuilt motor installed, but
my turbo's are
missing quite a few compressor blades...hmmm tha't why
with no boost
controler on it at all (open hoses!), it only made 4psi.
IF anyone can
help me out, Id really appreciate it.
Plus..can anyone give me an idea of
what's got to come off to replace
both turbo's? IV done it on an awd
Talon, but the back one on my
stealth looks wedged in pretty
bad.
Nathan Crisman
91 AWD Talon (13.4@104)
92 Stealth (not been
good to me, spun the rod bearing on #1, destroyed
the crank. While
having the motor replaced, I confirm the turbo's a
wiped
out.)
______________________________________________________
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From
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Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 17:43:22
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From: Don Kessler <dgkessler@ameritech.net>
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Subject: Team3S: Engine Oil
Filter
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Sorry Gang,
I forgot to ask this with my question
on engine oil. I religiously
change the oil and filter on my daily drivers
at 2000 miles. I have read
on one of the lists that you should change your
filter only at every
other oil change. Something about it filters better when
slightly
dirty. I'm sorry but that doesn't seem logical to me.
Why put fresh
oil in the car with a dirty filter that has used oil in it. How
can it
filter better? Help me please, I'm
bewildered.
Thanks,
Don
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
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From
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Date: Sun, 07
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
From: Shawn
Dewey <sdewey@dmv.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Rolex 24
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>Quick off subject question...caught the end of the
Rolex 24 to find a
>Mistubishi listed in the GT3 class, number 09.
Finished like 39 over
>all, like 23 in it's class. Anyone klnow, is
this a VR4? Do we know
>these folks?
----------------
No this
is not a VR-4 but a 2G eclipse with a 1G motor in it. It is one of
Archer's
old cars and was run in the 24 hour last year and finished the
race then too.
The car is sponsored by Daytona Mitsubishi. Yes I am
familiar with them. The
road racing DSM family is quite small :)
OA position
start
position
car number
class
class position
car
purse
laps
complete and reason out (if
any).
Drivers/hometowns
39
70
09
GT3
16
Daytona
Mitsubishi/Mitsubishi Eclipse
$1,000
455
Craig Conway/Daytona
Beach/Fla.
Todd Flis/Daytona Beach/Fla.
Eric Van
Cleef/Huntsville/Ala.
-shawn dewey
'91 Stealth R/T
nonturbo 15.426 @ 90.68 (in the happy hands of a new owner!)
'93 3000GT VR4
12.98 @ 107 mph
'91 Talon TSI AWD 13.6 @ 98.8 (the commuter car, yeah right!
:)
'95 Talon ESi SCCA Race Car (SSC
class)
http://home.dmv.com/~sdewey
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Engine Oil
Filter
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Don, on a brand new oil filter it needs to clog up a bit
to get the required
resistance needed to filter out the really small
particles. Just like the K&N
air filter needs to get a bit dirty to work
better.
Arty 91 VR-4
In a message dated 2/7/99 5:41:36 PM Eastern
Standard Time,
dgkessler@ameritech.net writes:
<< Subj: Team3S:
Engine Oil Filter
Date: 2/7/99 5:41:36 PM Eastern Standard Time
From:
dgkessler@ameritech.net (Don Kessler)
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
(stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com)
Sorry Gang,
I forgot to ask this
with my question on engine oil. I religiously
change the oil and filter on
my daily drivers at 2000 miles. I have read
on one of the lists that you
should change your filter only at every
other oil change. Something about it
filters better when slightly
dirty. I'm sorry but that doesn't seem
logical to me. Why put fresh
oil in the car with a dirty filter that
has used oil in it. How can it
filter better? Help me please, I'm
bewildered.
Thanks, >>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Engine Oil
Filter
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Hi Don;
Advise you received on the oil (Mobil 1
10-30) was right on. It's a matter of conjecture
about changing every other
oil change...personally I do not for the reasons you have
elucidated.
Call me Mr. Clean...clean oil, clean filter. I think you'd get about
90%
favor a filter change every change and 10% favor it every other if you
conducted a
survey. You'd get the reasons you've already stated, so it's up
to you now to decide.
Best
Darc
Don Kessler
wrote:
> Sorry Gang,
>
> I forgot to ask this with my
question on engine oil. I religiously
> change the oil and filter on my
daily drivers at 2000 miles. I have read
> on one of the lists that you
should change your filter only at every
> other oil change. Something
about it filters better when slightly
> dirty. I'm sorry but that
doesn't seem logical to me. Why put fresh
> oil in the car with a
dirty filter that has used oil in it. How can it
> filter better?
Help me please, I'm bewildered.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
Don
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date: Sun, 07
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
From: Shawn
Dewey <sdewey@dmv.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: DSM technical info
CD
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You can thank me for some contribution of the 3K/Stealth
manuals, as I
donated my 94 stealth and 93 mitsu manuals to Vineet in order
to get this
CD put together as complete as possible. The CD's should be
excellent
quality since the DSM CD manuals are first rate and completely
searchable.
>I was fascinated by a post last week (about a CD
version of the 3S manuals,
>with technical bulletins), so I contacted the
source. Here's some of his
>response. I'm going to order one of the CDs.
I'll let you all know what it
>looks like after I've had a chance to look
at it.
>1991 BODY repair manual (shows ALL structural
parts/seals/paint/etc)
>1994 Dodge Stealth manual (covers ALL
DS's)
>1991 3000gt manual (covers 91-92 3k/DS cars)
>1992-1996+
3000gt manual (covers, well you know :)
>DSM technical manual (covers the
T/E/L line, but applies to the 3/s)
-shawn dewey
'91 Stealth R/T
nonturbo 15.426 @ 90.68 (in the happy hands of a new owner!)
'93 3000GT VR4
12.98 @ 107 mph
'91 Talon TSI AWD 13.6 @ 98.8 (the commuter car, yeah right!
:)
'95 Talon ESi SCCA Race Car (SSC
class)
http://home.dmv.com/~sdewey
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Feb 7 16:16:17 1999
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Date: Sun, 07
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
From: Shawn
Dewey <sdewey@dmv.com>
Subject: Team3S: Dodge Stealth model on
ebay
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Dodge Stealth Indy 500 Official Car.
Can be built stock
or with the Indy decals.
AMT #6806 issued 1991,unbuilt factory
sealed.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=63546859
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun
Feb 7 19:38:45 1999
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Date: Sun, 07
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From: Ron Thompson
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Subject: Re: Team3S: 5-speed problems, part II
(advice requested)
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Like I said Eric, i had the identical problems with my
Eclipse,
including the grinding in second up or down. This is what always
told
me when the trany fluid was done. I had to change it 2-3 times a
year.
I drove the car about 9 -12 a year.
As for the dealer putting
in the right stuff, I wouldn't bet on it,
that barrel full of universal gear
oil is one size fits all. It's a
cheap and easy experiment changing the trany
oil. If that solves the
problem, you;ll be happy. If it doesn't, then attack
the dealer to fix
or replace the trany. Don't give them the car till the
trany is in
their shop, then you should be out of the car only a few
days.
Ron
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Feb 8 00:20:43 1999
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Message-ID: <36BFEE4F.E984023@u.washington.edu>
Date: Tue, 09
Feb 1999 00:14:07 -0800
From: "Errin D. Humphrey"
<errin@u.washington.edu>
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Subject: Re:
Team3S: Re: Rolex 24
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Shawn Dewey wrote:
> >Quick off subject
question...caught the end of the Rolex 24 to find a
> >Mistubishi
listed in the GT3 class, number 09. Finished like 39 over
> >all,
like 23 in it's class. Anyone klnow, is this a VR4? Do we
know
> >these folks?
> ----------------
> No this is not a
VR-4 but a 2G eclipse with a 1G motor in it. It is one of
> Archer's old
cars and was run in the 24 hour last year and finished the
> race then
too. The car is sponsored by Daytona Mitsubishi. Yes I am
> familiar with
them. The road racing DSM family is quite small :)
Speaking of the Rolex
24, the guy who came in first for GT3 class
lives just a few miles away from
me, next door neighbor of a friend
of mine. His name is Darryl Havens,
his 911 RSR not only smoked
the competition in GT3 but actually beat the
winner of the GT2 class!
(it was a 911T). He was racing for a pledge
drive do donate to the
Seattle Children's Hospital and for this he was able
to raise $254,000.
Quite a guy. I'll probably pay him a visit this
week. Maybe he has a
couple spare turbos sitting around he could donate
for my car. :-)
Check out:
http://www.teamseattle.com/team_seattle.htm
I was really happy to see
that the Mitsubishi finished the race. I was
hoping to get some
videorecorded footage of it, but all the cameras
would ever show was that
ugly Ford (Riley & Scott) hunk of junk. :)
--Errin
Humphrey
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Feb 8 01:38:27 1999
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Message-ID: <36BEB1E8.DD8@ozemail.com.au>
Date: Mon, 08 Feb
1999 20:44:08 +1100
From: Andrew Clark
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Subject:
Team3S: Tires for VR4
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I'm sorry to bore everybody with this subject, & I
know its been cover
heaps of times, but I'm running into problems getting
tyres for my VR4.
I've been quoted prices in the vicinity of $345US per tyre
for the
original 225/50 Yoko's that are on the car at the moment & was
offered a
cheaper alternative by a tyre bloke today who said I could use
235/45
Bridgestones. I asked if this different tyre size would effect my
speedo
to which he said "not much"(??!!).
Anyway it is proving
difficult to get a 225/50 17 inch tyre for the car
other than the
Yoko.
Any suggestions on a 225/50 alternative to the Yoko's or comments
on
other sizes etc. would be greatly
appreciated.
Thanks
Andrew
Australia
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
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From
owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Feb 8 02:23:47 1999
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From:
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To:
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Subject: RE: Team3S: Tires for VR4
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:19:55 +0100
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stealth-3000gt
Maybe it's different in Australia but in the rest of the
world (as I know it)the stock size for a VR-4 is 245/45-17. (245/40-18 for the
newer cars.)
So the 235/45 will be closer to stock size but the 225/50
will be closer to the stock 2052mm circumference.
The 235/45 have 2024mm
circumference and the 225/50 have 2067mm circumference.
If you want to
calculate these figures, go to this web page and download the "wheel
calculation program". http://www.kw.igs.net/~millebi/
BTW did you
guys notice that the Kaze side view mirrors is exactly the same that the Celica
had 90-93! I guess you can get them at a better price at Toyota. :)
Best regards
Mikael Akesson
http://www.bahnhof.se/~vr4
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew
Clark <chemist1@ozemail.com.au>
>I've been quoted prices in the
vicinity of $345US per tyre for the
>original 225/50 Yoko's that are on
the car at the moment & was offered a cheaper alternative by a tyre bloke
today who said I could use 235/45 Bridgestones. I asked if this different tyre
size would effect my speedo to which he said "not
much"(??!!).
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Feb 8 05:41:16 1999
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From: "Dan
Kiehl" <dkiehl@netmdc.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Engine
Oil
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 06:43:50 -0700
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I use mobil one
10w30..
CYa,
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: Don
Kessler <dgkessler@ameritech.net>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Sunday, February 07, 1999 11:17
AM
Subject: Team3S: Engine Oil
>I would like to use synthetic
oil in my 1993 R/T TT, but I am confused
>on which brand to use. I
drive the car only in the nicer weather here
>in Michigan (April through
November) so I was thinking of using a 10W40
>weight. Any and all
suggestions would be
appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Don
>For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Feb 8 05:52:09 1999
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From: "Dan
Kiehl" <dkiehl@netmdc.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: DSM technical
info CD
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 06:54:43 -0700
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how much for the cd?
who do I
contact?
CYa,
Dan
-----Original
Message-----
From: Shawn Dewey <sdewey@dmv.com>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date:
Sunday, February 07, 1999 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: DSM technical info
CD
>You can thank me for some contribution of the 3K/Stealth
manuals, as I
>donated my 94 stealth and 93 mitsu manuals to Vineet in
order to get this
>CD put together as complete as possible. The CD's
should be excellent
>quality since the DSM CD manuals are first rate and
completely searchable.
>
>
>
>>I was fascinated by a
post last week (about a CD version of the 3S
manuals,
>>with
technical bulletins), so I contacted the source. Here's some of
his
>>response. I'm going to order one of the CDs. I'll let you all
know what it
>>looks like after I've had a chance to look at
it.
>
>>1991 BODY repair manual (shows ALL structural
parts/seals/paint/etc)
>>1994 Dodge Stealth manual (covers ALL
DS's)
>>1991 3000gt manual (covers 91-92 3k/DS
cars)
>>1992-1996+ 3000gt manual (covers, well you know
:)
>>DSM technical manual (covers the T/E/L line, but applies to the
3/s)
>
>-shawn dewey
>
>'91 Stealth R/T nonturbo 15.426
@ 90.68 (in the happy hands of a new
owner!)
>'93 3000GT VR4 12.98 @
107 mph
>'91 Talon TSI AWD 13.6 @ 98.8 (the commuter car, yeah right!
:)
>'95 Talon ESi SCCA Race Car (SSC
class)
>http://home.dmv.com/~sdewey
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Feb 8 06:43:35 1999
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Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
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Subject: Team3S: FYI: DOHC Rocker Arm no.'s
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For anyone
who was interested in my inquiry as to the meaning of the
numbers stamped on
top of the DOHC engine's rocker arms - I finally contacted
a tech rep at
mitsubishi who told me they are nothing more than an indicator
from the
production line - there is no diference in any of the rockers - they
are all
identical.
SteveC
'91 3000GT SL
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Feb 8 07:21:43 1999
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Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 10:19:31
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From: "Todd Schmalzried"
<Q11981@email.mot.com>
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Subject: Team3S: and I
quote
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March 1999 Road & Track page 149 lower
left
"UNDER PRESSURE R & D:After-market performance product
leader. .snip.
Engine, 2WD and ONLY AWD chassis dyno in the U.S.A.! Complete
online
ordering. www.uprd.com (714)842-3338"
Looks like there
might actually be an AWD dyno in the country. I just
thought you guys might
be interested. I haven't called them yet, I'm on a
plane on the way home
right now.
--
Todd
Schmalzried
q11981@email.mot.com
-You "put your 2
cents in" but only get "a penny for your thoughts"
-Who gets
the change? Think about it. O-
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Feb 8 07:28:41 1999
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Content-Identifier: Boost Question
Hop-Count: 1
Date: Mon, 08 Feb
1999 09:05 -0600
From: Jeff A Williamson
<Jeff.A.Williamson@jci.com>
Subject: Team3S: Boost Question
To:
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stealth-3000gt
My '92 VR4 has 103,000 miles on it. I have the HKS SPF
filter, cat-back
exhaust, no cat, and Autometer boost gauge. Before I
intalled an HKS boost
controller, I saw maximum boost of about 6 psi and one
of the turbochagers
(stock) was brand new. According to specifications I've
seen, the stock boost
on that model was 9psi. Now, with the boost
controller, I can easily reach much
higher boost pressures, but with the
boost controller turned off, I still only
see about 6psi. I've also noticed
that in order to achive a boost pressure of
13.5 psi, I have to set my boost
controller at 1.10 kg/cm2 (about 15.5psi I
think).
What specifically
causes a reduction in stock boost pressure? Is it engine wear
(if so, which
components), turbo wear, vacuum leak, etc.?) If the cause of this
lost stock
boost pressure is repaired and stock boost pressure is restored,
will that
correct the calibration problems with my boost controller?
Just curious.
Thanks.
Jeff Williamson
Belleville, MI
'92 VR4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Feb 8 07:45:03 1999
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Team3S: Tires for VR4
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> Maybe it's different in Australia but in the rest of
the world (as I know it)
> the stock size for a VR-4 is 245/45-17.
(245/40-18 for the newer cars.)
Also the EU cars came stock with
225/50-17. I then had 245/45-17 SP8000 on the
OZ and now Yoko 255/40-17. The
speed offset is negligible :) My best experience
is with the 245/45-17 so
far.
-----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT
TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Feb 8 08:00:32 1999
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Subject: Re:
Team3S: Boost Question
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Jeff,
> I saw maximum boost of about 6 psi and
one of the turbochagers
> (stock) was brand new. According to
specifications I've seen, the stock boost
> on that model was
9psi.
This is not dependent on the turbos. My 93'3000GT max out 6psi when
I turn off
the Blitz controller. With the stock boost solenoid the boost was
somewhat
higher around 7 psi it mainly helps to get max boost
quicker.
> Now, with the boost controller, I can easily reach much
higher boost
> pressures
Sure, and you can easily kill your engine
over 1.00bars (14.7psi)!!
> but with the boost controller turned off,
I still only
> see about 6psi.
Of course it does as the controllers
solenoid will stay fully open and the
pressure goes directly to the
wastegates causing them to open. They start around
4.5psi or so.
>
I've also noticed that in order to achive a boost pressure of
> 13.5 psi,
I have to set my boost controller at 1.10 kg/cm2 (about 15.5psi I
>
think).
This depends on the boost controller, where it measures boost and
where it takes
pressure from to drive the wastegates. IMHO, there is a hose
not connected to
the proper location.
> What specifically causes a
reduction in stock boost pressure?
First, it looks normal for that year.
Then an existing stock solenoid valve can
cause a difference. Also the
preloaded spring in the wastegate actuators are
getting weaker over the years
but with a boost controller this can be controlled
and compensated. I dunno
your boost controller but it is maybe older than the
most we are
running.
Hope this
helps,
Roger
-----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
Visit my homepage
under:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/3000gt.html
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Feb 8 08:18:14 1999
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Subject: Re: Team3S: FYI: DOHC Rocker Arm
no.'s
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Steve;
Thanks for posting back on this..it could
save sorting or some head scratching down the
road...but, it has not helped
with your problem---have you solved it
yet??
Best
Darc
Lomcevak@aol.com
wrote:
> For anyone who was interested
in my inquiry as to the meaning of the
> numbers stamped on top of the
DOHC engine's rocker arms - I finally contacted
> a tech rep at mitsubishi
who told me they are nothing more than an indicator
> from the production
line - there is no diference in any of the rockers - they
> are all
identical.
>
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Feb 8 08:22:29 1999
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Tires for
VR4
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Mathematically the difference in size
between a 225/50 and 235/45 would result in a 2 percent difference in your
speedometer on the low side. In other words, you would indicate say 60
kph, but only be doing 59 kph. The inaccuracy of the speedo probable makes
more difference than that. Have you checked into buying tires from the
U.S. from places like Tire Rack or Discount Tire and having them shipped to
you?
Patrick
91 VR4
>>> Andrew Clark
<chemist1@ozemail.com.au> 2/8/99 1:44:08 AM >>>
I've been
quoted prices in the vicinity of $345US per tyre for the
original 225/50
Yoko's that are on the car at the moment & was offered a
cheaper
alternative by a tyre bloke today who said I could use 235/45
Bridgestones. I
asked if this different tyre size would effect my speedo
to which he said
"not much"(??!!).
Anyway it is proving difficult to get a 225/50 17
inch tyre for the car
other than the Yoko.
Any suggestions on a 225/50
alternative to the Yoko's or comments on
other sizes etc. would be greatly
appreciated.
Thanks
Andrew
Australia
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Feb 8 08:25:14 1999
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<19990208162506.19685.qmail@www04.netaddress.usa.net>
Date: Mon, 08 Feb
1999 16:25:06
From: Mark Creekmore <mcreekmore@usa.net>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: [Team3S: team 3S: suspension
upgrade]
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Jim,
Go to
http://www.ground-control.com. They have a "tech talk" section
that is pretty interesting and it also mentions a few books to
read.
Mark
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
wrote:
<br>
> ---------------------------------------------
> Attachment:
> MIME Type: multipart/alternative
>
---------------------------------------------
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC
"-//W3C//DTD W3
HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META
content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META
content='"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"'
name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY
bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Assuming you
have all the correct aftermarket
hardware to make the proper adjustments is
the goal to get as </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=#000000 size=2>close as possible to equal weight on each
corner. I
also assume it would be done with driver and some amount
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>of
fuel.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000
size=2>P.S. I know there are several suspension setup
books out there
---- could someone recommene
one.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000
size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000
size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000
size=2>
&n
bsp; &nbs
p;
&n
bsp;
thanks in
advance --- Jim
berry</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
advance --- Jim
berry</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
____________________________________________________________________
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free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
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Date:
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From: Ken Middaugh
<middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Organization: General Atomics - Fusion
Division
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To:
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Tires for
VR4
References: <19990206021608.18247.qmail@www07.netaddress.usa.net>
<36BEB1E8.DD8@ozemail.com.au>
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Hi Andrew,
There are some tire size calculators on
the web. You can use them to
find sizes close to your original
size. I used my own program and
included the results for you. You
will probably not want to deviate too
far from the original diameter
though. The 245/45/17 &
255/45/17 look like pretty close
alternatives while the 235/45/17 is
more than a half-inch
smaller
diameter. If your rims are wide enough, go for the 255/45/17.
Good
luck,
Ken
Revolutions per
mile
|
Diameter
(inches)
|
|
Size
|
|
|
_____________________________
758.02026 26.60630 305
40 17
764.81055 26.37008 265 45
17
767.10107 26.29134 295 40 17
769.40533
26.21260 235 50 17
776.40210 25.97638 255
45 17
776.40210 25.97638 285 40
17
781.13770 25.81890 225 50 17
****
785.93146 25.66142 245 45 17
785.93146
25.66142 275 40 17
795.69757 25.34646 265
40 17
795.69757 25.34646 305 35
17
798.17712 25.26772 235 45 17
803.18292
25.11024 295 35 17
805.70947 25.03150 255
40 17
808.25201 24.95275 225 45
17
813.38538 24.79527 285 35 17
Andrew
Clark wrote:
>
> I'm sorry to bore everybody with this subject,
& I know its been cover
> heaps of times, but I'm running into
problems getting tyres for my VR4.
> I've been quoted prices in the
vicinity of $345US per tyre for the
> original 225/50 Yoko's that are on
the car at the moment & was offered a
> cheaper alternative by a tyre
bloke today who said I could use 235/45
> Bridgestones. I asked if this
different tyre size would effect my speedo
> to which he said "not
much"(??!!).
> Anyway it is proving difficult to get a 225/50 17 inch
tyre for the car
> other than the Yoko.
> Any suggestions on a
225/50 alternative to the Yoko's or comments on
> other sizes etc. would
be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks
> Andrew
> Australia
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
--
Ken Middaugh
General
Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date: Mon, 08 Feb
1999 17:21:30
From: Mark Creekmore <mcreekmore@usa.net>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: [Re: Team3S: Boost
Question]
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Jeff,
I have an HKS EVC
IV. I would recommend not using the learn mode and setting everything
manually. When doing the manual setup if you input a stock boost pressure
that is lower than normal (I used .45) you get a much larger calibration
range. You can then use the offset setting (121-136 on the high boost
mode) to get the boost controller and the actual boost pressure right on the
money.
Mark
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
wrote:
> Jeff,
>
> > I saw maximum boost of about 6 psi
and one of the turbochagers
> > (stock) was brand new. According to
specifications I've seen, the stock boost
> > on that model was
9psi.
>
> This is not dependent on the turbos. My 93'3000GT max out
6psi when I turn off
> the Blitz controller. With the stock boost solenoid
the boost was somewhat
> higher around 7 psi it mainly helps to get max
boost quicker.
>
> > Now, with the boost controller, I can
easily reach much higher boost
> > pressures
>
> Sure, and
you can easily kill your engine over 1.00bars (14.7psi)!!
>
> >
but with the boost controller turned off, I still only
> > see about
6psi.
>
> Of course it does as the controllers solenoid will stay
fully open and the
> pressure goes directly to the wastegates causing them
to open. They start around
> 4.5psi or so.
>
> > I've also
noticed that in order to achive a boost pressure of
> > 13.5 psi, I
have to set my boost controller at 1.10 kg/cm2 (about 15.5psi I
> >
think).
>
> This depends on the boost controller, where it measures
boost and where it takes
> pressure from to drive the wastegates. IMHO,
there is a hose not connected to
> the proper location.
>
> > What specifically causes a reduction in stock boost
pressure?
>
> First, it looks normal for that year. Then an
existing stock solenoid valve can
> cause a difference. Also the preloaded
spring in the wastegate actuators are
> getting weaker over the years but
with a boost controller this can be controlled
> and compensated. I dunno
your boost controller but it is maybe older than the
> most we are
running.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Roger
>
>
-----------------------
> Roger Gerl, Switzerland
> 93'3000GT
TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
>
> Visit my homepage under:
>
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/3000gt.html
>
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Feb 8 09:30:03 1999
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Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 11:38:33 -0600
To:
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From: Wayne
<wala@hypertech-inc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Turbo upgrade
stages
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Hey everyone,
I was wondering what the availibility of
upgraded turbos is.
Q1: How many stages are there when using the factory
exhaust manifolds? It
is my understanding that you can get the 13G's, then
upgrade them to 15G's.
Are these the only options for the factory
manifolds?
Q2: Does anyone build a reliable upgrade kit that includes
new
manifolds/headers? If so, what kind of turbos are used?
Q3: At
which point during the above modifications is upgrading the fuel
system
required?
Thanks in advance for any info you guys can
provide.
Wayne
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Feb 8 09:33:00 1999
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From: George Kuo
<amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: 17in Spyder rims for
sale
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
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Hi,
Sorry to post this non-tech here.. but I
have a set of 17x8.5 wheels
off a VR4 Spyder (or the '93-'94 VR4). They are
chrome.. in PERFECT
condition.. has 255/40ZR Falkens. Give me a private
email if
interested.. thank.
George
3S
#0139
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From:
"Jeffrey Young" <jefyoung@ix.netcom.com>
To: "Stealth -
Team 3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Bosch
Plugs
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:38:23 -0700
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Has anybody tried or have comments
on the new Bosch platinum plug with
the four
electrodes?
Thanks
Jeffrey
92
RT/Turbo
www.omega-sw.com/stealth
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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From: "Barry E. King"
<beking@home.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Bosch
Plugs
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:44:47 -0700
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I have. They suck in our cars, or at least
mine. They lasted literally a
few WEEKS. I stupidly tried them
twice if you can believe that. the first
set was installed by a shop
who put them in even though I specified NGK
double platinums since I
"knew better". They thought they knew better.
When the first
set died thy gave me another set which also died in about the
same
time. I will use NGK and only NGK as I have in my high performance
toys
for the last 20 years.
Autolite platinums are junk too. I used them
once when I could not get NGKs
on a particular Saturday late last year.
They fuel fouled within 48 hours
even though they were gapped at my NGK
settings and the same fuel mixture
and fuel was being used as with the
previous NGKs.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
>
> Has anybody tried or have comments on
the new Bosch platinum plug with
> the four
electrodes?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jeffrey
>
> 92
RT/Turbo
> www.omega-sw.com/stealth
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date: Mon, 08 Feb
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From: RPM Motorsports
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Bosch Plugs
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<000001be538a$b8593980$0500a8c0@beast.kingdom.com>
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The Bosch plugs are essentially the same idea as the
Torquemaster plugs.
You might have seen their ad's in Turbo Magazine awhile
back. We first
started to use them in our Honda project, and some customer
cars. At
first glance the customers were saying the seat of the pants feeling
was
there, and their cars would pull further. But it actuality when we
put
it up on the dyno we were noticing that the plugs were giving
us
problems at the higher revs and top end. We pulled the Torquemasters
out
and put in regular NGK's and the car pulled clean. They were
advertised
as reusable plugs which were easier to clean and a plug where the
spark
would actually arc better since it's coming from multiple points,
but
they didn't work that well. I'm pretty sure these are the same types
of
plugs, since after careful examination of the ceramics portion of
the
sparkplug, you would seem the logo, Champions underneath. And from
my
experience, Honda's ate Bosch plugs up quicker than Champions, so
I
would say the Bosch plugs have gotta be worse.
Stick to the good ol' NGK
Platinium's or in Bob's case the NGK $1.xx
regular plugs which you can toss
out and replace with a fresh set more
often.
What happened to the
Silver plugs was it? Weren't they supposed to be
more conductive?
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Feb 8 10:12:59 1999
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From: "Barry E. King"
<beking@home.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Turbo upgrade
stages (gets longish)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:12:55 -0700
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Here's some info (and opinions) which should answer some
questions or get
you asking more, and possibly elicit some discussion from
others.
One thing to keep in mind if you want to go in stages is that
turbos are not
necessarily the first thing you should consider
installing. When upgrading
turbos the fuel system must be done at the
same time and so the cost can go
up a lot. If going in stages I'd do
this in this order (note that I did not
and wish I had):
1) fuel pump
- minimum 260 lph, bigger for more boost/larger turbos
2) fuel line -
.5" or equivalent from tank to rail will supply fuel for any
realistic
HP output
3) fuel mixture control - VPC, AFC (if you must), GCC etc.
4)
injectors - minimum 550s, bigger for more boost
5) turbos - you may wish to
do injectors and turbos at the same time
any time) all the other junk as
needed - boost controllers, plug wires,
Y-pipe, intercoolers etc etc
etc
>> Soapbox On <<
Brakes! Seriously consider
upgrading the brakes. More power means it is
easier to get into trouble
more quickly. People often don't think about
stopping when in
"more power" mode. I did the brakes first which IMO is
when
to do it.
>> Soapbox Off <<
Note that you will not see any
HP improvement until #3 above and no huge
gains until the turbos go in.
BUT, whewn they DO go in your engine is up to
handling what they will
deliver. Many of us did it either all at once or
backwards. One
of the big advantages of doing it this way is that not only
is the car ready
for more boost but you also know how to opertae the fuel
management system
which is a requirement for larger injectors and bigger
turbos.
The
stock fuel system is marginal for even the stock turbos at higher boost.
The
stock fuel pump is rated at 180 lph and the injectors are smallish at
365
cc/min (or so). If you upgrade turbos even to 13Gs you'll want to
take
a serious look at the fuel system. A lot of people use 550s and
15Gs with
monster boost but if you do the math the injectors are really not
up to it.
The stock FPR is adequate for moderate boost but based on observed
behavior
it will not deliver the desired 60-65 psi rail pressure for 21+ psi
boost
applications.
A 260 lph fuel pump and 550s would be a minimum
setup for moderate boost
levels.
13Gs and 15Gs will bolt directly to
the factory manifolds as they use the
same exhaust housing casting as found
on the stock 9Bs. There are hybrids
that use large impellers on the
exducer side but employ the stock turbine
(hot side) housing. They are
typically Garret compressors. This option
usually requires changing the
plumbing on the pressurized side of the
system -- intercooler piping and
Y-pipes etc. -- since the exducer is larger
than stock.
A TD04L-15G 6
cm^2 turbo is a 13G bored out to accept a 15G impeller. 15Gs
will give
the car a huge wakeup but you'll need at least 550cc injectors for
moderate
boost and larger for high boost. The fuel system will require
upgrading
in the form of a pump (minimum 260 lph) and ideally larger fuel
line.
There are rumored to be 17x impellers available for the TD04L housing
but I
would be skeptical of them until proven reliable since there is
precious
little meat left in the housing when 15Gs are installed.
13Gs are okay
but personally I wouldn't bother with them and go directly to
15Gs. If
you want all out maximum potential and sacrifice some bottom end
you can get
various hybrids or the Mitsubishi TD05-16G. The latter will
require
different headers which are not readily available -- they seem to be
a Japan
only thing at this point. Fabricating them is an
(expensive)
option. It really all depends on the depth of your
pocketbook and what you
want to accomplish.
There is a Garret
"kit" out of Japan but so far it is not available here
just
yet. Maybe Henry of RPM or Chien at Nexus will have some insight
on
that option.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
>
> Hey everyone,
> I was wondering what the
availibility of upgraded turbos is.
>
> Q1: How many stages are
there when using the factory exhaust manifolds? It
> is my understanding
that you can get the 13G's, then upgrade them
> to 15G's.
> Are
these the only options for the factory manifolds?
>
> Q2: Does
anyone build a reliable upgrade kit that includes new
> manifolds/headers?
If so, what kind of turbos are used?
>
> Q3: At which point during
the above modifications is upgrading the fuel
> system
required?
>
> Thanks in advance for any info you guys can
provide.
> Wayne
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Feb 8 10:14:23 1999
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From: "PHorschel"
<phorschel@utah-inter.net>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S:Throttle Position
Sensor Adjustment
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:14:21 -0700
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Hello all,
I recently replaced my TPS(throttle
position sensor) and noticed that there
is some play in the adjustment(about
3/8"). Has anyone messed around with
this adjustment to make their
car run richer or leaner? It would seem that
if you turned it all of
the way counter clockwise the car would run richer
because the ECU would
think that the throttle is opened more and therefore
inject more fuel.
Any thoughts on this?
-Paul Horschel-
--Copper 93 3000GT Twin
Turbo--
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Feb 8 10:43:09 1999
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Hello
Darc,
I believe I still have a problem with my cam
setup. Or should I say I
believe it is not the cam/rockers but a valve
problem. It appears to be an
assembled valve height problem - which could be
a result of improper /
excessive valve or seat
grinding.
I have been sick the last week or so, that has
delayed things a bit, but I
am modifying my micrometer to take some
measurements and get a better idea of
exactly where the problem lies. It
might be a simple as letting the lash
adjuster make up for the difference,
grinding the valve tips, or possibly
taking the head back off and into the
machine shop. I am hoping for an easy
resolution as I'm sure you know this
has been a long stretch for me, over a
year now since the car broke down. I
am no closer to getting the offending
mechanic into court, so I would at
least like to be driving the car.
Luckily, there is
a tech rep that is pretty sharp that helps me when I
can get through to him -
depending on who answers the phone sometimes I am
told I cannot get help
there unless I am a factory tech. But I was able to
reach him Friday and got
some good info from him.
As always, I will get the
list updated to anything new that I may learn
along the
way:)
Steve
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Feb 8 10:54:33 1999
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Subject: Re: Team3S:Throttle Position Sensor Adjustment
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In a message dated 99-02-08 13:14:51 EST, you
write:
<< Hello all,
I recently replaced my TPS(throttle
position sensor) and noticed that there
is some play in the adjustment(about
3/8"). Has anyone messed around with
this adjustment to make their
car run richer or leaner? It would seem that
if you turned it all of
the way counter clockwise the car would run richer
because the ECU would
think that the throttle is opened more and therefore
inject more fuel.
Any thoughts on this? >>
I believe there is alot
more than the TPS in aiding the ECU determining
the fuel/air mixture. At the
very least the Mass Airflow Sensor and Manifold
Pressure sensors are directly
involved in helping the ECU decide on mixture.
Add to that air charge temp
and engine temp.
I would imagine adusting the TPS would impact
the performance, but in
adjusting it alone you will probably find that normal
operation is optimal.
Either way - if you try it, keep us
posted:)
SteveC
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Feb 8 11:03:52 1999
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From: "R.G."
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Turbo upgrade stages (gets longish)
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Thanks to Barry the most is already said and I just throw
in my 0.02 :
In June last year I decided to make a big upgrade with the
following :
(no comments on the GT
Al&&ç%ç*&%)
- Large in-tank fuel pump
(Denso)
- 7200cc injectors
- VPC (AFC is already installed, who knows for
what)
- Huge Hybrid Turbos (close to 20G)
- Portmasters headers
- front
mount intercooler
As Barry stated our fuel system is weak and the
injectors are getting maxed out
just after 14.7psi .. this is Fact 1 !
Also the stock turbo system can produce
much more boostbut is not able to do
this in the lower end as well as boost is
falling off in the higher rpm. But
when running more boost you defintiely need
better fuel with over 100 octane
to prevent heavy knock ... Fact 2 ! Therefore,
installing a larger fuel
system and increasing boost with ANY turbo needs
expensive fuel.
The
large turbos fit to the stock manifold as well as to the new headers (a
Mitsu
part). The compressor wheel housing is soooo big that a custom front
mount
engine bracket is necessary to get them in.
The design of the
headers is good and I'm positive that they will bring an
improvement. But I
don't want to speak about quality and the amount of work
we'll have to do on
them until they are just good enough :((
Headers with larger diameters
will not help a lot if any. Ok I think the turbine
inlet should be somewhat
larger but this is the limitation of the Mitsu part.
The 13Gs are stock
in european cars and the dyno session showed that there is an
advantage from
3900 up to 4950 due to them. The injectors are maybe bigger but
this is not
sure until I pull them. All this stuff doesn't help as I'm also
running pump
gas (98ROZ=94 octane) like Jim and Mike and I also got detonation
just after
1.00bars ! Only cranking up boost from there would finally brings out
the
advantage then.
> > Q2: Does anyone build a reliable upgrade kit
that includes new
> > manifolds/headers? If so, what kind of turbos are
used?
Ok, I got something like a kit but nobody can say if it is reliable
(gulp). Todd
Shelton has the same turbos already installed that will find
their way into my
car but I doubt that he's having aftermarket headers on
too.
> > Q3: At which point during the above modifications is
upgrading the fuel
> > system required?
Fuel system upgrade is
STAGE 2 of the mods for sure ! It is the next mod after
air filter and boost
controller and comes before any exhaust mod (only gutting
the pre-cats
may help).
Regards,
Roger
-----------------------
Roger
Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
Visit my homepage
under:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/3000gt.html
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Feb 8 11:08:01 1999
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From:
"Palamara, Peter" <pala@gwl.com>
To:
"'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Bosch
Plugs
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 12:03:32 -0700
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stealth-3000gt
Yea Jeff I tried them out in my new Infiniti q45 this
weekend. They seem
no different though in power but in a car like that I'm
not sure if I
would. And for anyone thinking the 3000 was hard to change
plugs the q45
is a mountain compared. Took me 7 hrs to change 8 plugs and
plenty of
cuts and bruises :(
Pete Palamara
92 3000vr-4(GTO)
500
hp of Fun
(303)689-4733
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Jeffrey Young [SMTP:jefyoung@ix.netcom.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 08,
1999 10:38 AM
> To: Stealth - Team 3S
> Subject: Team3S: Bosch
Plugs
>
> Has anybody tried or have comments on the
new Bosch platinum plug
> with
> the four electrodes?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jeffrey
>
> 92 RT/Turbo
>
www.omega-sw.com/stealth
>
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Feb 8 11:16:41 1999
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Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
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I realize not many people will reach this level but how
big is to big of a
turbo? Anyone know when the turbo will be to much for the
engine to handle?
Xannieria
3SI #130
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Feb 8 11:36:46 1999
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Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999
14:35:58 EST
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com, stealth@starnet.net
Cc:
Aso8@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Team3S: and I quote (Changed
to AWD DYNO) Major News!
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Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Todd, much thanks.
To
everybody...This place REALLY does have an AWD Dyno!
I just got off the phone
with JC at this place, (7I4 - 842-3338) I forgot to
get the shops
name.
They are actually opening for business 3/13/99 (grand opening) and he
does do
dyno work on All Wheel Drive cars. They are in Huntington Beach, CA
not
exactly around the corner from me, but closer then Europe. Dyno time runs
$150
per hour plus $65. for the tech's time if needed. Sure, I find this dyno
after
yanking out the motor, tranny Etc. But, I'll expect to get to this dyno
in the
not to distant future. For those of you who can go now, the rest of us
will
really appreciate the results.
Hey Roger, we have found one in the
states only about 3000 miles from me.
(grin)
Arty 91 VR-4
In a
message dated 2/8/99 7:26:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Q11981@email.mot.com
writes:
<< Subj: Team3S: and I quote
Date: 2/8/99 7:26:39 AM
Pacific Standard Time
From: Q11981@email.mot.com (Todd
Schmalzried)
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Reply-to:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com (stealth
3s)
March 1999 Road & Track page 149 lower left
"UNDER
PRESSURE R & D:After-market performance product leader. .snip.
Engine,
2WD and ONLY AWD chassis dyno in the U.S.A.! Complete online
ordering.
www.uprd.com (714)842-3338"
Looks like there might actually be an
AWD dyno in the country. I just
thought you guys might be interested. I
haven't called them yet, I'm on a
plane on the way home right
now.
--
Todd
Schmalzried
q11981@email.mot.com
>>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Feb 8 11:39:11 1999
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Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:39:04 -0800
From: "Barry E. King"
<beking@home.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: 6G72
reliability: (WAS: Turbo upgrade stages)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 12:39:04
-0700
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stealth-3000gt
When we talk about big turbos what we really mean is
maxiumum sustainable
boost. The cylinder pressure is really what is at
issue for engine
longevity.
You can kill the engine with the stock
turbos without trying very hard as a
few have demonstrated. So lets
assume no detonation (a tough problem in
itself), proper mixture
etc.
The 3000GT bottom end is VERY beefy with 1993 and after
models. This
includes the NA and TT engines. The rods are very
stout, the crank is an
excellent forging, the stud girdle on the crank is
beefy and a feature found
in very few engines, the block is heavy and thick
which means less movement
due to torsional stress, the main caps are four
bolts (2 bolts for 91-92).
All that adds up to high reliability under extreme
duress ;)
The weak link in a stock engine is the cast pistons.
Changing to true
forgings should make an otherwise stock 6G72 virtually
bulletproof. By
comparison, the 6G72 is built tougher than any stock
American smallblock.
That is comparing a 181 CID engine to a 300-350 CID
engine. I compared a
rod from my engine to a smallblock Ford (302) and
it was immedaitely obvious
which rod would hold up. Even an Eagle rod
(big dollar custom rods) didn't
look much better than the stock 6G72
rod. The 6G72 is very tough.
I have heard (but do not have first
hand experience) that the 6G72 bottom
end is much beefier than say a Supra 3L
bottom end. (Wait for the flames
from the Supra camp on that one -
heh)
I don't know of anyone running 30 psi just yet, but a number of list
members
have run 25+ psi and their engines are still together. I would
wager that
30 psi is achievable without causing immediate failure. How
far beyond that
who knows. As to long term reliability even at 21+ psi,
that's unknown
also. I ran 18 psi regularly with excursions into 21 psi
for a little less
than a year and the crank, rods and bearings that came out
of my '94
(destroyed by detonation) engine were perfect leading me to believe
that
much more boost is realistic. I do not believe the stock cast
pistons will
handle high boost for very long though.
The above is
evidenced by the fact that rod and crank failures not related
to poor
maintenance are virtually non-existant. Rod and crank bearing
failures
can occur but seem to be isolated to 91-92 engines or improper
installation
of the bearings after a rebuild.
Regards,
Barry
>
-----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of
>
MrX2111@aol.com
> Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 12:08 PM
> To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo upgrade stages
(gets longish)
>
>
> I realize not many people will reach this
level but how big is to big of a
> turbo? Anyone know when the turbo will
be to much for the engine
> to handle?
>
> Xannieria
>
3SI #130
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Feb 8 11:45:47 1999
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From:
Kevin Clark <Kevin.Clark@hnz.co.nz>
To:
"'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Tires for
VR4
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 20:50:22 +0100
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stealth-3000gt
> Maybe it's different in Australia but in the rest of
the
> world (as I know it) the stock size for a VR-4 is
245/45-17.
> (245/40-18 for the newer cars.)
Hehe, Australia
is probably a lot like New Zealand in that
we get the Japanese GTO-VR4.
I know for a fact that the
first gen GTO-VR4's came with 16" wheels
using 225/55-16
tires.
I know that some people will state that the
discs will not
fit within these wheels, but maybe they gave them more
room
or used smaller discs :(
Cheers,
Kevin Clark
'91
GTO-VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Feb 8 11:48:25 1999
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Dam, thanks for all that info. I cannot
imagine what a 30psi run would be
like. I was in bob fontanas car witha a 21
or 22 (fogot) run and may i say
HOLY SHIT that car moves
8)
Xannieria
3SI #130
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page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 14:09:28
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From: "Todd Schmalzried"
<Q11981@email.mot.com>
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Subject: Team3S: Re: BORLA: was: Best kept
secret?
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<001001be50c5$3edca6e0$fcd18018@blaze.ne.mediaone.net>
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For those of you still interested in this. I know there
was talk about the
Jegs deal being over, but it's not. You do have to ask
specifically about it
though. Today I ordered the stainless Borla cat back
for 489 (7 bucks more,
so what) plus 10 service. It should be at my house
Wed. I talked to Arron,
operator #252 in case you're interested.
I
know it doesn't help power, but I need 4 new tips and I hate the way
exhaust
only comes out 1 side.
One question for anybody who has installed this
system. They show the same
part # for 91-96 TT's. I have a '91. Will I have
to do any tweaking to get
it to fit?
Thanks
Todd
Marc
Spinale wrote:
>
> After much research, I picked up a Borla cat
back system a few months ago
> for my 93 VR4 -- only $479. $486 at my
door. This was by far the best price
--
Todd
Schmalzried
q11981@email.mot.com
-You "put your 2 cents
in" but only get "a penny for your thoughts"
-Who gets the
change? Think about it. O-
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
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From owner-stealth-3000gt
Mon Feb 8 12:25:16 1999
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I've installed the Borla an its an easy fit
Arty 91
VR-4
In a message dated 2/8/99 12:12:20 PM Pacific Standard
Time,
Q11981@email.mot.com writes:
<<
One question for
anybody who has installed this system. They show the same
part # for 91-96
TT's. I have a '91. Will I have to do any tweaking to get
it to
fit?
Thanks
Todd
>>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Just FYI, tire rack is selling 245/45/17 Pirelli
Pzeros for $199 ea. I had NTB
(previously NTW) price match them, and
I'd imagine that other companies will price match
also, if you include
shipping of course. Shipping equated to about $10 per
tire.
Jason
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
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Paul,
In my opinion, 'tricking' the ECU is a bad way to
adjust engine parameters.
I tried to do this on another car once using the
coolant temp sensor. It
didnt work very well.
Two major drawbacks
that i see right off the bat are, (1) you will be
running rich all the time,
when the engine is cold, it may not run very
good, (2) It may go out of the
specified range at full throttle, causing a
trouble code.
Now, with
that said, go for it! The worst that can happen is you will have
to adjust it
back to spec, right? Although, you may want to adjust it while
holding the
throttle open, so you know that it has enough 'play' in it, and
it wont
physically break.
At 11:14 AM 2/8/99 -0700, you wrote:
>It
would seem that
>if you turned it all of the way counter clockwise the car
would run richer
>because the ECU would think that the throttle is opened
more and therefore
>inject more fuel. Any thoughts on
this?
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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Feb 8 12:57:43 1999
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From: "Nexus
Motorsports" <nexus@alleyesonme.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 6G72
reliability: (WAS: Turbo upgrade stages)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 15:51:13
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Skimming the list today and saw this
post. I'd like to second what Barry
has mentioned here, and add a
little to it.
>The weak link in a stock engine is the cast
pistons. Changing to true
>forgings should make an otherwise stock
6G72 virtually bulletproof.
This is true. Almost all cases of
engine failure we've seen are related to
melted pistons caused by excessive
detonation. The rods are some of the
strongest you'll ever find,
aftermarket or not. In fact, if you call any
reputable aftermarket rod
company, they will tell you that Mitsubishi makes
some of the finest factory
rods and that there really is no market for a set
of aftermarket forged rods
for these cars as well as the DSM cars.
>I have heard (but do not have
first hand experience) that the 6G72 bottom
>end is much beefier than say
a Supra 3L bottom end. (Wait for the flames
>from the Supra camp on
that one - heh)
I'd say that they are very comparable. All you hear
about in the press is
Toyota engines are "detuned race motor" this,
and ultra-tough that. Nobody
ever gives credit to Mitsubishi. The
Supra camp always have the pride that
their engines are made ultra tough,
what they don't realize is that Mitsu
engines are built just as well.
They should think about that next time they
try and put down our
cars.
>The above is evidenced by the fact that rod and crank failures
not related
>to poor maintenance are virtually non-existant. Rod and
crank bearing
>failures can occur but seem to be isolated to 91-92 engines
or improper
>installation of the bearings after a rebuild.
This is
also true. We've only seen one case of rod and crank bearing
failures
on the 6G72 due to anything other than poor maintenance, and that
was on a 92
engine. The fact that the bearings were worn down to the copper
(most
likely due to the lack of engine oil for a few seconds) probably
contributed
to bearing failure, but it wasn't the ultimate cause of death.
Change your
oil every 3,000 miles or less, watch your air/fuel ratio
carefully, and your
engine should live a long and happy life.
Chien
Nexus
Motorsports Import Performance Parts
Specialists
http://www.nexusmotorsports.com
Phone: (301) 631-9210
Fax:
(301) 631-9211
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt
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From: Merritt
<merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: BORLA: was: Best
kept secret?
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If the listkeepers permit such things, I'd like to do a
little market
research...
If I was to produce a replacement exhaust
kit for a 3000GT,
how many of you would be interested in purchasing
it?
Let's say it was a kit consisting of a 3.5 in. cat back pipe, a
Y
connection, two mandrel-bent 3.5 in. steel tail pipes, two
straight
through mufflers (make and model TBD), 2 4-in. exhaust tips,
and all
necessary hangers and clamps. With this kit, you could remove your
entire
stock exhaust system (from the cat back) and hang it up in your
garage.
Target price is $250 plus shipping.
Questions:
Any
technical changes necessary in the specs listed above?
Any suggestions on
the mufflers (SuperTrapp, etc)? Should they be optional?
Should the tail
pipes be configured to allow installation of ANY racing or
straight-through
muffler?
Does anyone offer a package like this commercially? (Tell me,
and I'll buy
it from them and forget this foolishness).
Does it sound
like a good deal (especially considering that Borlas are
$500-750)?
If
I use my 94 VR4 as a model, how many other 3000/Stealth models would
it
fit?
All comments are welcome.
If the response is favorable,
I'll do it.
Respond on list or off to
merritt@cedar-rapids.net
Rich/Old Poop/94 VR4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Feb 8 12:59:59 1999
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From: "Meyer" <meyer2@erols.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 6G72
reliability: (WAS: Turbo upgrade stages)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 15:55:48
-0500
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Right on about the pistons. We
have melted down a few trying to exceed 1.1
bar with 13Gs and stock
fuel. The rods are much stronger it took 20lbs
boost + 75 shot of NOS +
6000 rpm launch to twist and break one of those!
Frank
-----Original
Message-----
From: Barry E. King <beking@home.com>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date:
Monday, February 08, 1999 2:39 PM
Subject: Team3S: 6G72 reliability: (WAS:
Turbo upgrade stages)
>When we talk about big turbos what we
really mean is maxiumum sustainable
>boost. The cylinder pressure is
really what is at issue for engine
>longevity.
>
>You can kill
the engine with the stock turbos without trying very hard as a
>few have
demonstrated. So lets assume no detonation (a tough problem
in
>itself), proper mixture etc.
>
>The 3000GT bottom end is
VERY beefy with 1993 and after models. This
>includes the NA and TT
engines. The rods are very stout, the crank is an
>excellent
forging, the stud girdle on the crank is beefy and a feature
found
>in
very few engines, the block is heavy and thick which means less
movement
>due to torsional stress, the main caps are four bolts (2 bolts
for 91-92).
>All that adds up to high reliability under extreme duress
;)
>
>The weak link in a stock engine is the cast pistons.
Changing to true
>forgings should make an otherwise stock 6G72 virtually
bulletproof. By
>comparison, the 6G72 is built tougher than any
stock American smallblock.
>That is comparing a 181 CID engine to a
300-350 CID engine. I compared a
>rod from my engine to a smallblock
Ford (302) and it was immedaitely
obvious
>which rod would hold
up. Even an Eagle rod (big dollar custom rods) didn't
>look much
better than the stock 6G72 rod. The 6G72 is very tough.
>
>I
have heard (but do not have first hand experience) that the 6G72
bottom
>end is much beefier than say a Supra 3L bottom end. (Wait
for the flames
>from the Supra camp on that one - heh)
>
>I
don't know of anyone running 30 psi just yet, but a number of
list
members
>have run 25+ psi and their engines are still
together. I would wager that
>30 psi is achievable without causing
immediate failure. How far beyond
that
>who knows. As to
long term reliability even at 21+ psi, that's unknown
>also. I ran
18 psi regularly with excursions into 21 psi for a little less
>than a
year and the crank, rods and bearings that came out of my '94
>(destroyed
by detonation) engine were perfect leading me to believe that
>much more
boost is realistic. I do not believe the stock cast pistons
will
>handle high boost for very long though.
>
>The above is
evidenced by the fact that rod and crank failures not related
>to poor
maintenance are virtually non-existant. Rod and crank
bearing
>failures can occur but seem to be isolated to 91-92 engines or
improper
>installation of the bearings after a
rebuild.
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Barry
>
>>
-----Original Message-----
>> From:
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>>
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of
>>
MrX2111@aol.com
>> Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 12:08 PM
>>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>> Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo
upgrade stages (gets longish)
>>
>>
>> I realize not
many people will reach this level but how big is to big of
a
>>
turbo? Anyone know when the turbo will be to much for the engine
>> to
handle?
>>
>> Xannieria
>> 3SI #130
>> For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>>
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>>
>
>For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo upgrade stages
(gets longish)
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Hey Barry;
Enjoyed your post. Real bite and chew on
it information...the kind that makes this the
best 3S group
around.
One comment and one question.
Question: You note the
strong blocks/engines from 93 and up, mentioning 2 bolt mains
on
the 92-91's and some other (?) problems with the latter. Bumber
dude, I'm running a
92 as you know...what can we expect, anticipate, or
converesely, be careful of with the
first of the first generation? No
problems yet-and don't want any!
Comment: The staged upgrades noted seem
to have the boost control and air filter mods
listed last, and fuel upgrades
first. I am inclined to think, as Roger noted, that the
former are easy
mods compared to the others listed, and should prove less than dangerous
if
boost is kept under 1 bar. They're modest and a good bang for the buck. After
that,
it's deeeeeep pockets.
Best
Darc
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
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From: "R.G."
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> I realize not many people will reach this level but
how big is to big of a
> turbo? Anyone know when the turbo will be to much
for the engine to handle?
The bigger the turbo the bigger the lag you'll
get. I'm pretty sure that the 20G
is about too much concerning this. Big
turbos can hold boost on high rpms so
it's a question to what level of boost
you want to go. The higher the boost the
higher octane or any other
detonation prevention you have to go. Assuming going
to 20psi a 16G should be
enough. A 20G is overkill but it's good to know to have
some more reserve
:)
Roger
-----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
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Subject: Re:
Team3S: and I quote (Changed to AWD DYNO) Major News!
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> To everybody...This place REALLY does have an AWD
Dyno!
> $150 per hour plus $65.
Great .... but this is somewhat
expensive, isn't it ??
> Hey Roger, we have found one in the states
only about 3000 miles from me.
> (grin)
Gulp, that's a little bit
far away but a good start !
Hope to see any dyno figures from the States
soon.
Regards,
Roger
-----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
K&N FIPK,Magnecor
wires,Blitz DSBC/gauge/Dual Timer,Apexi AFC,HKS SBOV,
ATR DP/ tespipe,Borla
Cat-back,OZ Mito2 rims,Yoko AVS-Z1,braided brake lines,
Bremsa brakes,Pagid
RS-R pads
Check out:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/3000gt.html
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
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Subject: Re:
Team3S: 6G72 reliability: (WAS: Turbo upgrade stages)
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Hey Barry,
Very good facts that I want to double !
As the rings and pistons were gone the
rest of the engine looked very good
not saying excellent. The car has 60k miles
on it and the walls are looking
like a car with saying about 10k, even with the
broken rings and ringland
!
Today I know that I ran too much boost and detonation killed the parts.
If
detonation is under control up to 20 psi, I'm positive that the stock
pistons
and rings should be able to withstand this.
Also 25psi on a
1/4 mile should be fine but what when I'm running with speeds
over 174mph on
the Autobahn for 20 minutes ??
Regards,
Roger
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
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Subject: Re:
Team3S: Re: BORLA: was: Best kept secret?
References:
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Rich,
> If the listkeepers permit such things,
I'd like to do a little market
> research...
Null problemo, it's of
interest for all :)
> Any technical changes necessary in the specs
listed above?
Due to my experiences a 3 inch inside diameter works good
but the steel should
be stainless and thick, thicker than the Borla to
prevent the damn resonances.
Also, it is a good idea to use a large muffler
with a straight thru design.. The
concept can be still the same as on the
stock part but with better and larger
piping. Louder is ok but the damn
droning the Borla does is unacceptable the
longer I drive it !!
To
prevent any more resonances add two flex sections before the muffler
and
before going to the passengers side.
If you have to add a good
non-droning-muffler, using thicker stainless steel and
flex sections I'm sure
that the thing will hit the $500 barrier. But quality has
its price
!
Regards,
Roger
-----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
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> One question for anybody who has installed this
system. They show the same
> part # for 91-96 TT's. I have a '91. Will I
have to do any tweaking to get
> it to fit?
It fitted without any
problems on the 93 as well and should on the earlier
models too.
Good
luck and have some Ohropax ready
;-)
Regards,
Roger
-----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
K&N FIPK,Magnecor
wires,Blitz DSBC/gauge/Dual Timer,Apexi AFC,HKS SBOV,
ATR DP/ tespipe,Borla
Cat-back,OZ Mito2 rims,Yoko AVS-Z1,braided brake lines,
Bremsa brakes,Pagid
RS-R pads
Check out:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/3000gt.html
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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stealth-3000gt
I think it has more to do with your air/fuel ratio, and
how much boost you
are running, not how big the turbo is. You could have one
person running
the stock turbo at 20psi with no fuel system modifications,
and another
running 20G's at 20psi with a modified fuel system set at an
optimum A/F
ratio. Guess which engine will last longer?
On the other
hand, you could say too big is when you have so much lag, by
the time you get
spooled up, your competition has crossed the finish line....
Wayne
At 02:08 PM 2/8/99 -0500, you wrote:
>how big is to big of a
turbo?
>Anyone know when the turbo will be to much for the engine to
handle?
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Feb 8 14:09:40 1999
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From:
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To:
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Subject: Team3S: manifold
needed
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 15:05:32 -0700
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For anyone who upgraded to the imp or
another manifold and still has
their stock one please email me privately if
you are willing to part
with it and for what price... If you want allot don't
bother I'm looking
for a test manifold for an upgrade I'm thinking about.
Thanx
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Feb 8 14:35:50 1999
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Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 17:35:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Dennis Moore
<stealth@kiva.net>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Turbo upgrade stages (gets longish)
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Is this what a "bi-turbo" installation tries to
avoid? A small turbo to
spin up faster, coupled with a big turbo for
the high end "power"?
Dennis
Moore
stealth@kiva.net
Vital papers will demonstrate their vitality by
moving from where you left
them to where you can't find them.
On
Mon, 8 Feb 1999, R.G. wrote:
[snip]
> The bigger the turbo the bigger
the lag you'll get. I'm pretty sure that
> the 20G is about too much
concerning this. Big turbos can hold boost on
> high rpms
so
[snip]
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
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From: Ken Middaugh
<middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Organization: General Atomics - Fusion
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stealth-3000gt
Merritt wrote:
> If I was to produce a
replacement exhaust kit for a 3000GT,
> how many of you would be
interested in purchasing it?
Rich,
Glad to see you made it to this
list!
I'm sure a lot of folks would be VERY interested. But why
stop at the
cat? Could you also do a (for offroad use only:)) downpipe
that
eliminates the precats and a test pipe to replace the main cat?
It
would be great to have a 'turbo-back' exhaust, yet be able to plug in
a
main cat for emissions testing.
As far as mufflers, it would be nice
to have at least two choices: loud,
quiet, and maybe a third choice
inbetween. It would be great to rate
them in decibels and have the
decibel rating of the stock exhaust to
compare them with, at perhaps a
low (2500) and a high (6000) RPM.
Good luck,
Ken
--
Ken
Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
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http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
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Re: Team3S: Turbo upgrade stages (gets longish)
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Thats exatcly right. Although i've never heard it reffered
to as
'bi-turbo'. This type of system is what the 93+ RX-7's use.
At
05:35 PM 2/8/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Is this what a "bi-turbo"
installation tries to avoid? A small turbo to
>spin up faster,
coupled with a big turbo for the high end "power"?
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Feb 8 15:07:58 1999
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'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'"
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stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Dyno session results !
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 17:03:11
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I found good results in my fuel pump
upgrade. I was having what I thought
was light detination or light
fuel cut above 1 bar in the 5000 rpm range.
It was due to lack of
fuel. I upgraded the pump and it ran much better in
that range.
I also added a FPR .. just trying to squeeze a bit more out of
the stock
injectors (until my new 560's come in) !.
Brian
93 vr-4
SNIP
8<---------
I doubt that it makes sense to upgrade the fuel
pump
only.
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale
Rosso)
> Thats exatcly right. Although i've never heard it reffered to
as
> 'bi-turbo'. This type of system is what the 93+ RX-7's use.
Well, such a system is called Sequential Twin Turbo System. The Supra TT is
the
most typical system I know of. It works with different gates that open
and
closes in different stages. IMHO, a too complicated system. Adding a
boost
controller is not that easy and can cause damage to the second turbo as
the
gates are not operating with the proper pressure then.
Our system is more a "parallel twin turbo" compared to these
setups.
Well, there is no "light" fuel cut. Fuel cut means you'll almost
bite in your
steering wheel when it kicks in. Also the detonation cannot be
heard in that
area so what you felt was a hesitation caused by the retarded
timing.
On the dyno, the A/F ratio was good enough so far and as the IDC
came to 99% the
injectors where at their end.
IMHO, increasing the fuel
pressure does not really mean that you'll increase the
flow rate of the
injectors. They flow 360cc when fully open and that's it.
> It was due to lack of fuel.
> I also added a FPR .. just trying to squeeze a bit more out of
>
the stock injectors (until my new 560's come in) !.
Well, our cars already have a fuel pressure regulator and it is boost
regulated.
To what level have you set the pressure then ? Also, to waht
distance are the
plugs gapped ?
Well, there is no "light" fuel cut. Fuel cut means you'll almost
bite in
your
steering wheel when it kicks in. Also the detonation cannot
be heard in
that
area so what you felt was a hesitation caused by the
retarded timing.
On the dyno, the A/F ratio was good enough so far and as the
IDC came to
99% the
injectors where at their end.
IMHO, increasing the
fuel pressure does not really mean that you'll
increase the
flow rate of
the injectors. They flow 360cc when fully open and that's it.
> It was due to lack of fuel.
> I also added a FPR .. just trying to squeeze a bit more out of
>
the stock injectors (until my new 560's come in) !.